peter01

Sorry Charles, missed this one, was heading os on that day. There does does seem to be a largish and strong contingent of us still at it in the skies over France even today with this game Thanks for your various comments posted on the FMs, very much appreciated....it does take a bit of work, don't know how you did/do so many, and some very hard ones to boot.

Available here at CA when approved. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...amp;showcat=213 These really are early war now especially H and Ls and early Pfalz variants ...and fit with upcoming Fokker Eindeckers by Laton, and others I am doing. So this is a must have download for a consistent feel and for compatability with 1915-16 planes. Hard and Normal Modes okay, harder in Hard for early planes of course!! The Zip file contains an Aircraft Folder, with data inis in their correct folders, so you just drop the Aircraft Folder into your First Eagles Objects folder, and overwrite existing FMs, or do individually if you prefer. See readme file.

Completely new alternative FMs for Borts great looking late 1916 planes. I used his versions available in mid April - I don't think they have changed. FMs available here at CA when approved. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...amp;showcat=213 Thanks to Bortdafarm for the great models, his permission to do new FMs, and his encouragement. Pack includes Albatros D.I, Halberstadt D.II, Halberstadt D.III and Fokker D.IIIL. All new FMs, redid previous versions of Halbs and FokkerD.IIIL, very much improved. And the Alb D.I FM is again better than D.IIs recently posted (will redo, think I built a Alb DIII for these ). Best in Hard FM, works in Normal. If you fly the SpadVII, Nieuport 17 or Nieuport 11 against an Ace/Veteran AI in any of these, you will have a long tough dogfight, with the result going either way (not kidding). Also if you fly these say against the SpadVII, similar situation - more on SpadVII below. Why?... Well these took lots and lots and lots of work, and I'd like to explain. I'm after FMs that are consistent with others in terms of relative capability/performance especially with these against planes such as N17 and Spad7 (of course some are much better than others as you'd expect). Most importantly a "balanced" player/AI aircraft - that is, the AI flies the plane nearly as well as the player, at least in Hard FM. And to eliminate annoying AI behavior (tight circling, looping, stalling, getting "stuck" at 0 mph, going to ground quickly etc etc). This made it a lots of work (especially Albatros!!! jeeees), but think pretty well achieved. Re Spad7, its not only fun to fly (a personal favourite), but is also one of the more "balanced" planes as well in the game. I used this for testing, after changing the the default AI stall speed from 20.74 to 14.74 - works a treat, and becomes a better AI (BTW this doesn't usually work, but the Spad7 FM is very good). Also if you make a copy and rename to say a 150HP version (the one available in reality first), then reduce power from SLPowerDry=130497.5 to SLPowerDry=111855.0 you get two great planes to fly, two great AI.

Bandy, as the Fokker D3L is up to V6.0, I'd say its a good bet that there may be more for some... HerGr, its a good idea about Zep, and Hinch I think is okay with that, but not anytime soon, doing to many others at moment.

Added file to CA download section.

Sorry, should be Laton and v. Deutschmark!

Superb stuff Laton and John, thank you very much for this plane - an excellent one all round, and good choice...how many games have this!!!!

Thanks Bucky and Christian, especially for posting after you tried them out and letting others know. I'll make it available at CA, as temp fiile as interim fix to hopefully an improved one from TK. If Bandy has changed power and said its okay I'll put this on CA as well, as the DFWC1. Otherwise can just do what you said, Christian and rename...probably doesn't make all that much difference. Thanks again.

Thanks Bwf, so many planes and skins....must have been a lot of work. Screenshots look very nice too. Its great to heve these wonderful creations of Borts available again - thankyou Bort.

Completely new FMs for Borts superb looking Albatros D.II series - and man, these Albs look the part. Available here at CA when approved. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...amp;showcat=213 Happy with my effort on these FMs, and quite tough to do - good feel to me , fit well with rest, good AI - both tough & well behaved. Thanks to Bortdafarm for the great models, his permission to do new FMs, and his encouragement.

