cougar_1979

I can't think of any, you seam to have got a god grip on the air to air gunnery :) I don't think so. You would need quite the radar to burn through his jamming and i can't see a radar that big put on a small fighter as the 104. Even if you could find the room for it, it would seriously disturb the center of gravity. Aside from that, maybe a smaller but "smarter" radar would help, but for that you would need latest generation AESA radars. But yould you put that on century fighter???

Good points there! And there is no such thing as unfair, this is war after all

Allright gentlemen, this will be a short exercise in pain.... I decided to fly a few hops in the F-104G against the F-15A, the year was 1975 and we both had air-to-air ordinance. Hop 1. We started at 25nm, i was at angles 15 the bandit was at angels 10. I picked him up on my radar and went down to angles 7 to get a good look up on him. No use i can't lock through his jamming. Someone (probably at the GC) gives me a missile warning. Few seconds later i spot a dark dot on a white cloud at my 12 'o clock high. Half a second later it's a grey blob, another qarter second and it's a Sparrow silhouette..... there is no other quarter as i get blown up.... Hop 2. Pretty much the same right until the missile launch. As i still have the Eagle on the radar i know he's at my 12. I roll away from him and put him on my 3. I plug in full burner and try to spot the missile. As i see the dot i pull a hard break into it and the missile streaks by, somewhere behind me. I get another missile warning, but this time i have no idea where the bandit is. Before i get the chance to pivot around the cockpit i get blown out of the sky. Hop 3, 4, 5......12 I realizie there is no way i can play this game in a head to head encounter. So i get a good radar contact and try to memorize where he is, or put my nose on him while still BVR. Then i dive for the deck and hug the ground. He still gets some missiles off, but as i am very low and very fast, the missile seaker loses me in the clutter and all his Sparrows fail. It's now me and him at 4-5nm, just withing visual range. I pull my nose up to get a radar lock. His at my 12 high and i have a good tally on him. Switching to guns. We fly head on. We both shoot..... Variation 1, we colide midair.....mission over (30%); Variation 2, we shoot eachother with 20mm and both die (20%); Variation 3, we shoot but miss and merge. I go up he goes down. I come over the top, roll in on him and pull. He rolls in on me and pulls. Second head on. WE shoot and either kill each other or colide. 3-a. We miss but survive. I struggle to stay out of his winder detection range. We fight in the vertical. It seams like i can almost get a nose on when he breaks too much, but he always gets just a few degrees more on me and we either pass each other or end up in a neautral merge. I run out of fuel after around 8 minutes of this sh**. Mission over. 3-b, I fly fast and in wide energy circles, sometimes in the horizontal, sometimes in the vertical. But at all times i keep my eyes on him. As he launches his winders i pull into him and shake them. He runs out of missiles and guns me down or i run out of fuel. Variation 4. I somehow get lucky and manage to get the pipper on him before we get within 1nm from eachother and squeeze a long 3s burst. The burst connects and either he expoldes right away or he is damaged enough so i can pull high, go over the top, roll into him and finsih him off with a Sidewinder. Sometime i get a few 20mm holls as well (once i lost my T-tail). This happened 3 out of 12 times. (25%). Here are 3 examples of the hops. At first i was about to upload 2 of the longer ones (when he guns me down, or i run out of fuel), but i figured this would be silly. A good aviator would not allow himself to run out of gass. He would know exactly how many minutes in burner he has in his jet. So the lesson learned is, try to get a pop-up shot on him. If you fail. Try maybe antother vertical reversal and go for another shot. If you miss that use the energy you gained in the dive, hug the ground and bug out for home. You have neither the endurance, nor the lift curve to fight this fight. Ambush and luck are the key factor.

