OvS

Go away Bubi!! Wrong war! What is life without a little fun speculation. Must we be so factual all the time. If we didn't say 'IF' then we never would have landed on the moon. I say Voss was the better pilot. MvR would never have lasted in a 6-v-1 encounter like Voss did. MvR had a hunting style, or stalking if you will. Always seeking advantages. Voss on the other hand flew his planes to the limits, forcing you to make mistakes based on what he knew about your planes. They both were superb pilots, but head to head, I'd bet the house on Voss. OvS

His signature also looks like that from an older man, meaning, his script is not as fluid in the turns as you might expect from a younger/stronger hand. This could have been signed later in his life, perhaps when he was with Eastern at some kind of opening day display at the museum?

tttiger, you don't have to worry about tapping on badges... I take no pleasure in reminding anyone who I am. This is a privilege to me, and I really enjoy it. Also... did you notice that MK2 is the owner of the site? Nothing better than 'pickin' a fight' with the owner of the bar. That'll get you noticed. MK2, OK, PM sent... Rickety, what is a debate if there is no one to debate. It was an absolute pleasure! You guys countered everything I offered with solid facts and references! A beautiful discussion! Trust me, they'll be more of them. Thanks. :yes: All the best, OvS

I'm with Olham, Udet all the way! From 1915-1918 and pre-WWII. Airshows and all. Or Charles Nunguesser! OvS

I just wanted to thank the gang for a fun time last night. I popped in just to see what was going on, and to give the new BHaH MP a try. It was certainly a blast for me. The flying as well as the company. The MP side of OFF, although not the size of RB3D, I felt was more fun. Not being biased, but there was more atmosphere, more action and overall a deep experiance than I ever had with RB3D MMP. Balloon busting was a ton of fun, and the intercept mission brought back some great memories from my Jasta 23b MMP days. Thanks fellas. I'll be around whenever I can. Please, those that have not tried it, do so. It's easy to get started, and in no time, OFF is alive with you and your squaddies! Great stuff, thanks for having me. Let's do it again some time! OvS

I would like to point out that I appreciate the passion you guys have on the Frank Luke issue. No doubt, I am not a man of a big ego and certainly accept when I am either wrong or beat at a debate. Perhaps my past perceptions of Luke are vastly off target, not having read anything solid, meaning anything dedicated to him and his life only, jaded my opinion of him. Probably NOT the best platform to stand on, but I did none-the-less. No doubt, after reading as many posts that you all have read, I am wrong. So I'll head to the Library and pick up some of the books that have been mentioned and read them. It is sad that he only had a 2.5 week run at glory, but when you are reckless as Rickenbacker mentioned about him, that's the price you pay. Thanks again fellas, this is more proof of to the calibur of people we have around us and in this community. All the best, OvS PS... tttiger... being a moderator does not mean I can't enjoy the company of the people I so do respect and appreciate. Being wrong is part of life, and it make the conversations so much more deeper and detailed. I don't mind it, so neither should you.

OK!! OK!! I'll read it!!! Maybe I've read too many books about German aces... who knows... OK... I'll read it. Most of the stuff I've read in the past, as I stated before were columns, and books that touched on a bios of each pilot. Nothing I've ever read about him was strictly written on him and him only. So maybe the opinion of the author's I read at that time was not in favor of him, which did not help build mine... same for Fonck. You also have to imagine this was as far back as almost 20 years ago when I was in college and just out High School... then stuff on the internet while researching pilots for my Hell's Angels patch. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't make me have a love for an American hero than anyone else. BTW... it was standard practice put into place after WWI that many airfields all across the USA were renamed for WWI aces. In fact, Lufbery field in Long Island has since been recovered as a Nassau County park and renamed Cedar Creek Park. Roosevelt Field, named after Quentin is now a shopping mall. But your right, maybe I am being a bit too harsh. Sorry if I offended you in any way, it was not my intent. All the best, OvS

I think so... war can do those things to you. Their meeting shows the type of men Udet and Fonck were after all. Gentlemen off the field, but ferocious competitors when the 'game' was on. OvS

Udet vs Guynemere... absolutely! Honestly, I think Guynemere might have had the edge. Tough to say. Udet's superior flying skils, in a slower plane, verses Guynemere's paitence and accuracy in the Spad. Wow... imagine if Udet's guns didn't jam? How about Collishaw vs Allmenröder? Jeeze... All this talk about Luke and other WWI aces is better than debating who was the best Yankee? Ruth or DiMaggio or Jeter or Jackson or Munson .. or . .and on... and on. Love it! OvS

I dont' know... I like Collishaw, he looks like a cool guy. Let's see then... it would be Voss, MvR, Mannock, Fonck, Bishop, Udet, Collishaw.