Of course Firecage, there is another factor too that effects campaigns in terms of reality as well as start/end dates. That is how common etc planes are. Like most I made mine common or very common cos there were'nt that many others around for that time period etc. Someone started a list of start/end dates, hope they continue, and look at availability too now we have so many planes. Maybe get consensus, at least in theory to start.

Think their is a real difficulty with the stock DFW Bandy, and it was happening all the time for me at least - but have to give TK full marks, actually 110%, because he's trying to get a better plane for the game in the long run (different feel, behavior for bombers), and he will solve it....of course I could be all wrong about this. Guess that reducing power (assume you know how to do this) will result in probably a slightly better ie more stable plane for the C1 than the C5 (for my temp FM only), as well as reducing performance slighty. However cos you reduce power you have to check that it still takes off for the player okay in hard FM, AI will be fine. If it works just post at CA and join modding club if you want - I can't test or do this for a few weeks.

I'm not clear which plane or what the exact issue is Don, but if its the AI bobbing up and down in flight, then this is how you fix/reduce.....I'll assume for example its the FokkerD7 from your previous post. Open the FOKKERD7_DATA in the FOKKERD7 folder in the AIRCRAFT folder. Change the line PitchDamper=0.xx in the top of the file under [FlightControl], whatver xx is (do not have ini with me), and increase the xx value, eg say it was 0.5 increase to say 0.75 (up to 1.0) and try. If you change this you will notice that when you fly as player pitch will be smoother as well - you may or may not like this. That is, this change affects AI as well as Player - often the designer has done it like this for a reason (compromise re AI and feel of the plane for the player)....

I agree, that was very well put indeed Laton. And adds some balance to everything thats floating around at the moment. Personally, I like feedback too, and ask for it, for similar but slighly different reasons to Laton. Obviously to improve. Also to understand what people like and don't like - its an incentive to provide what people want and basically thats why i'm doing it (for myself as well of course), and to do that you have to experiment - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Feedback is good. And as you know I'm always ready to update FMs....too ready!! but Ilike the game, want things to get better. The other less obvious reason to most is that you work within constraints or a need to compromise when doing FMs (eg working in Normal and in Hard requires some compromise in itself, apart from being more work). Not many FE FM'ers are out there, and so most don't know really about these difficulties. If you raise something directly, you probablly know from my past track record that I'll respond explaining why, whether its a limitation or even something i haven't done well. I actually would like to see more in terms of comments in this forum - i think somehow people are just wary at the moment. Don't be, this game is evolving, now is the time to say what you like/want/expect - nicely of course, and of course nobody gets what they want all the time..... It'll be a better community too.....more discussion and sharing.

Yes the missions are good, like the feel that its sorta based on real events - I guess the immersion factor we all want. Re uploading DFW to CA d/l section, no issues, but as I can't fly now and maybe next couple of weeks, and only played a handful of missions with the DFW when I did this initially (it is fun to shoot down tho, quite nice to fly too), I'd like to know how it goes for others first, so let me know... Cheers

hi Bucky, like your missions, keep up the good work. re DFW there are some issues, actually 3 - ai parameters (the [AIData] not the first section ), the plane crashing and the looping - all different problems!! The last one is a complex one that I don't think anyone can fix except TK (which I am sure he will do). Anyway, like everyone I found this very frustrating, so applied applied some major surgey and got something that works well enough - I haven't played with this for two months and am travelling at moment so this is from memory- it works for player, takeoff is fine, hard/normal okay. AI will never crash plane, but sometimes does one loop/stall, then recovers. Doesn't happen often, and overall far far better. File attached, obviously only a temp fix to an annoying problem, TK will fix I am sure, but probably in a patch, not just a FM. But if it works for you or others I might post to the CA d/l section until that time...... DFWC5_DATA.txt Cheers

Thanks Laton. Just to let everyone know the changes are minimal. reducing roll on the planes a bit, more like early warbirds now, and will fit in well with others - Pfalz EIV an V, and others I am doing for early period. AI still just as good The 2 seaters have been modified a bit more - time was a factor in initial release.

Yes, thanks Laton, she'll be a real beaut (in ugly sort of way)....a good challenge, I'd guess as well. Thanks again.

