peter01

Another update. To the 1916-1917 FMs. Added the Fe8. Changes (minor and major) to mainly Fokker E3, Fokker E4s, HalberstadtD3, Walfisch, Albatros D2, Morane N, Nieuport 11, Nieuport 16, Fe 2b/c. But many have AI changes too, recommend you install all of them. You can't takeoff in the N11, Fe2b/c. Sorry, but takeoff is very tricky to get right with the new flight model, especially so for earlier planes. Will look at them later down the track. Likely to be another round of tweaks on some of these - mainly wing warping, stress modelling (tho N11 and N16 will shed wings if you pull up hard at higher speeds, around 120-130mph) and takeoff. But they are starting to look pretty good generally, and won't update for a while.

An update uploaded as a seperate download to a few FMs provided earlier for 1917-1918 period. The Brisfit, Dolphin, SchuckertD3, PfalzD12 needed some tweaking, and have changed considerably, improved. Should be available shortly.

The FMs and AI seem fine with the Patch. Only thing, TK must have made a change to the Aircraftobject.ini, as the alternative Aircraftobject.ini's I provided result in the blip switches in the rotary powered planes not working - in my game at least. As I only changed the skill levels, you can copy that part from mine to an extracted Aircraftobject.ini from the new patch, if you want. I'll probably update the downloads down the track.

Its good you have the persistence, and hopefully you'll give FE and other games a try in the future. Its a new world, one I couldn't even imagine 15 years ago. But theres two things. the first is software development (and also I guess mods done by people), can be very very complex...it takes time and/or money to get right, and in any case will never be perfect (ever). I work in a bank, its a guarantee when theres a change to a system (even critical systems eg Automatic Tellers, cheque processing, internet banking), its a certainty theres will be a problem. No two ways about it - sometimes a disaster. But they get fixed, or workarounds are established. So, my advice with computer games is simple, one I followed for many years. If you are happy with a release, don't install any new mods, or patches, or upgrades, until you make a copy. Then try out the upgrade etc. Sometimes its a matter of actually running 2 or more different versions, eg, FE EP and FE pre-EP. This is because although a new release/patch etc may improve some aspects, others you may not like. Its a matter of picking your preference. I had 4 versions of Il2 running at one time, simply because although each new release added new planes which was great,it would either reduce my frame rates or alternatively the AI would get worse. Its how it is....so, backup before installing changes, and if possible keep a copy on your PC, and one on a external HD - these are cheap now, and are essential. If you don't have the disk space on a PC or an external HD, basically you are living dangerously because time and money are the drivers in software development..

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback, especially on how the planes feel/fly. Yeah, Tooner, you have a good feel for the planes ... I believe Tk has improved the inertia thing, it was a bit one dimensional before. Now you still get prop torque, but its more subtle and better. Yes, the Tripe especially is now real sweet, definitely among my best. Christian, I do the rudder differently to TK in the FMs. Not the control section, but the combination of forces within the FM - its a substantial difference and it took a while to do this successfully. So combining an FM that has potentially more rudder, and giving the AI more rudder ability in the AI parameters (still don't know why TK doesn't do this), means that the AI not only climbs, dives, turns, rolls, but yaws very well .... and as a result, as Bandy nicely put it, they are a very slippery lot. TK has developed the best dogfighting AI of any flight sim, bar none. Thanks again for taking the time to post.

As I spent some time tidying up files for the 1916-1917 pack, decided to do the same for a couple of others I have changed as well recently, an update a few to the FMs provided earlier in 1917-1918 pack. Changed N28, Snipe FMs so that elevators don't freeze up so much at high speeds. Thanks to Tailspin for pointing this out. Pup, Tripe changed considerably, improved. Have changed the main download pack too, but included a seperate smaller download for those that have already downloaded this larger pack earlier.