Really, no matter what plane you have that might have a strength against another... if you have many of the weaker planes to fight against you being solo... you're going to die. You could take the Dr.1 vs the SE5a and have the Dr.1 in a victory over the SE5a hands down. But dealing with 12 machine guns (6x2), six planes flown by ace level pilots, and you in a slower plane... his superior flying skills are what made the fight last as long as it did. Had Voss survived the length of the war, he would have been the top ace over MvR. MvR would have racked kills like crazy in the D.VII. So as a total hypothetical, Voss and Mannock surving the war... and Bishop's kills being truthful... Top six: Voss, MvR, Mannock, Fonck, Udet, Collishaw. OvS

Try Amazon.com or even the bargin bin at Best Buy, or Staples. Seems folks have been scarfing them from those locations. I got mine on Amazon.com for 9.99 USD

No, the 3.1a patch is really for CFS3. It's patched some gauges on certain planes. All you need is the 3.1 patch. OvS

Um... well.. yes, but really, I don't think that's any reason to be 'lucky' to die. Regardless of the path that Germany took after WWI. If one certain Austrian pee-on in the trenches had died as well, the whole WORLD would have been in happier times as well. As for Voss, I agree 1000% as well. A true pilot by definintion. He knew his plane as well as knew how to fly it. A pilot that knows how to fix his plane, is a pilot that knows how far he can take the plane. There is little to be said about how that situation was going for him. I think he knew he was in a battle he could not win, seeing who he was facing, but yet, he took them on and did his absolute best to leave them with something to think about. If it were 4-on-1 or 3-on-1, I think Voss would have gotten 2 of them. But 6-on-1 verses the best England had to offer, was simply too much for any top ranked pilot. Also... I know I'll get heat for this as I am getting heat for my Luke comments, but I do often wonder if MvR was the best true fighter pilot of WWI. Personally, I'd take Voss, Fonck or Udet over MvR just purely based on flying skills. Tactics, MvR was a hunter, and his methods used were than of one, but as a pure fighter pilot? I wonder. Judging by how Udet could toss his plane around at air shows, or how Voss could take on 6 EA's at once, and be called a 'ghost', make you think about the level of skill and understanding these young men had. OvS

Good points, but it still doesn't change my opinion about Luke. I think Raul Lufbery should have the same focus and attention that Luke seems to get. That guy to me, is a hero. Some other aces that were superb Balloon Busters...courtesy of The Aerodrome http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/balloon_busters.php As you can see, Luke ranked 9th. This is the same arguement that has been made about MvR being the best fighter pilot in the sky, verses Udet, Fonck, Guynemere...etc. It's the kill list that you have to look at. Are they shooting down 2-seaters, or 1-on-1 aerial combat verses another scout. I have my opinion about Luke, even reading the book might not change it. To me, it's as was already stated before, a bit of American folklore that we NEED the hero, the outcast, the underdog for some reason, meanwhile, in the corner sits Lufbery, a guy that was part of the Lafayette Escadrille from day 1, and saw more action than any other American pilot, based purely on him volunteering when the USA was not even at war with anyone. My facts and opinions were purely based on information written in books that I've read over the years and other stuff across the internet, mostly because nothing solid was ever written about him. Who's fault is that? Not mine, I don't write books for a living. I guess it's something that many other military writers such as Franks, and countless other authors did not feel the need to touch on. Maybe that'll change if I read the book. But whether I'm right or wrong on Luke is really my opinion, and it's not based on my just wanting to be wrong. Just like Bishop, many have questioned his truthfulness about his victories. Why a guy would have to go through such great lengths to get confirmation on kills, especially Balloons that explode as bright as the sun when they do, is beyond understanding. Did Rickenbacker do that? Lends one to imagine that he did not have a believable personality from the start, or maybe he was narcissistical? I don't know. I'm not a doctor. MvR did it as well, but he had reason to, after 20 kills, 30, 40... I guess you get used to doing something. I don't know what posses anyone to do that, it's kind of grim. But MvR was a hunter by nature, so maybe it was like displaying a Boar's head? When the price comes down, I'll read the book, or even rent the DVD from the library. I'd like to see it. On a side note... considering I am American, I do love a hero... underdog whatever (I actually have a B/W picture taped to my locker door of Joe Namath tossing a bomb, while he is in mid-air, during a Miami game), it's just that until you have read the book "The First Day on the Somme" by Martin Middlebrook, or "Bloody April/Black September" by Norman Franks (and others), you'll see what I mean about heros and what it really means to be one. To me, it's not the guy that wastes important squardon time driving around asking people to sign personal witness accounts, or driving to wrecks to salvage parts from a recent victory to re-assure someone that you really did it. To me, it's about the little guy whole kisses his cross, jumps over the line and runs out to his death simply following orders from his CO. So be it as it may that I am wrong about Luke, I have my reasons. The poor bastards flying the 2-seaters that go down in flames deserve the credit of a hero as well, but don't because they are considered fodder. I've been to the cemeteries, and read the names and nameless. A guy with 10 Balloons popped single handidly, 4 shared and 4 aerial victories doesn't give me the same feeling as a guy I crouched down in front of, who was a CMOH winner for bravery. http://www.webmatters.net/france/ww1_bony_usa.htm Scroll down to Turner, he's from New York (nice!). I have my own picture of his headstone at home from when I paid my respects to him. Why not write a book about his last 'flight'? All the best, OvS