Nice work, looks good.

Well, tweaked some, and added a few. No longer doing FokkerEIIILate since EIII pit updated. Have deleted previous download, and provided a new one with 6 FMs. Available in downloads section. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...amp;showcat=213 Fokker EIII - Tweaked, modded to fit with Bort's new cockpit Fokker EIV - Substantially redone. A bit of number crunching worked wonders Fokker BII, DII, DIII and DIIIL (late with Ailerons) - Several new FMs A few points: Written for Hard FM (hard everything actually). But flew Normal Mode all last night, they seem good, climb a bit strong (like most), but as AI are very good (well behaved), oddly enough better than maybe Hard FM. Perhaps all are..... Tested against N11 mainly, seems to fit in terms of capability and consistency. All take off fine. All the aircraft are different in major or minor ways - capabilities improve with later models. Tried to build according to real specs - dimensions power performance etc, tho info on some planes is scarce so had to guess. Increased roll a tad more than planned a few weeks ago - I found the AI finds it hard to fight unless this is the case. Basically gives up. The new Eindecker FMs are far better as AI, and spins/stalls reduced considerably as well, but will happen now and then, as do other things of course. The others seem good/realistic, but obviously not world beaters or very competitive against N11. Hoping for Bristol Scout, Morane etc, but later Fokkers are early 1917 as well. Damage modelling modified somewhat on the new FMs. Of course you will need Bortda's original models form here: http://www.ebort2.co.uk/FE.html and his most up to date E3 version, done early March. If any issues or questions let me know. Thanks again to Bortda for permission to do alternative FMs.

Thanks for encouragement Tailspin. I well remember the Albatros and your changes. Used them, liked them and flew only that for a month until all the others planes started coming out. Forget to say thankyou - was one of the quiet watchers at that time. It started me on moding FMs, so ....not sure really whether to thank you or..... Bringing up those changes you suggested people make at that time, encouraging them, has given me an idea, about my own FMs....more on that shortly. But gee, it is very quiet now, here and all the other FE forums as well. Hard to stir up any interest.

Thanks Tailspin and Bandy, not just for encouragement, but also for just being involved...more on that, actually the point of this post - another long one, sorry. BTW would still like feedback on the stall thing...its actually using stalls as wings vibrations and difficulties rather than stallling as such, didn't explain that clearly I guess. "The only problem I'm having is keeping up with the changes and keeping the ones I like separted from the ones I don't." Sorry tailspin, yep, and there is much else happening as well, new planes, other things. I'm going to redo from scratch the the ones I did of Borts or others eg, new Albs, now I feel adept in doing FMs. But also a bit FM'd out and going on holidays so it will take some time. i'll post one at a time, no more. And I do appreciate the patience that people have shown with my attempts. The reason for this post however is to throw some ideas around on modding and community involvement. My aim in terms of making planes reasonably consistent with ones available is why I did this in the first place and still feel its the right goal, there was/is very little really And thats how I will continue to do new FMs as well. But its a two edged sword too - eg, roll is overdone in just about all planes so I tend to put more roll than some would like. As I said its needed to make AI competitive (even to make it put up a fight!!!). As its not posible or feasible for various reasons for one person to mod all FMs for consistency I think its up to the individuals to do this, with some pointers and hopefully general discussion here on the forums on how to do it (don't necessarily need to point out or criticise particular planes). That is, maybe the community has to help themselves. It could be that there will be a set of FMs done by someone sometime (as in other TK games), but its probably going to be limited, and unlike other TW games these WWI FMs are actually easier to mod by novices. So I reckon its up to ourselves, everybody, to make the game work for themselves individually, as they would like it. It means those that have a real interest say in performance of early planes, then actually do some maybe simple mods to make them realistic, and then to ensure a level playing field, make similar changes to other planes as they see fit. Make their own consistency and how they feel they should should perform. Many people are trying modding all sorts of things - so it may not be too much to suggest that some do it on their FMs if interested. The aim would be to keep it reasonably simple. So how to get this stuff going???....well I'd like to suggest something that changes the roll on planes that people can do easily enough, and thats the involvement, plus perhaps feedback and commenting on it. As i said the roll on all planes is overdone, my opinion only of course, and in terms of capability and feel of planes its one of the three (climb - very difficult to reduce without consequences, but easily increased, turn maybe easy as well) - so one sorted out, maybe?? This example is for Morane H, but, a couple of points tho. If you make these changes, the AI is effected relatively to others in the sim - they are disadvantaged but not made worse in themselves - its a safe change in itself. And you can make these changes to all the planes, bonus is you can easily make some better or worse to suit your taste!!! I know it is some work, so many planes, but no one else is likely to do it for you, at least not soon. Another benefit is this change makes some planes that are unflyable in hard FM, flyable (may be other issues though in these eg takeoff etc) Other advantages are its very simple to do (if you have notepad, can locate the right data.ini, change two lines - 4, if 4 ailerons), and it doesn't change the "feel" of the plane really - may actually improve it as the planes feel less modern, less responsive. On the other hand if you reduce for example the Maxcontrolspeed= for Morane H by or the aileron roll capability Cldc= even by 10%, you will get a very "unfun" plane to fly, feels very very tight, and will also stuff up the AI - so you have to know what to do - why I'm pointing it out. For morane, in data.ini, "Control Surfaces" section near bottom of file locate [LeftAileron] and change ControlRate=4.0 to ControlRate=1.0. Do same for [RightAileron]. Thats it. Feels more like an early plane in terms of performance, and nice too! You can do this for any plane, certainly all mine. But, please contribute by posting what you think - helps others decide what to do and how to do it, encourages me and others to then point out other ideas - I have quite a few really, issues that are often quite easily resolved, eg, takeoff and planes that don't work that well in hard etc, but only really going to go into this if there is interest and involvement. Cheers

