Tamper

Unfortunately, the majority of bad motherboards I've ever seen will show those same symptoms: Power comes on, fans spin, but nothin else. Note this isn't a 100% guarantee the MB is bad, but it's often not a good sign. I'm sorry to persist, but you weren't specific: HAve you tried booting it with *everything* that isn't absolutely necessary unplugged/disconnected, as well as clearing the BIOS? I'd also try pulling the whole thing again, on the chance you may have done something wrong this time that is correctable. The symptoms changed, so that's something of note. Besides, the worst that could happen is it does the same thing; you're no worse off for the effort and you might happen across the problem. As a side note, if the memory has ever been removed or re-inserted with the power supply connected to power at all, that's a sure-fire way to have killed a MB (Not at all to find fault, dear friend, just to maybe try isolating what happened). Some folks don't know this, and are in the habit of doing these things without unplugging power - and the funny part is they get lucky a number of times...my brother did the same thing. The reason for this is many motherboards often maintain a voltage ("VSB" or 'stand-by' voltage) on the memory, for a feature like suspend-to-RAM to work. Something else I thought of: Even if this machine contained all your valuable work, if you saved it to file(s) on your hard drive, it's still there. So, even if this machine won't boot, it may take some special arrangments, but you can get the files. Basically, all you'd need to do is connect that hard disk to another machine and copy the files off. If you have no way to do that yourself, I'd bet some fellow OFFer would help - I'd be happy to, myself, just that shipping would be involved. I hope things work out, in any event.

One reference I've just now seen indicates that the 2-1-1-1 beep code says the CPU initial speed setting failed, FWIW. Not very helpful or encouraging, huh? <sorry> If you're not completely uncomfortable doing so, another idea is to clear the machine's BIOS - but this does require a certain level of comfort dealing with the jumper to clear it, plus changing the settings back from default after clearing. As above, if you're careful and do it properly, it's not at all likely to harm anything or keep the machine from booting (unless something has already failed). Edit: A tip-o-the-hat to VP who has already described the BIOS clearing idea. Well done :)

Believe it or not, it's hard to find out what those codes mean :( I don't think they are in the manual, far as I could find just now. If you know who wrote the BIOS, it would be easier. There are quite a few web sites that list beep codes from the different BIOS vendors (AMI, Award, etc.). All that failing, (with power UNPLUGGED, not just turned off) I'd disconnect/remove all the cards and drives that aren't needed to boot the machine, then carefully reseat (remove/replace) all the memory sticks and the video card. That code is either video or memory, I'm fairly sure. You can try swapping sticks of memory in sets of two as well. As long as you do this reseating etc. with the power disconnected, and you're careful when un/plugging, it won't hurt anything any worse than what may have already failed. HTH

Nice, very nice :) Now, is it just me, or does this show a definite increase in the visual 'damage modeling'??? That really looks incredibly detailed - and incredibly good!! WTG, OBD!

And of course, now he himself has closed the thread - saying he apologized...funny, I see no such apology... What a...so-and-so *whew* Sorry folks, like others above I am just livid with this individual and all his crap right now. EDIT: Whoops, on carefully searching I did find where he changed his stunning remarks (though I'm sure it was more an attempt to osbcure than anything else). And he does go on to apologize, but only with the caveat that it "...got the intended response which after two years of getting beat up and villified is fun to do on occasion". Get this, he's not apologizing because he made a totally stupid and inappropriate remark...he's saying "Sorry if the trap I laid was so clever that you all took it too seriously"... Now do any of us really believe his original comment was actually intended - all along - to 'draw out the haters' or whatever? Folks,I submit that the man is adding insult to injury, implying that you are all too stupid to see through such a lame-a$$ excuse. Un. Freakin'. Believable.