Yeah... on my BIRTHDAY no less!!! 23 Dec 2012. Nice... what a way to celebrate!

Guys, I'm OK with this thread. It's a good one and merely points out something that we will all have to deal with in the very near future, regardless of playing OFF or RoF. I had no idea the problem would exist to that level. I had heard of it before on CNN, but never really gave any thought to linking it to any specific games, or types of games. It is an important subject that will no doubt be pushed aside until it really start effecting people. OvS

Gents and Lady, I am in a conversation with some of the other CombatAce Admins and Mods and was asked if someone from the OFF Community would 'guest' review OFF for the CombatAce website. I think it's a great idea, and we certainly could use the exposure. Rather than me send individual PM's and beg someone to find the time for this, I decided this would be better. Qualifications: 1. Must be UNBIASED!!! Even if you love the game, it must be as unbiased and fair as possible, pointing out the good and bad, and weighing them against one another. 2. Must be written well, descriptive and informative. Not a one paragraph 'wow, nice' or 'this game sucks, burn it.' 3. Please provide accounts, game experience, descriptions of evens, and again, unbiased, flying for either side, both, whatever. 4. Must be someone with a good background and experience with other sims. Flight Simulator series, IL2, CFS3, whatever, as long as this is NOT your first sim. 5. Must fly a few of the crates, some QC missions, Campaign of Fighter as well as 2-Seaters.... and provide pictures. :) If you are interested, please PM me. Serious inquires only. This review will be posted on the CombatAce website for all visitors and members to read. You are not representing the OFF Community, you are representing your opinion of OFF, and what your thoughts are. Please, only serious parties interested, and once you agree, we hope you see the project through. Those that have done reviews are welcome as well, but not using the same review as done previously, it must be a new one. I will keep this open for the weekend, and then simply pick from the applicants who are interested. This is not a job, a competition, nor is there a prize. It's more of an availability thing and it's easier for me to ask this way. From there, you I will pass you on to the CombatAce team as to what they want, and how to get it done. Thanks, OvS

Do you submit these to the Aerodrome.com? You should, as many of the best WWI/WWII artists have galleries there. :) OvS

Yes, the Oefag Alb only flew on the East front. I asked Pol about making one and he said it could be done, but it's way, way in the back of the shed. OvS

Guys I am willing to help you whichever way it takes and you know that. Just tell me what you need, or how I can help. If you want, create a new thread and title it what would fit best (as I really don't know) and I'll be happy to tack it on to the top so all can see it. OvS

CamelJockey's avatar rocks!!! If I had seen that one first, I would have put an Iron Cross on him and used it.

Beleive it or not, I already tried this. One of the members from Avsim was supposed to do it. He was waiting for approval from Avsim to purchase the game. But as you probably already know... Avsim is gone. We are also looking into other areas as well. But for CombatAce, I'd like it to come from an avid WWI simmer. OvS PS.. thanks.

Yup, that's me. That SOB Allmenröder bumped me off of the stool I was standing on just as they snapped the picture. The CO insisted they use the picture, and airbrushed me out of it as I looked all blurry and had my back to the camera. Damn! Soon after that photo was taken, MvR asked that I be transfered to Jasta 23b, as I was too 'rough around the edges' for the boys in Jasta 11. I dunno, at the time tossing a pissed-off ferral cat onto Kurt's bed while he slept seemed like a good joke.