peter01

Hi Dagaith, Yeah, I need to fix that, but won't be for a while ... Its pointed out in the Readme as an issue.

unfortunately its useless as AI - it can't cope with the offfset. a pity

nice find Bucky, a really nice mod, makes a lot of difference. thanks Jan Tuma, Gbreuder & Fubar512

A bit of a change in pace. I'll be away for a over a week from thursday, so I thought I'd upload these before then, and if any problems gives you a couple of days to let me know. It is a bit rushed so could be installation problems or things missing. The AI on these are tailored for the planes. You need the A-teams rotary sound, and Gambit's german pilot. The download includes the following: A Readme file - you should read that, known issues, installation, etc. Keep in mind what I wrote above about some issues too, I had to write that before uploading these FMs. Pilot bmps to convert TKs newer pilot to old ones. Its for people without the Expansion Pack (but November patch). These are all addon planes. Files in a Weapons directory and other directories - for p10ppy's Le Prieur rockets as well as other weapons needed for loadouts. Gundata files - you must use these. As well as FMs, there are loadout files for each plane. 01_12_2009_FMs_for_Nov_2008_Patch.zip Edit: Ahh, forgot the most important bit, they are 1916 plane FMs.

Good time for me to write a bit about some of the other changes in this patch. Believe me, there has been a swag of changes in the Oct/Nov 2008 patches, but I'll limit it to issues that are affecting what I'm doing, ie, what you may notice. The changes are not in the FMs but how the game interprets the FMs, ie, the game engine. Generally the changes are an improvement, but often have side effects....older FMs work a little differently, something doesn't work as well for earlier plane FMs (ie, lower powered planes), or the changes are something that I haven't yet understood. The AI is a lot different. The AI is better in every way. Posted about rudder above, but theres a lot more. Some ai parameters don't work as before, some don't seem to make any difference anymore, and others that effect the ai now seem internalised (eg, how planes climb to stay in formation). So theres a learning curve involved for me again, and the implication is that there may be some ai problems. Actually, to be more precise, at the moment, there are definitely some occasional ai problems with ones I'm doing (not posted yet). Takeoff has changed. Lots better, easier to lift and less prop torque on the ground. But it also means some of my FMs are a bit jittery before takeoff (tail bouncing a bit whilst stationary, mainly for player), and at times I get a red screen/black screen for a nano second when starting a takeoff. This may be just how I do those FMs, and may be easily solvable, but I haven't worked it out yet. It seems in part a compromise between being able to takeoff nicely and those issues. I don't think its a major issue at all, nor common, and certainly takeoff is far better. Planes do not fly at their top speed. This is true of TKs too. They generally fly at around 5% slower (eg for the same FM in Oct 2007 game versus this current version). It may be a little less or more than 5%, depending on the particular FM. Probably because TK has changed how drag works in the game. Its an improvement to me, the planes feel better. I won't be increasing their speed, partly also as TK may change it in the future so that do fly at rated speed. The planes yaw in level flight mode - this may also be contributing to the speed thing above. They don't fly straight. AI flights may veer off to for all I know. Its due to prop torque (MOI). TK will undoubtely fix this, and I'm not reducing MOI as its an good attribute in TKs flight model. Planes are more bland without or even too little prop torque. Planes can be nose heavy or tail heavy. This is especially true of earlier planes. Its not just in level flight, but even after say diving, then pulling up straight, there may be a tendency to pull down that you need to offset. Not sure why, probably a combination of changes to drag and other things. I generally can improve/reduce this, but its difficult at times, and other times its seems like a "feature" to me - the planes take some more work to fly, more interesting - not bad for earlier planes! SORTA OFF TOPIC: I do wonder how anybody without a lot of experience could do FMs for First Eagles now. And thats experience with FE's FMs, not TK's other games - FE's FMs are harder, more so now. Actually, looking back, FMs for the the original FE were a piece of cake in comparison ... a beginner could do FMs with some effort learning the basics and with trial and error. Not sure about that anymore. Its one reason why I'm posting what I'm doing - I doubt anybody else will do many, if any, for FE.... and thats a shame for the game, and all the great addon planes done by the modellers. The game is certainly improving, but I wonder if the improvements aren't sort of self defeating - from a FM perspective its no longer easily moddable.