Here is my attempt of the 104 VS 23. I flew the F-104G conversion again, as it seams more challenging to fly..... still not sure as to why though (aside from the buffet and pitchup). Watching few docs on the plane today, it was mentioned that the german version (G) was actually heavier and less weildy then the early air superiority A and C models, so maybe there is some sort of justification for the flight models. Some input from the Zipper sages would be welcomed. I took her up against a MiG-23ML Flogger C this time. I am even less familiar with the 23's, so i have no clue as to what version (of the miriad Soviet variations that were in service) would make for an apropriate aggresor. Turns out, the 23 is much more docile enemy then the 21 or the 17. Faster for sure, but much less nimble and definitely not a good plane in a sustained turning fight. We started as in the previous encounters, 25nm in a neutral position, both in air to air configurations. I wasn't sure if he had any BVR capability so i tried to get bellow his horizon, hopefully thwarting a heads on shot with a little help of the ground clutter. Having no RW of any sort was a bit spooky and i hoped i would be able to see the missile visually and atempt a break, but i doubt it would have worked. As we merged i kept him on my left side and assuming we have similar energy capability i went right for him, initiating a left break. I have never fought a 23 with a fighter that wasn't of the legacy series, so i had little idea as to how this would turn out. Half a turn into to fight (and after bleeding some airspeed) we passing each other at neutral again, so my guess was probablu right, we are similar. So i decide to add a bit of a vertical in my next turn and see how thing play out. It seams i can get into a slight positional advantage, but nothing decisive and definitely not something he is not capable of neutralizing with a bit of a break. I unload to regain some energy and this time i go into a pure vertical. Turns out his break made him sluggish enough for me to get into a good postion to drop on his six. I select the winders and hope for a good tone. Attempting to evade me, he breaks even harder and this makes him even more of a sitting duck. I follow him into the break and soon we are withing 1/2 mile of each other. Unfortunately my winders have a very narrow engagement cone and i have to resort to guns again. The first short burst misses, so let him slide to my left so i can get inside his turn. This time i pull a hard break and i am right on him. He's diving for the deck and i roll after him. As he pulls up i give him another burst. This one misses as well but the next one sets him on fire. 2 more hits and his going down, Splash one!

I installed the F-104 that you mentioned and gave the link to. I took her up a couple of times and as far as the nergy aspects are at stake, she is not all that different. Hoever there are some specifics that are. Namely, her buffet is more pronounced as you drop bellow 350-360KIAS during a hard pull. She also feels somewhat less stable in the yaw. There seams to be a slight increase in the pitch up momentum as well. I fought against a somewhat later version of MiG-21PF i think it was a D. This one has a gun and you can see that immediatly in the way he comes after me. In fact the very first time i plugged the mission we actually had a midair collision as i wasn't paying atention, thinking he was going to come up wide. Here is the vid. Still pretty much the same tactics. With the major difference, this time he tries to maneuver for a kill, which is a bad idea, as his deltas bleed off too much energy too fast in a turn. 2 Yo-Yos and 1 displacement roll later and he's a rocket sled:

I would not be surprised at that. There are quite a few of them to chose from. What would be the F-104 version you would recomend as being the most authentic when compared with the real thing?

That pretty much described the Flanker's behaviour 90% of the time when i fly against it! After reading this i went and tried it as well. Although the bird does not show any exceptional turning characteristics (not more then expected anyway), however its sheer thrust is something to be at awe with. Coming from virtually any energy state, you can simply point your nose high and out fly virtually any oposition in the vertical. It almost feels like you fly mounted on a Saturn V or something :)) It even leaves the Eagle down in the dust. What should be noted is that every energy tactic utilizing the vertical can be countered. There is no such thing as a clear victory path, even when enjoying a large energy advantage. The act of energy management itself is much more important then the pure quantity of it. If for example that MiG-17 was flown by a human pilot (or by an AI script that i've sometimes withessed in those Yak-9s i fight in the F-86) there is my no means a guarantee that he would oblige my ambition to shot him down. Instead of just "rolling on his back and die" there are quite a few alternatives to what he did. For one he could have pulled out of his climb earlier, level off and gain some air speed. This would have allowed him to counter my dive on him in at least two ways. First, he could have executed a hard break at the last few moments and thanks to his superior turning radius, there would have been nothing i could have done, except to try and reposition for another attack. A more offensive minded pilot could have used his preserved energy to pull up on me, threaten me with his guns, again something he could do faster because of his better turning ability. So, just because you have the energy advantage it doesn't mean you are sure to win. Don't let your self be cought in that Boyd-narrow-minded pattern of thinking. It is the AC with the energy advantage that detemines when and how a fight starts, that is true, but it is the AC with the angles advantage that decides how it's going to be fought. Add modern avionics and all spect missiles in the pot and you have even less certainty. That stunt that let me hang inverted at 25000ft doing 200KIAS? I would have made a juicy target for Mike or X-ray, with my afterburner plume against the sky, and airspeed that low. Even more so on my way up, especially cause i lost sight of him. It's just a lucky expolit (as Eric mentioned), that an AI equiped with a gun, is often more aggresive and will risk more to get its nose on you for a shot. Against a another human..... you would usually need some kind of a "tell" he is out of energy, which means you can safely push for the vetical. About the comparisson, you mean an F-15 against the F-104 or a MiG-23 against F-104?