It is a shame, but it's not a surprise. The only thing worse than Jason's attitude is his absolutely dismal customer service ethic. The man clearly believes he is owed some sort of God-like status in the flightsim world, and there are people from here to yonder on the web who know what I mean. I think someone above said it well by saying [sic] he has a huge grudge that RoF hasn't made him rich. He actually believes RoF was supposed to make his name legendary - a genuine delusion of grandeur. True to form, he suffers persucatory delusions as well. He claims he/his team are the only Devs who communicate well with their customers...first of all, the folks with OBD have done just fine right here; secondly, it's a bit if a loose interpretation to say that you are good at communicating with customers when most of your (very terse and often rude) answers consist of "We can't do that," "Never going to happen", "That's not possible", "Not in the cards"...followed by assertions that we (as paying customers) have no expectation to anything. It's been proven several times that what he says is "impossible" is actually not likely to happen because it doesn't fit in with what *he* thinks should happen - as opposed to it being technically impossible, as his response implies. (Example, 777 still maintains RoF's connection requirement was never about DRM, but was necessary as an integral part of the development itself, which could not be changed because it was part of the "core". More recently, they've trumpeted about getting rid of the online requirement - even though they haven't done so, completely. Now, if it were this 'core' part of RoF, how could it be removed without breaking the sim? That's what they said; can't get rid of it, it's a necessary part of the game design). He lies, and he's been caught and called on it. Catch him lying, and (just like the thread referred to above) he will attempt to evade by claiming he was joking, or that he's being attacked personally (again). It's amusing and quite interesting to note that which tact he uses can be determined by which group is at hand. Normally, he's in a conflict with an individual, so it's the old "Personal attack". In the case of this thread, there were many people there, even some RoF fans were shocked by his comments - so he goes to the "I was joking" tact (and even tried a side of "I did it to draw out all the Jason haters"). But that failed, too, in this case; it was clear no one was buying it. If he's pressed - like this thread, where he finally realizes he's clearly screwed the pooch - he'll post some sob story about how we don't understand or appreciate how hard he has it...well, I don't give a damn. I didn't tell him to go into business for himself - he wants to be known as 777 the Publisher, but then cries 'personal attack' every time anyone disagrees with him or calls him on his megalomaniac BS. My relationship with Jason is not personal, so there is no 'personal attack'. I paid his company for a product, which I have a number of concerns with, and his company doesn't respond to my concerns as a customer. He routinely justifies not responding to customer complaints - even legitimate ones - by saying they (777) cannot "please everyone". He evades straightforward questions, but claims he communicates because he provides vague, non-committing responses (hint: Not an answer, folks). Even in this thread tonight, we had to endure his being merciful enough (rolling eyes) to answer 10 questions (which the fan squad assured us were already answered anyway)...go read the 'answers'. These aren't answers...these are primarily "I don't know", "We can't say", or "We'll see". And then, somehow, he's magically exonerated from the incredibly stupid action, by (not) answering these 10 questions? The way folks were carrying on, you'd think Jason's about to tell us all the meaning of freakin' life...but instead it's another 10 non-specific answers (and not even the top-ten list of concerns within the full community, I'd wager a fair bit). While back, Jason published some big article about his trip to Moscow, in the guise of an innocent "installment-of-many" articles on the behind-the-scenes work within the 777 team. The whole 'article' was basically a cover for his efforts to show how everyone who doesn't agree with him is wrong, from the DRM to the flight models... oddly, this was the only installment I recall seeing, which makes it all the more obvious what the "article" was really about. And the "reviews" on some of the sites? Good Lord...better I don't get started. I'll just say some folks clearly don't understand the concept of "objectivity", and leave it at that. But, this is related to this discussion, because - somehow - Jason has convinced people far and wide that he's worthy of thier praise (at least enough that not one of them ever mentions "Oh, yeah, the guy who publishes this sim is a jerk...") No sir, I think Jason's gotten far better treatment from most than he really deserves. This whole episode to me just more or less proves exactly the sort of person he is. And, I wouldn't be so quick to just dismiss the whole thing as he had a few drinks or was just having a bad day...naw, it ain't that simple, folks. What that little voice in the back of your mind is telling you...well, you know for yourself, it isn't wrong...