Okay, reloaded, and available. There were some incorrect early (very early) files in previous upload, you should download and install all these. All the Nieuports are different, some others too - not sure how many or which ones, I didn't check all the previous ones. Have checked these though , and flying them all yesterday, I'd say if your not flying Nieuports for a while now , well, I just give up

hmmm...sorry guys, going to have to delete the download just installed from CA, and some planes are not the ones I last did. I use several different installs, looks like I got some mixed up its a reason why tidying up before uploading takes time, not only cleaning up test stuff, but just testing to ensure I have right ones... it'll take a few days

Uploaded, just in time for the weekend Should be available shortly ..... here Have fun.

Last post before uploading, on w/e sometime. The Readme is pretty comprehensive, and recommend you read that. More generally however, these together with the other FMs done are close to all the FMs for the add-on planes we have, plus TKs of course, that were flying from mid 1916 to the end of the war. The Somme to the Armistice! Wanted to get this complete so I could relax and fly (had to do all to enjoy it and relax!), do RL things, and wait for TKs patch. So, maybe a bit rushed, could be issues, but seem pretty good to me....the FMs are getting a lil' easier with experience. Am interested in what you think, any issues, improvements. I'll probably tweak or change things leisurely for myself, and this is often the best way, but won't be updating and reposting again for a while. There are now 30 FMs, couple more included, N11 and N16. Cheers

A few was probably an understatement , there's 28 FMs. Mainly 1916-1917, plus several to complete the later period. These are some things want to say about these before uploading, so couple more posts. But firstly, they took about 4 months on and off to do, been tinkering continuously, and then finished them in the past month. They are pretty good on the whole to me, but, some may need some more tweaking or testing - not as completely tested as I'd like (just a bit worn out), eg, Be2C/Ds use TKs default AI parameters and seem to work but bombers can be tricky AI.... ,and these are earlier planes, so did some a bit differently, took some experimention. But as I said, they seem good to me...at moment I'm enjoying this era as much as the later. Let me know what you think of them, any improvements or issues. I take it all on-board, just may not change or fix immediately. Thanks to all the modellers, a truly talented bunch. There are 2 alternative FMs for TKs planes. RE8, DFWC5. Done for player takeoff, and to improve turning - they were a bit frustrating. And 2 extras - Albatros D2 version based on TKs Albatros D3 3-D Model, and a DFWC1 based on the DFWC5 model. 24 addon plane FMs......... Nieuport 17 from MontyCZ Nieuport 24 and Nieuport 27s from EmID - 6 variations in total Fokkers E3, E3a, E4, E4a from Laton Dh2 from Aladar Morane N from P10ppy Fokker D2, Fokker D3, Martinsyde G100 from Bortdafarm Fe2B (and extra FE2c), Halberstadt D3, Roland C2, Breuget 14, Be2C, Be2D, Aviatik C2 from the A-Team. Sorry, no Nieuport 11/16. Not yet anyway. Cheers

Looks great. Glad to hear you are considering doing the whole set.

Just finishing off a few more FMs, and probably will upload in a couple of days. These are likely the last lot for a while, tho theres one more half done, just taking some time, so maybe add it later. If I finish it! Reason I'm giving it a break isn't due to TKs patch possibly/likely introducing changes - though the more I do, the more I worry about that - but just a wee bit FM'ed out at the moment. Bit late tonight, so I'll post more details in the next few days.

Yeah, stress modelling is good, but maybe later. Glad your enjoying the game and the the stuff I have done.

Hi Peeppu, Its still a WIP. Laton is away for some weeks, but seems like he will have a lot on his plate (and in his lap :)) when he gets back, so ??? see this thread.........Click me! Cheers Ahh, not sure if link works...buts on page 2 started by laton, titled "Some WIPS"

ChanceUseVertical is a euphemism for a hard extended dive (as a defensive maneouvre). 10 etc means 10% chance, based on who knows... Once an AI dives, it loses the dogfight, as it then comes back up to continue (if it wasn't like that I'd consider it an smart "exit strategy"), and is at a severe disadvantage. Reducing this means the AI stays and fights, not giving away a height advantage for no good reason (except a die roll , pun unintended), trying other maneouvres such as turns, sideslips, climb. Seems far better for more experienced pilots (who will dive after trying other things to shake you if you are on their tail, but not usually immediately). And to me higher is better for less capable AI that find it harder to sideslip out of harms way, outturn you, etc - they will dive pretty quick. Cheers

