geezer205

Nice looking stuff! You're not the only one who works slowly - I am gradually UV mapping a model of the Nakajima A2N. Are there any aircraft models that you are lacking? I am interested in covering the pre-AVG airwar in China, but there are probably a lot of aircraft that can be used in both periods, such as the Sally or Nell.

Nearly finished. Just needs a few more widgets, like foot rests and lights. Then I can start the mapping.

Got it - thanks.

I haven't checked my references, but I'm fairly sure that the Chinese operated Gladiators - they seem to have operated just about everything else! At that time, China was a patchwork quilt of competing factions, governments, and warlords - bribery was the accepted way for an aircraft salesman to land a government contract. I suspect that was the background reason for the purchase of so many different types of aircraft.

10,371...and climbing. The A2N was a small and simple airframe, so the final poly-count (when finished) shouldn't be too outrageous. Dunno how practical this concept would be for a really large aircraft - such as a Curtiss Condor - but it should work OK for single engine aircraft.

Got some more work done on the A2N last night. Looks like the wingtips are a bit too thick?

Thanks for the info about the model. I had not DL-ed the model, so I just assumed that it did not have multiple maps - the old joke about assuming seems to apply here! Where can I DL the model? Those old, low-frequency radios required long antenna wires - often called "aerials". Below is a multi-view drawing that shows the radio masts and aerials highlighted in pale orange - these should be deleted. The wires that are NOT highlighted are the structural bracing wires.

Would it be possible to obtain the model? I would like to make multiple bmp templates, like First Eagles, to produce highly detailed skins. This would require new UV unwrap mapping which can only be done if I have the model. Also, the Chinese P-26s were not equipped with radios so there would be no antenna masts or wires for a Chinese version.

Let me know when/if you find them, and maybe we can trade stuff? I would love to make new textures for them - I used to be a professional illustrator, and have made textures for a number of mods. Shots below of some work I did for a Call Of Duty mod - most of the shading is painted into the textures, rather than created by the game engine..

Well, I'm still learning the ropes but I have every intention of completing a number of China war aircraft - I think they are fascinating. I am deliberately avoiding the later war years because I love the stuff used in the first six months of the conflict (late 1937) - lots of wheel spats and open cockpits. Once I get the models working ingame I will need some help with FMs. etc. Also, I spend most of my limited free time making this stuff instead of flying and following the forums - is Wings Over Israel a better game system? I have the impression that WOI is essentially the same as First Eagles, but with more modern aircraft and systems. Any suggestions would be most welcome. When finished, these models probably won't perform very well on older computers as I want to push the limits and see how detailed I can make both the models and textures. An example is that I am modeling the scalloping of fabric covering on the models' 3D surfaces, rather than painting the shading into the textures. Two more shots below...

Instead of cluttering up Laton's thread about his excellent 1-1/2 Strutter, I thought it would be better to start one of my own. After a long absence due to real world stuff, I am back learning how to make aircraft for FE. Laton and I are in the process of contacting each other to discuss some collaboration on early WW1 aircraft. I am fascinated by the funky elegance of some Morane-Saulnier aircraft used by the British in 1916: the Type N (knicknamed the "Bullet") and the Type BB two-seater. The Brits operated Type Ns for most of 1916 - they began to gradually withdraw them in the autumn after partially equipping three squadrons for the first 9 months of the year. British Bullets were equipped with Lewis guns, but were otherwise identical to the Hotchkiss-armed Type Ns used briefly by the French in 1915. Operating alongside the Bullets in those same three squadrons was the Type BB two-seater - the Type BB was not used by the French. Interestingly, a version of the Bullet (armed with a synchronized Vickers) and the Type BB were also used in small numbers by the Russians.

Well, the BB is almost finished. Next is mapping and textures. With some advice from Laton and P10ppy, I then hope to load it into First Eagles and see if it works. Is anyone interested in making the FM? (in a couple of months).