"...then never read a computer magazine or visit a PC shop again until you were ready to buy a new PC..." *lmao* Yeah, you can say that again Seems like every time I commit to/pay for something, it shortly thereafter is being practically given away free or is declared obsolete and replaced by a totally new (and not compatible) design. I didn't mention my own situation but it's a good example as well. The motherboard in my sig now is only a few weeks old; it replaced a unit scarcely a year old, when retailers starting offering substantial discounts on Z68-based boards. Couple that with a 'bundle' discount for buying the CPU & board together, and my cost was much less than it would've been just a short time prior. (Of course, I'm not fooling anyone - I got a good price because the retailer was already clearing shelf space for the next thing...x79). It happens I'd have probably been better off waiting out the newer x79 stuff to get cheaper, but I had other reasons for wanting to build a Z68 machine. Downside is my curiosity and impatience - though it did yield a ~15% performance gain overall - cost $ that would have probably produced even more benefit, had I been patient and waited. The good news, if you can call it that, is that I can now wait longer - with the 15% I did gain - while the x79 stuff comes down.

What you've observed is certainly true - but not isolated. It really has to do with what you're shopping for more than anything. What I mean is, if you buy any hardware for a PC when it's first out, you'll pay a FAT premium. Wait 6 or 8 months, that number will come down, sometimes as much as half. What almost always drives this is the next best thing is always right off in the wings, and as soon as that comes out, this will be much cheaper. Generally, the longer you wait, the cheaper it gets...well, to a point. For instance, the 460 you mention is 16 months old or so (depending exactly which unit); in the meantime the 500 series has come out and taken over the retail shelves. So the 460 is much less than when it first came out. (It is worth mentioning, though, that additional features often come along with the newer products - in the case of the 400s, I think the 500s generally are quieter, cooler, and use less power). The real trick is waiting out the price long enough, but not so long that the item you're after is suddenly missing from stores/'out of stock'. Watch closely, because once the price starts falling it tends to gain a momentum of sorts. It helps to know specs upfront, read reviews, etc - that way, when someone decides to dump the last stock they have of something at substantial discounts, you know what you're buying into and when. Basically, never - ever - buy the latest and greatest. The stuff is incredibly overpriced when it first comes out, and (unlike clothes) it will do exactly the same job new 6 months from now that it will do today. (Yes, I know thye'll have something faster by then but, remember: NEVER. Ever.) Just my $.02, FWIW

Rickitycrate (I spelled it wrong in the title, sorry) and I were having a nice dialogue back before the holidays; I got sick and was gone for a while, then he had been absent from CA after that. I haven't heard from him in forever, and I'm hoping he's OK. Any of you gents happen to hear form him or keep in contact? Not at all to incite needless drama, but I thought to ask here in case someone knew anything. It has been quite some time, which honestly concerns one a bit. Thanks folks.