Sure it won't be long.............. and with all this discussion/confusion about what works with what, thought it may be advisable to post something before it happens. Just my opinions..... TK will provide patches including an upgrade for the pre-EP game to EP standards, real soon maybe?? If you don't have the EP, should you upgrade the pre-EP with a patch to bring it to EP standards? I'd say, yes and no. No, because all the planes you have for pre-EP won't work properly. Basically the problem will be the AI, and not trivial issues. Not just dogfighting, but formation flying, Autopilot too. It will be unplayable. So keep your pre-EP as it is, untouched. Otherwise it will be the worst of both worlds (unless TK does something different). Yes, as in a NEW seperate install. But don't move all the pre-EP planes into the new install, just those for which new FMs have been done, ie, most of my lot uploaded this week, and those that you have correct 3 D models for. They will work. Of course I'd suggest you buy the EP (and keep pre-EP seperate and not patched), its a better game, TK is probably going to improve it further and over time all the planes will probably work for EP, but I can understand people may not have the filthy lucre necessarily, or want to do it. Just thought I'd post this, hate confusion.....and in a way, the issue facing FE players is different to TKs other games......the previous jet sim game users probably could upgrade when patches are ready for them, easily, without our particular issues.

Really nice guitarclassic55, great contribution. Hope you do 'em all...lots of work, I know....but, it'll enhance the game considerably. Sorta immersive, as well as nice looking... Thanks again.

yeah, know what you mean. Not much more I can add to this particular area in any case.....or inclined to either. Best to wait and see if TK changes things, as currently, I have been following the way he has done things for example on stress modelling .... its safer, unless you spend a fair bit of time testing everything. And did try both stock Albatros DIII and DVa, they perform as you described my version of Alb D3 did in an extended dive (FMs are done lots differently to TKs, BTW). Dive limited to 200 mph, then roll and nose down again, goes to 220-250 mph. Pull up okay.

Thats a good point, and its a good discussion. Until changes are made to Normal Mode so it is performance wise like Hard Mode, with options like Stalls, Stress Modelling - for example like "Hard", "Normal" and "Off" - possibly true gyro effects as options too to change the difficulty or realism, nobody will get personal preferences as they like. Its all a sort of compromise for everyone: new players, players that like it easier, and players that like it tougher. Luckily its not that bad a compromise currently (or we have got used to it). I predict (you heard it here first ) TK will do this sometime, maybe soon. With the new style FMs, its impossible to do them nicely for both modes because of performance differences (normal mode currently is hopeless), the FMs need to be finely tuned (not for one mode or the other, unlike pre-EP), there will be real differences in Modes with stalls and stress modelling now they are implemented and working properly/better, and its more in line with every other game. Its a big thing for FE, but whether it happens depends on how much different the jet simmers find the difference between the two modes, and if the new style FMs are okay or not in Normal for WOI. Should try it I guess....

lol, good one. I think I was saying something similar above, but geee, wish I could have put it that way....lol

Yes, Tex did it differently. The things you just pointed out are pretty true for many planes, less so for Spads, Se5a I think, because they were more effective at high speeds. Its not really compressibility, in my FMs and TKs, its mainly control surface effeciency (and partly how the FM is built), that causes planes to be less effective at high speeds. And thats probably how it should be - it was a problem too for many WW2 planes. I'd say many pilots in WW1 experienced problems (maybe deadly!), not just wings being lost, but losing CS effectiveness. All planes were optimised for flying in certain speed ranges, and even tho say the Pup was pretty robust, it was not recommened that it been flown at say speeds approaching 200 mph or even close to it!! No doubt pilots could reach these speeds....just a matter of full throttle and pointing the nose down really, but ahh, consequences greater then just simply restarting the mission. Se5a, others were different...maybe due to control surface effeciency, as well as robustness, steadiness (fluttering?), and other things. For example you mention that you have had many planes going at 200 mph - but there are blackout, redout type effects I presume? To me, these are not as strong or prolonged as they could be...but maybe thats just me . Whether its overdone, consistent etc may be an other matter, so it is really good to hear what you think, and there may be a "best way" to do it . But like I said there are many tradeoffs, and many alone in this particular area too! They relate to general FM limitations, how you can make planes feel and fly differently to one another (a major limitation also, its why the FMs will indeed change considerably going forward, they are sorta half done to me, albeit quite well and an improvement to me to pre-EP), and very much to game play as well.