Its not ideal, and yes, you do have elevators and ailerons being shot off. But gun effectiveness is certainly less with these gundata files. It can take some hits before the player downs a plane. AI is different. Thats with "Hard" Weapons in "Options". TK has made some changes to gun effectiveness, it seems guns are less effective for the player, but the same, ie, more effective comparatively, for the AI. I'm pretty sure the Vickers is also less effective as well compared to the Spandau and Lewis. These changes would be very easy for TK to make in the game code/parameters, not the gundata files, as there are various levels depending on user selectable settings, and the AI is probably different again. All this may be well and good, but it makes changing effectiveness more complex then before. With my new ones, on the one hand its hard for the player to bring down some planes. But at the same time you can knock off bits and pieces, even wings, especially smaller sized planes or wing areas (eg mono planes). I strengthen tails & elevators, the usual suspects, and this works reasonably well for those parts on many planes, but not all. On the other hand, the AI still have very effective guns. Have tried, but can't reduce gun effectiveness via bullet mass more, even by a small amount, as it becomes very difficult for the player to shoot anything down. Doesn't seem to make much difference to the AI. This simple approach worked very well in the past. Thinking that maybe the way to go is to use easier gun settings in "Options", say "Normal" for the player, then reduce the overall gun effectiveness in the gundata files via bullet mass. The aim in this approach is to equalise better the ai and player gun effectiveness, which I think is the main problem, then reduce bullet mass. A WIP I guess. But then again, I just think TK will change it again in the next patch, so whats the use? He does seem to be on a roll with changes. I'm happy with the one I uploaded for the present. I doubt I'll be redoing it for a while.

Re-reading the above post by me, its a bit long :), so thought i'd summarise the important points. The first is, yes these FMs of mine as AI are better than TKs with TKs standard AI data parameters, because mine have better rudder, and the AI now uses rudder very effectively, in turns as well. They are also better comparatively performance-wise as AI than they are for the player with standard ai parameters. So their performance as AI needs to be reduced for game play balance, ideally capability should be about the same for player and AI. The AI is easily fixed but does require some testing ... so later. The performance of my FMs in the later period (june 1917 onwards) is generally just very slightly better overall than TKs. Its necessary if you try to cover the period before that - 1915 to june 1917. Some of course are better because I think TK has underdone them eg, Spad13, Se5a, FokkerD7 - there overall performance (climb or dive, not turn) would be as good or better than the Camel for example.