Siggi, Different experiences is all. What matters are two things: - The mountain of parts (as pictured above) actually serves a purpose. Having a suspicion about what the problem is; that's one thing - anyone can do that. Having the parts to swap until you can prove/disprove...that makes all the difference. - A 'guarantee' of sorts; anyone who approaches me about working on their machine, I tell 'em flat out: If I can't fix it, you pay nothing. I have never cost anyone money by being wrong while working on their PC. Which circles back to the 'mountain of parts' for confirming what I think, rather than heaving parts on the client's dime. These days, I don't charge for PC work anyway (just a hobby) - but still, I don't tell them they have to pay for parts unless I can prove those part(s) are actually causing their problem. On a few isolated occasions, I have had to buy a part myself because I suspected it and didn't have a suitable 'swap'. Far more often than not, that part was the one needed to fix the PC, so I just had the "client" pay me back for the part. But, in the very rare instances the part did *not* fix the problem, I just kept it. And you see, that would get far too expensive if I were wrong all that often. Unfortunately, neither of the foregoing two things really apply when you're trying to help someone halfway 'cross the world (when they cannot afford to wait for shipping, or maybe can't afford pay for it). You'll note I did say that, if there was to be anything bought for troubleshooting, a PSU is cheaper than a motherboard. And although we disagree, I maintain a motherboard is still far more likely to fail, overall. Simple probability...there are far more components on the motherboard to go bad, if one must guess. Power suppllies are fairly simple, by comparison. This case was a rare exception. Also, further to '9 of 10 times' , I'd go so far as to say that, if you approached 1,000 people who work on PCs, the vast majority would have said motherboard. Moreover, the vast majoriy (999 of 1,000?) if they were being honest, would have to admit they didn't really know the PG signal was the problem here - even if they said PSU rather then motherboard. They might have said PSU as a guess because (for example) it's obvious the power isn't coming on, but that's not really a skilled or informed opinion...that's a simple case of "low-hanging fruit". Now, let's be honest - did you really know the PG signal was wrong, in this case? (If so, I don't recall reading that as part of your theory...you just said the PSU). I can tell you factually (perhaps it wouldn't matter) but I can accurately say that of all the the PSUs I've replaced, and quite a few I've repaired, this PG signal has never been the problem. I have seen primarily (85%+) the 'finals' go bad - the last voltage regulator in line on a 'rail'; the big ones mounted right to the large metal heatsinks inside. I have seen leaky and/or noisy caps, and I've seen fans that were left dirty and caused the PSU to overheat. I've seen cheap fans just get noisy or stop turning freely. These things are the most common failures by far, and they account for 90%+ ('9 of 10') of the PSU failures I've seen. A further 5% would likely be related to the 'smart circuit' that controls the over- and under-voltage/current protection (which includes the PG signal). But the PG signal is still only one part of what that circuit does, and it only matters for the split second the PC is being powered up. I mention all these failures because, as I said above when I described the 'paper clip test': "...if the PSU comes on during the (paper clip) test, the chances are very high that your PSU is fine" I didn't say it's absolute, but the paper clip test will catch every one of these failures (assuming one has a meter) except the PG rise time. It just doesn't happen that often. Every one I've ever seen either fails the paper clip test, or is fine.

Yeah, yeah, OK...I just knew there would have to be some gloating. I was just waiting. Good on ya, mate - glad you were right, sincerely. Like they say, even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and again. But, as I have said (and others) nine times of ten, this would have had a different outcome. There are always exceptions to the rule, just not very often. Like they say where I work, if you're not wrong every so often, you're not doing enough. I guess I get it right enough to have earned a living at it all this time, and/or convinced employer(s) the pay wasn't wasted (Good thing I have no problem being wrong every now and then, and learning something from it too, because of course it does happen ...otherwise me and people like me would stop offering any help at all in forums)

Well, I have been watching all morning to see if you'd post - that is indeed great news. And I gotta say, I've learned something totally new...I never would've thought that little of a time difference would make the difference, but *wow*. You do realize this has only played out as it has, because I said it was probably the motherboard *lol* (Now I'm thinking I might need to get one of those testers after all...) I wonder how often this PG is a problem (of all the "dead" PSU's one might have seen)? At any rate, good to see you're on your way again!

Sorry, tranquillo...I'm in a classified location, held captive against my will :) (Actually I'm near Atlanta GA, USA...I keep meaning to ask Olham to put me on the map and just forget). You guys can come visit if like...there's also a very lovely theater room I built down in the basement, adjacent to the shop. But I have to say there's no spare room...you see, that's where the shop is *lol* You know, that power supply you have/have ordered - the OCZ unit...that's a fairly high-quality unit I would think. I have such a hard time imagining that it being "off" by the 95msec for the PG signal is your problem. Hell, I have a hard time believing that it's really all that 'off', TBH. I guess the spec is what it is, but I just don't know. I know you were unable to wait on parts being sent to you, but in hindsight, it almost seems it would've been worthwhile to have a graphics card headed your way as a contingency. By the time you get the PSU, etc. the graphics card could probably have been there.