On the contrary, its good you are trying them out and posting. It helps me with the FMs too...there's always a lot of decisions/tradeoffs, things I lose sight of, and just last minute changes that can then have other effects. The N28 falls into that last category. Just to clarify, I didn't add compressibility, say as Tex did for different reasons on his initial FM. Tho to all intents and purposes it does seem like compressibility . I eliminated wing shredding for the N28 in the new FM. Whilst doing this lot, started to see difficulties, mainly with the AI handling this (in Albs especially, I had it in for them too). Its not that it doesn't work in the game, it does, but requires some fine tuning from both a player and AI perspective. The AI side is time consuming, you have to have many dogfights etc to force them to pull high Gs etc. I guess its a matter of learning more about how various things work...a refinement down the track AFAIC at this stage. But, as I took this out of the current N28 FM, an underlying "type" of compressibility issue remained, that I overlooked (its in the previous FM too, just your wings fall off before it happens so never really noticed ). So the solution is to either eliminate the underlying type of compressibility issue, or include "wing shredding". I'll look at it some point in time, its a combination. I do like modelling stress type effects, its a game enhancement, especially for early Nieuports, and probably will find how it works exactly, whats good in game, etc when I do these. A quick fix to get the current FM to how it was with the previous one on wing shredding, which then reduces any compressibility issues: 1) Change the values in [FlightControl] MaxG= . . MachLimit= to what thwey were before. 2) Find MaxG= ... added to certain wing sections in older FM, and copy that to similar places in new FM. This causes wing shredding. It can be become quite refined. Done. I don't recommend you change all the FMs for yourself, and I won't be changing any at the moment myself. Its a hassle for everyone to update continually, and as per the other thread its a moving target, there are many changes ahead. IMO its best everyone keeps changes to a minimum at the moment.

Thanks, didn't see this particular post....but not surprised, my guess is that the FMs will change with each and every patch for maybe quite a while Hopefully this time round the post-beta trials will be shared with WOI.

If AutoTrimLimit works for you, then its an improvement. But I can't recommend you do this for the D7 or any other FM. The AutoTrimLimit parameter is complex, basically the FM has to be built for it, rather than tacking it on an existing FM. I gave up on it, because to make it work effectively, you had to build the FM so the plane was always pitching up (like the Camel, Dr1). You may find it works, or is okay, for some FMs (I doubt it tho, you may find the D7 starts wanting to climb, other things too, possibly major problems), but won't work at all for some others. But thanks for raising this - jumpy.... and nervy (in a previous thread from Tooner). I realised from Tooners post and when my old FF stick died that the planes felt quite different, depending on whether you used FF or not, even the level of FF (High lots different then Low), possibly even very different for different Joysticks (my saitek was never that bad before in a flight sim). Its the EP style FMs - fantastically sensitive (in FE only), in every way. Never seen such a difference before, pre-EP or any other game. Maybe just never noticed? So could be joysticks or could be preference - I like motion in WW1 planes, and to me the D7 seems a bit more edgy (which I like) than jumpy, but I can see where you are coming from. Anyway, what I would recommend is to increase PitchDamper=0.30 to 0.40. Its safe, changes the plane performance only very slightly, and the plane will be steadier. For other planes, if considered jumpy too, 0.1 increments should be enough for most planes, but .... ya know, it makes them a bit smoother, so keep it minimal!!