I never had the chance to evaluate the bird's (nor do i have the knowlege base to do so) flight model myself, but when flying against it, i don't actually find it that difficult of an opponent (like say the Mirage 2000). Is it possible that the Flanker's performance is somehow connected with the version of SF2 it is installed on? Or maybe i just haven't flown enough sorties against it like you guys did (especially not with external loads). Generally speaking, within a guns only environment and starting from a neutral heads on postition, i get my nose on within 1-2 full circles, depending on my execution and the plane i fly in. In the early block I F-18E's a simple sustained level turn at 400+ knots is usually enough to get you there in 360-540 degrees. With an F-14A it's even easier (probably because i fly it more). That Su-27 never ran an energy circle i could not match so far, though if you let him come on your six, it is on hell of a task getting rid of. I run SF2 on a merged install BTW. Maybe i should try flying the Flanker in configurations i can find performance numbers on and see how it handles?

Finally i got to fly some of the F-104's out there. I can't tell how authentic its flight model is, i just d-loaded it because it was the most d-loaded version. F-104C. My impression? The thing is very nimble, and if you stay in the high 300's and the entire 400 knots region, it turns quite well. Maybe even too well. It starts buffeting during hard turns in the mid 300's so you it works as a natural "tell" when to ease off on the stick. I dropped the model folder in my NF5 installation and then i found it along with some other 104's there. I wonder if NF5 had them before (i neve looked for them), but there was no override promt so....i guess not? Anyway, for the fights.... the first one is against a MiG-17 and the second against an early MiG-21 (i think it's a C). Before engaging these birds one on one, i flew several fighter sweeps and combat patrols with 2 against many and 4 against many, fighting mostly MiG-17's. In both missions the entry conditions are the same. We start off neutral some 25nm from each other. We merge at around angels 10 and it's enyone's ball after that. We all carry standard air-to-air loads for out birds. My own load is 2 drop tanks and 4 winders, i have no clue what the enemy has, but i saw some tracers when fighting the 17, so i know they at least have a gun. Fight one Starting level at angels 15, doing 400 knots. It takes some time to pick him up on the radar, or for the GC to call him out. The video starts at the point when the GC spots him out at 25+nm and pick up a faint blip some 20+nm. I follow a relatively level intercept course until i can get a radar lock, at which point i start decending in roder to bring my self to his altitude. At around 10nm away the red light flashes and i level my nose......5nm and closing i pull my head out of the instrument table and start looking for him dead ahead. I drop the external fuel tanks. At around 2nm i finally have a tally on the bandit and i bank right in order to avoind a head on merge. At the merge he passes me on my left side and look for him in the rear view mirrors for him to turn across my tail. He has a tighter turning bird, so will probably go for a single turn, nose to nose chace and try to stay inside my turn radius. My plan is let him do it and then turn the other way around in an oblique 2 circle engagement, either pushing for a turning rate fight and going vertical and bouncing him from above. I see him in my left mirror comming in left to right, so i roll left and start my turn. I try to keep my energy up and 1/4 into the the turn i realise i have enough excess energy to press the vertical. I roll level and start pulling, trying to get at least 10000ft on my initial altitude. I am still somewhat at awe of the climb rate this bird demostrates. In just a few seconds i zoom up to angels 20+! At angels 25 i roll inverted and try to pick him up visually, but he is not to be found, so he must have failed to follow me up. I go nose down, inverted dive, radar in boresight mode and try to find a proper angle for a high deflection shot. He's at 20000ft, recovering from his zoom. I complete my split-s and go right on him. I shoot a couple of short burst as we zeep across eachothers flight paths. The second burst connects. He never has a chance to pull his nose on me. I level off and prepare for another zoom. This time i move into a more oblique curve and spot him at my 10'o clock low, loosing altitude fast. I select sidewinders to go for a missile shot in case he tries to escape and just then he crushes into the ground! It seams that burst must have hit something vital. Quite a quick and boring encounter i guess, but i chose to upload it, becuase it shows the general tactics used in the least time possible. The only thing that varies is the angle at which you will allign your boresight for a guns kill. Don't even bother with the Sidewinders.....but more on that in the second flight. Fight two The starting setup is pretty much the same (no big surprise there, as i used the same mission template) ;) The point of divergence start around 6-7nm away as he starts to move across my hud to the right right. This and the later development, makes me belive he has no internal guns, and only rear aspect heeters. I have never seen an AI try to avoid a head to head otherways. I drop the tanks and my visual on him. We are going to merge with a bit of lateral separation, him being on my right side. I slowly turn into him, trying to conserve my energy, expecting to see him cut across my tale at any point..... but he doesn't. I have never fought MiG-21s of this early generation before (certainly not in a century fighter), so this catches me in a bit fo a surprise. An AI that decides to avoid bleeding off too much energy and go for the tightest energy circle available? But i hesitate only for a second. If he doesn't turn into me, maybe i can turn into him. I have over 450KIAS to burn i start my break. At this speed i can pull quite some gees, and i am starting to get some angles on him. I decide to play optimistic for a change and i select winders. However, he decides he is going to break too, so we pass eachother. I try to stay with him and in doing so, my air speed drops bellow 350. The Zeeper starts to buffet, so i decide to unload and regain some energy. Et voila! 2s later i am at 360KIAS and accelerating. The amount of thrust this baby has is impressive. This time i try a more conservative sustained turn approach and there he is at my 2'o clock. I remember my F-14A VS M2000 fight and try to implement the same tactic. Build up energy and then maintain pressure by bleeding it off in short intervals. It works! Two presses later, his right in my boresight. and go my first gun attempts. I am a lousy shot though (and the fact i have the winders selected does not help my gun aiming abilities). I manage to stay with him as he bleeds off though. As i saddle in right on his 6, the unspeakable happens! A missile tone! FOX 2! Nothing...... FOX 2 again..... again nothing..... I figure out these early winders are no good so i try to find the propper lead for a gun kill once more. Several iterations later and this MiG is a fireball. Splash one! What can i say, against a competition of it's era, this bird is very capable and quite the performer. It's also a dream to fly and veru responsove if you keep it fast. She is also a beauty to behold. I just can't get enough of her, from all angles. And flying several Phantoms up to this point, i think even these early Starfighters are generally more to my liking. @Caesar@Eric; when you mention the Su-27, what version of it do you mean? The one incorporated in the NF5?