*lol* Thanks, VP...actually - believe it or not - my wife spends almost as much time as I do in there. She was also in the Navy, fully qualified micro-min tech in her own right. She sits at the brown desk (AKA "solder bench") over on the left doing her work, which she actually does pretty well for (part-time PCB assembly).

At work (electronics and computers) we have access to the full range of means to secure and organize cables. Like at least one other post, I can tell you it's a constant, uphill battle; many just give up and try not to let it bother them *lol* For me, I use 'zip-ties' or 'tie wraps' when I am absolutely sure something won't be coming apart again for a while. But for most things, they're just too permanent, requiring some cort of cutting to remove them if the need arises. The spiral tubing looks good, but especially if it's more than a few inches, is a pain to unwrap and remove or replace if a wire or cable needs replacing/re-routing. Compared to other (free) alternatives below, both of these are also fairly expensive. What I generally prefer for your routine desktop cable clutter is either the Velcro-type strips (strong and reliable, but serviceable) or the 'twistie-ties' (or 'bread ties') that come wrapped around most electronic devices' cables and also in many packages nowadays to secure them to the inside packaging. These are also strong (if applied right), and serviceable. Just have to make sure they have no sharp edges or metal exposed. I've also used the old ratcheting type plastic garbage bag strips, if you know what I mean, but I don't see many of those any more. They were cool because there's no metal to worry about. I keep a few big containers just for scraps of these free wire tying materials.

@ VP 8086 is a little outdated....kidding aside, up until most recently, I had a couple of 286-based machines, intact and running. I've been trying to cut down/clean it up (if you can believe that from the pics *hehehe*). There is, in the middle pic, a fully functional socket 370 P3-1400S machine...it's about the oldest one that (until recently) was actually used time to time (it was an old game server set up for the original Call of Duty; had to replace it because the kids wanted to play MP Minecraft and that actually requires a *very* hefty P4).

Hey, while we wait to hear back from our friend Tranquillo, as an 'intermission' of sorts, I thought I'd post some pics of my mountain of parts. Hopefully they're not too big. (Cue cheesy intermission music...) A few words (in my own defense *lol*): This is my basement, so it's messy. Nobody is supposed to see this Believe it or not, there are at least 4 working PCs in what you see, plus some others undergoing repair, and lots o' parts. You can also see my soldering bench with my extractor - very good tool to have if your doing any solder work. No, you're not imagining things...the pink stuff is insulation, it wasn't chosen for the color (turns out it's cold underground). Finally, the pictures can't do it justice, you really have to stand in the middle of it all to appreciate the full magnificent glory *lol*. Hope you all enjoyed the show.

Very good, sir...I think you've got the right approach (as well as could be expected in the circumstances). Like you, my gut is still saying motherboard. The graphics card, perhaps - but I wouldn't worry much, the symptom(s) with it (mostly the fan not running, IIRC) could easily be because a voltage regulator on the motherboard isn't firing up. Re: my basement full of parts...somehow, the wife doesn't quite understand how 'lucky' I am to have all this (but at least she does tolerate it). Good luck - Here's to seeing your Windows desktop again soon.

Yes, that's it. Sorry if I wasn't clear. If it were me, I'd try the jumping 5v trick. But if you're not feeling adventurous, which I can certainly understand, then the meter says what it says... ...I just wish I understood better why the 95msec would make that much of a difference. I get the specs, sure..but, that just seems so unlikely to me...I guess it is what it is. And I do so sorely wish you were nearby - I'd gladly toss a PSU your way to see if it was that. Man, I sure wish you the best.