Hi Bucky, (This was meant to be a quick post, but ahhh...the main point is the second last paragraph - on rudder). Good points Bucky. Like me you obviously want the right balance in performance differences between planes ... I spend a lot of time trying to do that. Obviously there are various compromises, but generally if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't like the game. I agree with most of what you pointed out. You have sort of indirectly highlighted some issues I'm having; the Oct/Nov 2008 patch has introduced a lot of changes. The FMs, the AI, even gundata stuff is suprisingly quite different to previous versions...better, but more complex. The AI especially is taking me some effort and experimentation to get right. There are other issues too - i will write up something either in this thread or in readme file later. I do the AI differently for my own game. As there is some testing still to do, and because it needs to be done for all the planes, not just a few here and there that I upload, I've stuck to TKs default ones pretty much for these planes. The reason for sticking to default AI: I'm spending a lot of time to get the AI as I want, i'm not doing the same for the ones I'm uploading to fit with TKs planes or TKs AI. So much more testing if I do that, and no point either, in the end! Like always, to get a finely tuned and improved game, you need to changes all the FMs or AI or usually both. I'm not sure how many FMs I'll do - this could be it, or I might do many more. Once I'm finished what I do, whatever it is, I'll mod the AI - either to fit with TKs planes (easily done, but does require a couple of days of testing) or how I think they work best (the ones I'm using) - and put the FMs and other files in the Downloads section rather than on a forum thread. At the moment, they are not finished from an AI perspective (and they still need loadout files, weapons data files etc). Why upload? Well, it could be weeks or months before I finish, depending on how much I do, so thought I'd just make them available. From a FM perspective (as against AI), these are finished, there won't be tweaks or improvements as I usually do over time etc... and thats not because I couldn't be bothered or don't have the time, its because I think they are easily the best I have ever done - all of them. In terms of feel, how they fly, performance differences, roll is much reduced, stress modelling (for Nieuports only works well, done a bit differently to TKs), takeoff (not perfect, but loads better), damage modelling, and stalls (better, but again not always perfect). And the difference in AI capability you pointed out is not so much the difference in the performance of my planes compared to TKs. For example if you fly my Albatros DV its a bit better than TKs Albatros Dva, but only just. But from an AI capability, yes it is better. In other words, my Albatros Dv (for example, its true of all mine) is better performance wise as AI then for the player using TKs standard AI data, something I always avoid and will fix sometime. The reason? See below, last paragraph, on rudder. And, yes, there is a new Camel. And its a bit better than TKs. But only just. Generally TKs planes are too good performance wise in the Expansion Pack, and a question maybe is why make them better, even a little? I'd rather not of course. Theres two reasons I need to. The first relates to the Flight Model. What TK has done in the EP has optimised the model so that planes with a certain turn and roll feel better and are easier to do. Turn is the major factor. Eg, TKs Camel currently turns 360 degrees in a level turn in about 9 secs. If this was 11 secs I think the game would be better. And the AI would be slower, not so hectic, an improvement. But thats the way it is. I could do a Camel that would turn in 11 secs, and feel good, but ONLY JUST....but that leads me to the second point.... ... performance differences between planes over several years. Of course earlier planes and less capable planes would need to turn slower then the Camel. Again this is limited by the games Flight Model. For example at the moment I have a very nice Nieuport 11 that turns in about 12 sec. It feels pretty nimble too, how it should. Yet its performance compared to later planes couldn't be any better (otherwise it would be too good - there a lot of planes between the N11 and the Camel), and I absolutely can't do a plane that turns in less then 12-13 secs that feels nimble or even feels that good. Thats the Flight Model. People will/do say you can do anything with TKs Flight Model - maybe, but after trying for quite a while, I seriously doubt it, for First eagles anyhow. TK would need to do it in the game engine (which he can BTW), or provide considerably different example FMs to follow - with new tables etc. Or both. Now all this on turn performance may seem much ado about nothing...theres other things like climb and roll. However this game, and maybe ALL ww1 and ww2 flight sims, are limited by turn in other ways too not just from doing nice FMs. Most importantly differences in turn are very important in dogfighting in the game. The AI uses turn mainly, and if you are flying a plane with slightly slower turn then the AI you will lose, and slightly better you will win. The difference can be as small as 1 sec in turn performance in your favour or the AIs to make that difference. So everything has to be very finely tuned between plane FMs and AI to get performance differences over time. Very hard, and heaps of testing. Thankfully in TKs game (not in any other WW1 game AFAIK) this can be modified by tailoring AI data for every plane individually - which is what I do. And try to tailor the AI to the planes best performance attributes eg climb for energy fighters. Sometimes the end result is that the plane is less or more capable for the player then it is for the AI. I try to limit this - just seems a slippery slope to me, but at times I need to do it. And getting back to your point, theres an improvement in the AI in the Oct/Nov 2008 game that makes my FMs seem more capable then TKs for planes with similar turn which is a big improvement by TK to the AI. Its rudder. Mine have better rudder, and the AI now use rudder very well. So my FMs are better as AI with stock AI data. Its easily fixed by modding AI data, to get that parity between AI and player performance flying the same plane. I'll follow this up with another post later on gundata.

LOL, you were quick trying them out as well, and shot down too! I'd be guessing, but I don't think you can do much about it, except maybe not to detach any part of the wing when the wings are destroyed. Your doing some modelling? May be you or p10ppy would know how to fix, if possible. I remember when the A-Team released it, I think they implied there may be some anomalies ... "not to their usual high standard" or similar were their words.

Second set of FMs. Alternative FMs to TKs AlbatrosD3 and SE5a, and new FMs for the F2b and PfalzD12 addon planes. 11_01_2009_FMs_for_Nov_2008_Patch.zip

Hi Dagaith, thanks for posting and some feedback ... I do appreciate it, people posting about FMs/AI has become rare it seems. But I'm perplexed, the PfalzD3 turns well, about the same as the Albatros D5s, both TKs and mine. It seems about right in capability compared to the others. I fly and fight in it often - because of the Blue Max movie (just purchased it on DVD a few weeks ago). All I can think of is that you do not have the right data.ini in your Pfalzd3 directory? The PfalzD3_data.ini should have a date stamp of 2009, and at the top of the file it should say: // Pfalz D.III // 3D Model By the A-Team // This is a new and alternative FM version. // Many thanks to the A-Team for allowing me to // to develop this modification // FM for Nov 2008 Expansion Pack ONLY // Ver 1.0 Beta Jan 2009 peter01 // Contact me on forums if questions // NOT the A-Team or Charles Maybe theres another reason, does anybody else feel the same way as Dagaith?