Loved that snap shot mate!

There probably are, but i have very little drive space and even less time to try them all out, so i usually follow the advice of the more veteran members here on which mods i should try. Reading the link that Do335 posted, i have a feeling that fighting with the Zipper against pretty much anything from that era, would greatly resemble fighting props in an F-86 (BTW, last night i got 4 of them for only 1 of the friendlies damaged-3 were downed by me, before i ran out of ammo, 1 by #4). Stay fast, wide strifing runs, lots of vertical (but not at the expense of too much IAS) and practice the high deflection shots. I flew the F-18E against an immensly overpowered Super Tomcat, and it seams like a good plane. There is a difference in how you fly NAVY planes, VS how you fly AF planes and this falls well into that category. You conserve your energy and bleed it off only in well timed well articulated presses, in which you use your superior lift curve (nose pointing) and pitch authority to keep the bandit under threat at all times. You down him by either cutting into every turn he makes or by forcing him to bleed off too much and then droping on his six. The reasong why you conserve your energy for the most part, is that (in this sim rarely, but a human pilot would) the bandit can push for the vertical if you are too slow and reverse on you. However as long as you are in the high 300's to mid 400's you can follow virtually everithing that flies for the first 2-3 presses and maybe even gun them down, or get a good winder tone on climbing bandit against a clear blue sky.