Hey folks, glad to hear you have some indiction of the issue, Tranquillo - I guess this may be one of the 1-2 times in 10 when the PSU is bad (or, the rare case where the paper clip test would work but the PSU is still not good, according to the tester). The paper-clip test, clever as it might be, can't measure the time delay of that PowerGood signal. For the life of me, I can't imagine why it being 995ms instead of 900 would keep the motherboard from starting...seems to me it would just take those few milliseconds longer and start OK, just the same. That's my understanding of the PowerGood signal, anyway. I have to be honest, this isn't something I ever had a problem with, so I don't know. I have learned, though, that the power good signal can be 'faked' by tying it directly to +5v. This could be done as a test, simply to confirm if that is really all that is wrong with Tranquillo's PC. However, any one of us, individually, might not be at all comfortable with jumping voltages on power supply connectors, etc. Because of this situation, I've learned a new 'trick' that I will definitely try for myself...but I'd have to say everyone would have to decide for themselves whether they feel OK trying it or not. (Nothing at all wrong with knowing where the limits are!) One advantage that I enjoy is having a shop full of parts. If I suspect a PSU, then I can throw one in as a test, without the cost. Not everyone has a basement with parts for every computer built since dirt was invented In any case, a PSU is cheaper than a motherboard, so let's hope it is just a PSU. Tranquillo, if there's anything any of us can do, I'm sure you know where to find us - and let us know how you make out.

Funny you should ask...I've done quite a few, although the specifics tend to escape me; I know there was one MSI board (370SEA, I think) some PCCHips, maybe ECS, BioStar - yeah, mostly bargain brands...and I recall a couple old Nvidia video cards. The reason it's funny you ask is because just this week I'm working on a friend's daughter's machine. Lo-and-behold, bad motherboard; an Asus P4P800S to be exact. Off to eBay to find a replacement. $40, free shipping, board shows up in a few days, whatever. I spent 10 years in the Navy as a micro-miniature solder tech. Out of habit, I look at the solder work on electronic assemblies. This Asus board I bought has some of the worst solder work I've ever seen...I took a picture, should there be any problem with the board. I took the liberty of correcting the (really, really bad) solder work as best I could (there was a lot of damage that was unrepairable, though). I checked with the meter to be sure everything was OK before firing it up. Anyway, you know what had been replaced - all this solder work I'm talking about? The 6 caps right behind the CPU, no joke. I'll be honest, Asus has high-quality stuff, and at own point I was a dedicated Asus owner. I am now very happy with Gigabyte boards, having done a few of those in the past year or so. So, yes, I think they both make good products (IMHO). Do keep in mind that these boards I'm talking about repairing are often very old, so leaky caps doesn't mean they're poorly designed at all; caps just degrade over time. (That board I got this past week, for example, is a P4 socket 478 board; gotta be going on 10 years old...when's the last time you saw one of those?? *lol*).

*lol* VP, I've been around electronics for over 30 years :) I am quite sure I've picked up a thing or two from you (and others) here over the years. No shame in having the PSU tester - they work, of course, and the better ones make sure there's a proper load on the PSU - something the old clip test cannot do, BTW. I've even heard it said that some PSUs won't fire up without a proper load, but I've only seen it happen once, and that wasn't on a PC power supply. Plus, like you said, there's the LCD display...if it says "GOOD", that's far more convincing that a meter with some numbers @ NS13 - Yessir, that's a somewhat common failure, bad caps usually back behind/near the CPU. They rupture when bad (unfortunately, there's also corrosive electrolyte in them which can spill out). Newer, higher-quality motherboards boast "solid" caps which serve the same purpose - usually power filters - but don't have the corrosive leaking hazard. I have a continuous vaccum solder extractor and have replaced several sets of leaky caps, on both motherboards and video cards as well. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look in that area, tranquillo, because it could be the case - and if it is, you might find some enterprising soul willing to remove/replace the caps for you, for cheap.