Thanks whiteknight, wasn't aware of those. Great to see the Bristol Scout especially. DH4 loks interesting but needs a paint job basically themightysrc, AFAIC Fms only work for the version they were designed for - TKs is making major changes in every patch, especially in the EP. mine in the upload section clearly state which version they work for, and that they only work for that version. I guess everyone just wants them to work for all versions....but they don't.

From the Wings of Honour website http://www.wingsofhonour.com/index.en.html#nPHP1219270118 "There is a new information that the new W.W.I flight sim by neobq will be called 'Rise Of Flight'. This is an unofficial information from the neobq Team which is currently present at the Games Convention in Leipzig/Germany. More unofficial information from neobq's product manager and from their chief technology officer: neobq is still searching for a publisher but aims for a 2008 release. It is planned to release a basic version of the simulation with two (?) planes and a large map. More planes will be available as add ons to be bought separately. The planes will cost money only when the player wants to fly them. They are free of charge when flown by the in game AI within missions. An update in the beginning of next year will introduce planes (bombers) with 2 or 3 crew members (pilot, bombardier and gunner). It is planned to have controllable ground units in single player. There will be a mission editor but it will not be published. The developer may charge for additional missions created by them. For online play there will be a publicly available server software capable of holding 128 players per map. here will be no AI controlled ground units in multi player. There will be a simple interface to plan missions, for example escort missions for bombers, in a fast and easy way. With the support of Intel the game engine has been improved to hold around 40 fps during air battles although the flight models and physics are based on dynamic flow calculations. Those calculations will not only apply to the player's aircraft but also on AI controlled aircraft."

Thanks GrimViper! Appreciate the post, and sounds great, taking ww1 sims to a new level. I posted your comments at SimHq http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topi...tml#Post2617518 How was it like flying the plane? Engine management/controls? Easy to stall/spin? Did you takeoff or land? Ahh, i'm envious you had a chance to try it out, probably won't be released for a few months. Cheers

Going away on several weeks holidays...and thought i'd upload some FMs before that. Probably in a couple of days. These are not just quick updates, as per most of the other FM updates recently, these are some major rework, and on the whole many are definitely as good as I can do. Not perfect, for various reasons, see below, but generally a great improvement IMO. I won't be doing anything much or more on most of these, though damage modelling and AI can always be tweaked, just takes some time and testing/playing. Still intend redoing some other earlier FMs, mainly wing warping monoplanes mainly due to roll. The major changes in this lot are mainly to allied 1917-1918 planes. Oct 2007 EP of course. Why continue with improving Oct 2007 FMs? Partly I'd like a full set of planes to work with one version, and now. The other reason relates to converting FMs to say the April 2008 Patch. Have tried it and its not too bad, some are better some are not, on whole pretty good (AI is just as hard to change, changed completely between versions). But its certainly the case that the better the basic FM, say for Oct 2007 version, the better they are once converted to the April 2008 version. I expect that the next version will change the FM and AI again, but its likely that logic will follow there too....i hope. There's a bit of a mix, some AI only changes, some minor changes, mostly major FM changes. N11, N16, N17, N17bis. AI changes only, mainly to reduce nieuport AI diving as much, bit unrealistic for nieuports. Halberstadt D3, Fokker D2. AI changes, Fokker DII especially was too good as AI. Pfalz EV, Fokkers EIV/EVa. Changed, more difficult to fly and roll reduced. still feel good I think, if not better. Intend redoing some early mono wing warpers, I guess this is an indication of how they will tend to be. FokkerD7. Minor change, just roll reduced and a bit more stable. Pup, Tripe, F2b, Dolphin, Se5a, Snipe, N28, Spad13, FokkerDr1, PfalzD3. Major changes. Stalls are far more pronounced then previously (its probably how I will do it for the next version) and many require a lighter touch less ham fisted approach. N28 is good example of this, its very capable, but less effective if you just throw it around. Roll reduced on most, this seems easy, its not, but its an improvement I think. Also the distinction between rotaries and others are becoming quite evident I think, rotaries are less smooth. Some things worth pointing out: Dolphin. 4 and 2 Gun versions, thanks to p10ppy, but otherwise same FM. The default is the 2 gun one. There are backups of each version in the folder hopefully clearly named so you can delete default and copy another pick and choose. F2b. Overwing Lewis and Without Lewis versions from Mike Dora's idea, and in folder with backups of each, same FM. Default is Without Overhead Lewis. This F2b FM is a good turner, in order to reflect that the F2b was the equal to any ww1 fighter, and my understanding is "amazingly nimble". It climbed about as well as the Camel and Se5a too. From wikpedia - "was fast and manoeuvrable enough to be flown in combat more or less like a single-seat fighter; the pilot's fixed forward-firing gun serving as the principal weapon, with the observer's flexible gun serving mainly as a bonus "sting in the tail". Flown in this manner the Bristol Fighter was a formidable opponent for any German single-seater". If you don't agree/like this, keep the previous FM. Se5a. A tough FM to do, requires some compromises. Roll is too good, but if I reduce it just kills the FM. It needs to be flown as a ZnB'er to maximise the Aldis. Damage modelling may need to be improved. Fokker Dr1. Two FMs, TKs with AI changes and mine. Default is mine. I'm really very happpy with this, an improvement to what I posted before, but its your choice.