I would surely like to give it a try, but unlike the cold war era F-4s and F-8s or early post WW2 era jets, i must admit the century series is sort of a blind spot in my overal plane knowledge. I know very little about their perfomance and practically nothing on their combat capabilities. If someone knows a good and faithuful iteration of the 104 though, i wouldn't mind trying it out. I like experimenting with new planes

Energy tactics are almost always a bit harder to grasp then angles tactics, my guess is because they are less intuitive. In every life we are mostly used to 2-dimensional thinking and problem solving, so operating in one plane of motion is almost an instinct. Working in a 3-dimensional environment (or 4 if you take the time into effect- a must for high deflection shots) takes some getting used to. Thus most people favor angles over energy :)

Well...it worked! Sort of. I got 5 of them and 3 were shared kills. I got a purple heart too! Managed to keep my wingmen alive for the most part, by not letting them engage. Ad i flew in wide energy preserving curves they had little trouble following me. I only let them loose when someone was right at my back. On of them did die near the end though .... maybe i should have payed more attention to him. The entire fight was over 30 minutes long, so there is no way i can upload it. Lessons learned, keep your wingies with you at all times and practice more snap shots..... a lot of more shap shots. Snap shots are basicly the only thing you'll get without exposing your tail to enemy fire. And in a plane without a HUD, keeping track of a rapidly closing bandit is to come at him at an off tail angle, lining up for a shot only in the last 1/2 second before you squeeze on the trigger. And i'll have to get used of shoting from all angles and aspects. BTW, i found out why they were so resistant to my fire (aside from me being a lousy shot). If you keep those .50 cals firing more then a 1/2 second or in a very hard pull, they tend to jam. So quite often i ended up shoting with only 3-4 machineguns. Not enough for decent damage i'm afraid. Anyways, this mission has become my favorite workout lately. The fact of it being just a bit random every time i fly it adds up to it. They never arrive at exactly the same time or vector every time i fly it.

In preparation for tthat campaing, i decided to practice some more with the F86. So i flew several random missions tonight and just when i htought i had the hang og it...... i got this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nkwu66iqme1qmcz/Mission%20from%20Hell.MSN?dl=0 Try it if you want. I call it the mission from hell, or "how 8 average YAK-9 pilots can bulldoze over 4 expert F86 pilots any day of the week". Well....3 F86 pilots, but what is the 4th going to do when he's left all alone. The AI just doesn't seam to have a clue as to how to fight fast and high or in other words how to use jets agains small nimble props! Very often my wingmen end up with zero kills. Even when i guide them into the attac pattern, and they keep insisting on turning in the horizontal with the YAK's, at times even spining their planes of the other YAK's dpn't end up shoting them first. I tried zipping across the furball and seting up rally points by ordering everyone to rejoin. That works from time to time, but after a strike or two someone gets killed anyways cause they went low and slow and in the end it's me against half a dozen angry Soviets. And if i don't get killed myself, i often ran out of ammo before i can shoot 2-3 of the resilient busters. Not to mention that no matter how much energy advantage you have, shoting someone with guns, requires at least a dozen seconds of clear unopstructed bandit contact.....something you are not likely to get with 5-6 bandits around you. Splitting them up works sometimes, but even then i could not shoot more then 3 of them, and i lose all of my wingmen anyway....

Indeed, i run the NF5 mostly. It's one of the 4 mods i have installed. When i made my HD partitions 2 years ago, i didn't forsee i may run out of HD space on my system partition. So i can't install more even if a wanted too. Thanks for the recomednation, i will try it (the campaign) as soon as i have more free time. Happy flying!

It's been a busy week at work, and what little time i had i used on my F-14A flight model, but today i felt a need for some retro ACM and decided to kick in a random fighter sweep involving the F-86. As i don't have a Korea maps installed i went for early 50's central Europe. The random number generator gave me 8 Sabers, agains what turned out to be 8 bandits. As i was flying for the pure joy of it, there were no clear objectives and thus no real report to be had. The video starts several minute into the mission as our flight gets jumped by 4 Lavochkin-11's. I felt like being a Me262 all over again, bouncing the poor props using my superior performance. When all of a sudden, one of my squadron got shot! And there they were, 4 MiG-15's flashing in the clear sky. They came to the rescue, and got one of us unaware, but alas, they payed for it dearly. I was expecting a tougher oposition, but as this was a random mission, maybe their pilots were green...... We dispached the 4 Migs relatively easy. Lots of oblique turns to keep the energy advantage and some good old mark I eyeball targeting. Not too many things to bring home from this one....except for 2. For 1, these old Sabers are a real joy to fly. Keep cool, smooth control and movement of your stick and they fly like magic. Easy, light and articulated. I found no vices what so ever. For 2......God bless the lead-computing gunsights! I don't care what kind of tech they use, having one of those, no matter how precise they are, goes a long way to giving you those gun kills! How you like it guys, here is the vid:

Thanks for the input guys!