Yeah, it can be quite a run-about when one part seems to keep them all from working. One thing to consider: Even if you cannot get a meter, if the PSU passes the "paper clip test" chances are fairly good it's OK - for what it's worth. If you want some other means of testing the outputs, consider these ideas: Common 2-cell AA or AAA flashlights work off 3v (2x AAA or AA battery @1.5v each), so the bulb from one of those can be used to confirm the 3.3v. Anything that runs off 12v - an old car radio, for example - can be used to confirm that line. The 5v is roughly the same as 4x AA or AAA powered devices (roughly 6v but will work on 5v); maybe an old portable radio would do. Most often you can either look at markings on electrical items to get an idea of what voltage they require, or (for battery-powered devices) look at the battery holder to determine how many batteries and therefore how much voltage they require. As for current, it is very unlikely a flashlight bulb, or a radio (even one from a car) will draw more than a fraction of the current your PSU can easily provide, so no worries about overloading it ; just make sure to keep the + and - wire 'polarity' correct. These are ways that you could, without a meter, confirm the outputs from the PSU. Hope this helps.

Tranquillo, Sorry I'm so late to join this dialogue, but regarding the PSU (and the 'tester'): You shouldn't need a tester. Every PC power supply I've ever worked on - and there have been many - will turn on as normal by simulating the motherboard's contact closure to the PSU's monitoring input. Sound complicated? Not at all, follow me: Make sure the PSU is disconnected from the AC line ("mains"), and it's power switch is turned off (if so equipped). Disconnect all the PSU's power plugs from everything, including those on the motherboard. (A long, 20- or 24-pin power connector, plus often a second 4-pin connector with 2 black and 2 yellow wires in a 2x2 square plug). On the 20(24)-pin connector, find the green wire - there is only one, always. It will be between two black wires on one side 'row' of the connector. The green wire is the PSU's input sense line, the black wires are ground. When your motherboard powers up normally, it sends a ground from the board to the green wire. The PSU won't work when disconnected because it doesn't get this ground. The whole arrangement is designed so that the PSU won't start unless the motherboard is OK (passes internal checks up to that point). It also allows 'relaying' start-up across configurations with multiple PSUs. Take a regular paper clip (the "jumbo" size works best), and carefully insert it in the plastic connector points so that the green wire is 'shorted' (connected) to any black wire, then flip the PSU "ON" switch on (if it has one) or plug the AC power cable back in. If you have shorted the green wire to *any* ground (black wire) then the PSU should come on as normal. I think I read you had access to a meter somewhere up in the thread. You'll need this to check the voltages coming from the PSU...the main ones are yellow wires = 12v, red wires=5v, and orange wires=3.3v. There are several other voltages which you can find references to, but if these three are present, then chances are about 99 to nothing your PSU is fine. But even if you didn't have a meter, worst case, then if the PSU comes on during the above test, the chances are very high that your PSU is fine. Speaking of which - and I *really* hate to be the bearer of bad tidings - but, to me, if I had to guess right now, site unseen? You have a bad motherboard. Not to detract from any other inputs here, but the 'sudden death' failures I've seen are the motherboard in 8 or 9 of 10 cases, and the PSU in 1 or 2 of 10. Many more sensitive components on a motherboard, and much more inside PSUs these days to protect them from bad loads. They can withstand even direct short-circuits across the voltage outputs; they simply do what's called "crow-barring" - shutting themselves off if something pulls too much current from them. I'd leave the tester you bought unopened, at least long enough to try what I discribed - you have nothing to lose. The money you save by returning the tester you can apply toward a new motherboard (or another part if that happens to be the case). In any event, the tester is not necessary; I've been building/repairing/upgrading PCs for many years now, and although I have a full complement of bench tools, I've never had (or needed) a power supply tester. If you prefer to confirm things you hear online for yourself - no worries - just google around a bit for 'how to turn on an ATX power supply' or some such. You'll see all sorts of references to the 'green wire' procedure, I am sure. Best of luck.

Although I admittedly do not have a reference at hand, Jason WIlliams himself has publicly stated "We don't use registry entries" - although for the very reason you cite above, that statement seems rather dubious to me (this may not affect the game, though, so much as how it appears in Windows for example). Either way, that's what the man said. All that being said, a new install would (most likely) require actually installing; not for RoF per se, but the other requirements - DirectX and C++ stuff, IIRC. I think if someone got it to work by simply dragging the folders on a new setup, then they probably already had the other requirements in place.