No problem. :yes: I was a bit skeptical about the size/shape of the fairing myself, but two different sources stated that the camera - and sometimes the radio equipment (when carried) - were enclosed in a fairing. Considering the lack of fairing photos, and that not all BB's were camera- or radio-equipped, I am tempted to just delete it on the theory that no details are better than bad details. The photo below unfortunately is too small to show much detail, but suggests that there WAS some kind of fairing. The bullet-like shape just forward of the pilot's cockpit, combined with the linear shape above lower edge of the pilot's cockpit suggest a radio installation that has been partially removed. The BB was a small airplane so there was not a lot of internal space for radio equipment - plus, the heavy radio equipment would have been installed as close to the CG as possible.

When equipped with a camera, the installation was located outside the observer's cockpit, enclosed by a fairing, on the right-hand side. The only photo I have been able to find is shown below.

Thanks. I'm pretty much satisfied with the aircraft now - it matches the photos I have and (mostly) matches the best of the two drawings. I still lack information for two items - the cockpit(s) and a fairing that enclosed the photo recon camera mounted on the left side of the fuselage. The fairing shown in the shots above is a WAG.

I have the following refs for the Type N: - Warplanes of the First World War, Vol. 5; J.M.Bruce; Doubleday, 1972. - Article: The Bullets And The Guns; J.M.Bruce; Air Enthusiast #9, Pilot Press, 1979. - French Aircraft of the First World War; James Davilla, Arthur Soltan; Flying Machines Press, 1997. - Early Aircraft Armament; Harry Woodman; Smithsonian Press, 1989. - Multi-view drawings; Ian Stair; Aircraft Archive Vol. 3; Argus Books, 1989. The Albatros Data File is out of print and I have not been able to lay my hands on a copy, though I have not tried very hard. As you pointed out, there appears to be a lot of variation to the Lewis and Vickers gun installations for the RFC Bullets, Type I, and Type V. There is even less info available for the Type BB. Careful comparison of photos to the most common three-view made me conclude that the three-view had a number of inaccuracies. I found a contemporary drawing that appeared to be more accurate, though lacking some details.

Thanks for the encouragement. The refs I have were sometimes detailed about production and delivery, and sometimes vague - you may be right that only a total of 48 Type N's were built. Any chance that you might resume work on your RFC and Russian variants? If so, there is little point in my producing them - I would much prefer to concentrate on the BB and texturing Laton's 1-1/2 Strutter.

BTW, I want to say that I have nothing but admiration for P10ppy's Type N. I can only hope that my own effort is even remotely as good as P10ppy's superb addon. While doing research for the Type BB, I realized that the BB was sorta/kinda just a stretched version of the Bullet. As the BB was mostly used by the RFC (but not the French), and the RFC only used Lewis gun-armed Type N's (not the Hotchkiss gun) I just sorta backed into the decision to also make an RFC Bullet because the two models have a lot in common.

There are only a few authoritative sources for the M-S Type N - I have consulted three of the four most prominent sources and discovered the following: - M-S built at least 24 (and possibly as many as 48) Type N's for the French Aviation Militaire, armed with unsynchronized 1909 Hotchkiss guns. These were used from June/July 1915 until late autumn of 1915, when they were withdrawn from the front. - In September 1915, three Type N's were ordered by the British Royal Flying Corps for operational evaluation. Favorable reports resulted in an order for 24 Type N's in January 1916, with deliveries starting in May 1916. The RFC Type N's were armed with unsynchronized Lewis guns, and served through the summer of 1916 - withdrawal from the front began in September 1916 and was complete by late autumn. - In 1916, the Imperial Russian Air Service took delivery of at least 20 Type I's, an improved version with a synchronized Vickers gun. The Russian Type I's were employed through the rest of 1916 and most of 1917. The RFC also had four Type I's at the front in late summer of 1916, but the French appear to have taken delivery of only two Type I's. Compared to contemporary Allied fighters, such as the Nieuport 11 and Bristol Scout D, the M-S fighters were not very successful - they were considered difficult to fly and the unsynchronized guns were, at best, a stop-gap. The Russians operated them longer than anyone else because of a desperate shortage of aircraft.