real, 1918, 10 mins, fresh looking and famous faces, good quality but silent film, spads and the lovely n28, nice flying sequences in the middle, worth a look: http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/522.cfm

I don't think there is one yet available garamimi. Not sure why, as Thirdwire have released some for the original FE, here http://www.thirdwire.com/downloads_fe_tem.htm Perhaps TK will release them if he is asked at his/thirdwire's forum.

http://www.riseofflight.com

File Name: FM Update 3rd September File Submitter: peter01 File Submitted: 3 Sep 2008 File Category: Flight Models The "QUICK START FMs and Campaigns for Oct 2007 Version EP ONLY" and "FULL SET FMs and Campaigns for Oct 2007 Version EP ONLY" have also been updated. There's a bit of a mix, some AI only changes, some minor changes, mostly major FM changes. N11, N16, N17, N17bis, Halberstadt D3, Fokker D2. AI changes only. Pfalz EV, Fokkers EIV/EVa. Changed, more difficult to fly and roll reduced. Dh2. Minor changes to stalls. FokkerD7. Minor change, roll reduced and more stable. Pup, Tripe, F2b, Dolphin, Se5a, Snipe, N28, Spad13, FokkerDr1, PfalzD3. Major changes. Some things worth pointing out: Dolphin. 4 and 2 Gun versions, 2 Gun version thanks to p10ppy, but otherwise same FM. The default is the 2 gun one. There are backups of each version in the folder hopefully clearly named so you can delete default and copy another to pick and choose. F2b. Overwing Lewis and Without Lewis versions from Mike Dora's idea, and in folder with backups of each, same FM. Default is Without Overhead Lewis. The gun is removed, but the mount for the Lewis is still in place on this model, as I found some graphical glitches when that was removed. Fokker Dr1. Two FMs, TKs with AI changes and mine. Default is mine... its your choice. Click here to download this file

Dolphin with 2 Guns christian. The ModelNodeName= xxxxx in added [MydummyweaponstationX] Weapon Stations section relates to various components in the Dolphin-R1.out file, a text file. Dolphin_DATA.zip

Yes Rise of Flight is the game previously known as KoTS. They just reopened after a long spell. There are also some very nice vids. Veryy high quality but 200mb I think, plus lower res versions of the same at WWI Air Combat Sims.. http://wwiaircombat.com/

Thanks for the expert instructions P10ppy , thats neat . Much better I think.....wanted to do this for a while

probably not in game helderm, seems a problem i just delete extra ones fiddling in the PilotData folder.

capun will probably let you know if this is possible if you ask at the A-teams site: http://cplengineeringllc_bb.cplengineering...c48dafcfa3c3c87