Do335 and macalena, how would you describe the handling characteristics of the Meteor? I have never flown an ealry 1st generation jet, except for a Me262 and IL-2, but compared to all the piston engined AC there, the thing was really "heavy" behind the stick and you had to use it for zoom and boom almost exclusively. No DACT report for today, i only had some stick control workouts, flying the F-14B against the GodCat. One thing i noticed (besides the fact the radar just won't pick him up in a hard turn, so you have to gun him down almost entirely by eyeball) is that this Tomcat burns through the fuel tanks in no time when you use AB in aboundance! Weren't the GE's supposed to be more efficient when in AB then the P&W's? Or was it the other way around?

After experimenting with the Falklands campaign for several days (and it still crashes sometimes during the loading of the weapons screen) i finally got to fly some CAPs and fighter sweeps. The fighter sweep wasn't really worth uploading, 4 on 4, Harriers VS A-4's and it ended uneventful. But my CAP was a novelty. The random seed decided it should be a night fligh and never had those so far, except one at my very first days in the SF2NA. We started off more then 25nm apart at angels 10. The GC called bogies at 12 'o clock and i picked them up on radar soon enough. We were a 4 ship formation, packing 2 Limas each and some fuel tank. I gave the element leader the order to attack air and proceeded on an intercept course. As this was my first night op, i decided not to wait for a merge and try to get an early IR lock from a forward aspect so i switched to missiles while still BVR. The fact that GC called bandits and clear to engage, minimised the chance for a blue on blue. At 15nm i ordered my wingman to drop the tanks. At 7nm i got a tone in my headset and at 6nm i went for my first FOX 2. At 4hm, while missile no1 was still on its way, the seaker picked up another signature, and at 3nm i went for another FOX 2. Just then i got the first splash. A Mirage III it turnes out, as we go into visual range. Few second more and it's another splash. The element leader launches a FOX 2 as well. Just as i see the first afterburner plume infornt of me i get i missile warning and break left, kicking flairs. Element leader launches the 2nd FOX 2 and is winchester but it's splash 3. #4 goes for FOX 2 and soon enough it's splash 4. Meanwhile i pick up a contact on my radar, right aheadand it's another Mirage. As i move in for a gun kill, i make an aweful overshoot. In the dark i have a very poor estimation skills and i will struggle with my gun kills for the entire flight. It turns out, i was going for an allready hit Mirage that was loosing altitude fast. I think i should call it a night and go home, so i order rejoin of both elements. As i set up for a course home, i get a radar contact some 20nm away, dead ahead. This being a sim and not a real life, i decide to play cocky and incestigate. At 3nm we get a visual, it's another flight of Mirage IIIs. I order my entire flight to engage and move in for the merge. Missiles start zipping in the dark and as i kick flares i pass one of the Mirages at point blank range. Finishing my right defensive break, then reversing into a lefthand sustained turn to reengage. Wingman launches FOX 2 and goes winchester. It's splash 5. I order gun attack and proceed to close in with the bandits. Switching to guns, radar in air combat mode. This time i try not to overshoot, which leads to me taking some silly long range snap shot that have no chance of connecting what so ever. I throttle up and move in closer as something flies right by me and i hear a missile warning. I pull some lead, open fire, and it's splash 6. #3 goes out of ammo. I sweep right to find another bandit. At 4 'o clock i pick up 2 contacts and lock on to one of them. It turnes out i locked in a friendly, as the right one is a Mirage, hot on his tail. Going after them i must have picked up a bandit on my own tail as well. I go into a hard left hand turn, trying to stay with them, when i hear a missile launch. I think it's on me, so i start releasing flares, but i'm out. Time to pray and hope the break will help me evade. Turns out it's the other Mirage, shooting at #3. And #3 is down! That break seams to have lost the bandit on my tail, so lock the throttle in full power again and go after the bandit ahead of me. As i close in i start taking snap shots, but in the dark it's a total mess. Not until i see the hot exhaust point right ahead, do i score a hit. Splash 7. In the meantime, someone must have got the 8th bandit as there are no longer any contacts in the air. End resault, 8 bandits down, 1 Harrier lost. Lesson learned....i don't want to fight in the dark. I t sure looks pretty, especially when the AAA's light up the sky, or you see burner plumes streaing at trans sonic speeds all over the place, but ut's just too claustrophobic for my taste. And without a radar, it's almost impossible to sort out and spot the enemies.