Yes, I have flown it in FE and it is truly outstanding. However, it is the French version that was armed with the Hotchkiss MG. The British versions were armed with Lewis guns, and the Russian variants armed with Vickers guns, so P10ppy's model can not accurately be used after the end of 1915 (when the French withdrew their Type Ns from the front).

Very nice Strutter! Like you, I am returning to model-making after some real world interruptions. I'm also interested in the early-war period and have a couple of WIPs appropriate for 1916. While I am still learning how to make models in Max, I have experience making textures for completed models. Could I contact you for advice? In return, I would be willing to texture the Strutter for you. Shots below are of Morane-Saulniers operated by the British in 1916 - they were also used by the Russians so, if time permits, I will also make Russian versions. Geezer

Yep - and double the firepower ain't bad either! :wink, wink: Another guy asked about my info source. The Windsock pubs are widely regarded as one of the better sources for WW1 aircraft info. Their Halberstadt pub states that the only Halberstadt single-seater fitted with a larger engine was the D4 - only two prototypes were built and they were rejected because the upper wing was not in the optimum location. The design basically looked like a small CL2 - obviously it showed enough promise to be enlarged into the excellent two-seat fighter that most people are familiar with. Another comment comparing the single-seat Halberstadts to the Sopwith Pup was a very good observation - both were optimised for their original engines and could not be upgraded without significant re-design.

I have been in professional aviation - and a passionate history buff - for forty years, so I was a bit puzzled by the excellent accounts of the Halberstadt contrasting with it's short service life. As best I can tell, the Halberstadt was simply overtaken by the fast moving techno-race that began with the Fokker Eindekker. The Halberstadt was an immensely strong machine with excellent handling characteristics, but was designed around the German series of 120 hp engines (Argus and Mercedes) and could not accept the more powerful 160 hp series of engines. When compared to the Albatros series of fighters, the Halberstadt was 25% less powerful and had more drag because of the extra struts and wires of it's multi-bay wing cellue. So...even though the Albatros fighters lacked the structural strength and nice handling of the Halberstadt, their climb, dive, and level speed was better. Plus, they carried twin Spandaus. Interestingly, the Windsock publication says that 31 machines (apparently D.5s) were expressly built for use by Turkey as the Halberstadt's many good qualities were considered more important than raw speed in the demanding Palestine theater of operations.

Also, the Windsock data file for the Halberstadt points out that when Von Richtoven had his unpleasant experience with the Halberstadt, he was rubbernecking and flying HANDS OFF the controls! This is consistant with the other pilots' comments about the excellent stability of the Halberstadt.

I'm new at FE, but I like it despite some rough edges that should get smoothed out with time, patches, and mods. I'm a life-long aviation history buff (and occasional modder) so I would like to make a few observations in response to some of the other posts here. 1916 aircraft are definately for the hard-core FE enthusiasts and I love the DH2. Considering the number of 1916 enthusiasts are likely to be small, AND the time and effort required to produce a new aircraft for the sim, why not take a kind of "cost-effective" approach? Instead of producing the obvious compliment for the DH2 - the Fokker E1/E2 - why not devote the time and effort to aircraft that had a more realistic performance and can be used over a longer time-span. The Fokker Eindecker was a very mediocre aircraft that is remembered primarily for it's armament, and was soon withdrawn from service when the Allies introduced the DH2 and Nieuport 11. Other German aircraft were introduced in 1916, contemporary with the DH2, that were more successful than the Fokker and served for much longer (because of their success). While my personal favorite would be the Halberstadt D2, the best use of a modders' limited time would be to produce the Albatross D1/D2/D3 series. They used used fundamentally the same fuselage, armament, and powerplant so it would require less time to produce the necessary 3D models, texture maps, and associated files. Also, the D2 served into 1917 while the D3 served well into 1918, so the models could be spread over many different missions and color schemes, in contrast to the Fokker Eindecker. The same approach could be taken with a number of German two-seaters, such as the early Aviatik and Albatross designs. This would result in worthy opponents for the DH2 that were both historically accurate AND could be used against other Allied aircraft for 1917 and 1918. In effect, more bang for the buck.