Hey, lads. I installed this and it all works fine except when i go to the Falklands/Malvinas map. Then everything crashes (total freeze). Do you have some idea what i messed up during install? Slight correction, it crashes if i try to fly the Sea Harrier FRS on the Falklands map. It crashes right on the load menu, before i even get a chance to go to the ordinance screen. It works with the Mirage and other planes though. The harrier works on the Desert map....

Thanks mate! I'll look e'm up.

This is a bit of thematic DACT. I was thinking of the Microprose's Dogfight 80 years of Aerial Warfare and one of my childhood's favorite jets, the Harrier. As i don't have a Falklands theater installed (does it even exist for SF2?) i had to improvise. In the lack of a Royal Navy Sea Harrier i used the early AV8, armed with 2 Sidewinders. The enemies are not Mirage III but central European MiG-21's. This is my first time flying a plane without a radar and computing gunsight in SF2, so my skills are a bit clumsy. GC calls bogies at 20nm and i adjust course for intercept, just as we get another call, this one at 10nm on our right, 1 'o clock. I order element 2 to attack air and we merge to engage. At first i can't see them against the ground, so roll around to scan the environment. As i do, i get a radar warning and someone yelling "missile launch". Trying to launch some flares.....no luck......great this planes have no counter measures. My Mk I eyeballs don't work properly, so i call on the GC to call the bandits for me. And there he is, Tally-ho, MiG-23, 10 'o clock low. Rolling in on him and it's Fox 2. Apparently there is a bandit on my six, but i am staying with him for now. The first heater misses. Fox 2 again and it's splash one, just as one of the element 2 bites the dust as well. The other one is just ahead, 12 'o clock, but i am out of missiles. Trying to get my wingman to attack him, it's a no go, he seams engaged. I will have to fight him myself, no radar, no gunsight, the old fashioned way. Giving the ADEN a short try, to see if i can descern the bullet drop. I close in on him with a bandit on my six, and with a lot of extra closure. Just as i am about to overshoot, i get a short burst on him, from point blank range. Rolling on my back and trying to get a visual on him, to see if he's going down.....no such luck. He is still up. Going into a high Yo-Yo, to bounce him from above, but as i do, he starts losing altitude and drops in the woods....splash 2. Bandit #3 is 1 'o clock high and i order my wingmen to attack him. This one's MiG-21. As i turn right to stay on him, i see one of his buddies and attempt a snap shot at him. No contact. Rolling back on bandit #3. #4 must have gotten behind me in the process, but we are turning so hard that his missiles can't track. One of my wingmen gets off a Fox 2 and shoots down a bandit. Splash 3! Meanwhile i am into a short rolling skissors adventure that ends up in me missing a few good shots.....where is a computing gun sight when you need one!? He dives and i go in after him. As he levels off and breaks hard left, i set my boresight on him and squeeze the trigger. Some of my tracers hit, but apparently not enough for him to go down. I go into another Yo-Yo....and i see we are not alone. One of my buddies is in pursuit as well. As he pulls up i go right behind him, so close i can see his exhaust upclose and personal......and i still manage to miss.... Setting up another attack......missing agian. Finally he goes in a steep climb, i follow and get a good low aspect of him. 2 Short burst....and the ADEN's fall silent... The drum is empty.... I order my wingmen again, and one of them has a Fox 2 down his pipe in no time. It's splash 4! Just when i think this is all over, i get a missile warning. There is a 5th bandit somewhere near by. Wrong, there's one more, but the other wingman goes winchester as he splashes #5. No we only have the last bandit to worry about. GC call in mission complete, RTB but i am greedy for another kill. GC calls him at 4 'o clock and i go after him, while my wingies try to gun him down. For some reason they all miss eve though he is flying streight as an arrow. One by one they run out of ammo and just as i am about to call RTB, my #2 does something very brave.......and rams the MiG! For some silly reason, the Mig continues to fly while my wingman goes down in flames.......... I call it a day and in the end it is 2 primary targets destroyed and 3 aditional targets destroyed, with 2 Harriers lost......and it could have been one. This one will give me nightmares for a long time.... But i love the Harrier. Do you guys know of a good Sea Harrier out there? And did you know if they ever used their cannons in air to air?