Borts redone his Eindeckers, and they are amazing . So with that I have updated the Eindecker FMs (and you need to d/l the current version at Borts site for these). Haven't yet done collision damaging, so posting here first so they can be used now and they fit with Latons new models. For feedback too .... please. Its a big change. i'm using stalls to simulate the difficulties in wing warping - see below for why, but started this with Moranes and decided to now go further. Only effects Hard FM of course, they are different in Normal of course given stalls are used so extensively, still work fine tho. And most of the early war stuff is okay in Hard FM, at least. Briefly the eindeckers are a less capable than previous version, but AI is much much better actually excellent, esp EIII (took some work). For player EIII is difficult but good, the EIV is a powerful but dangerous beast. In the spirit of trialling things, I've attached a new Morane H to try - same plane, different stalls - you'll spend most of your time trying to fly it and get it to do what you want in a dogfight - seems good way to mimic the difficulties of early craft, I like it a lot. Bonus is as its the same plane, the AI is still very good (the AI are not effected by stalls), at least for the least capable fighter plane in the sim so far , the Ls only slightly better - had to say that . I'd like feedback - if there is interest in this approach I might redo Laton's planes maybe an alternative version (but only changing stalls so don't ask)., and apply to some of the other ones I did of Borts. Try the H against the EIII - you might win, but you'll agree it was a difficuly fight! FokkerEIV_DATA.txtFokkerEIII_DATA.txtMSTypeH_DATA.txt Some thoughts about FMing, think I've earned the right to say these things, but feel free to skip of course: The AI won't work will just give up unless compared to other planes it has some climb, turn, or roll capability - if it has all three its an easier plane to do . And as the AI flies basically the same plane as the player, its a fine balancing act between underdoing the AI and overdoing the player plane especially the earlier ones - it takes some effort, for me at least 90% of the model. So, as the AI doesn't use climb well (and if good too easy for player), tight turns seem unrealistic to me, I give them some roll perhaps more than they should, but happily the AI uses roll very well. Now just about all the FMs have good rolls (even later ones are generally too good IMO even TKs), I'm just fitting in, if they were less I could reduce mine etc. And the reason I did Borts initially was to get some consistency with other planes, I'm not about developing a different independent set. As the AI flies the same plane, the player will always win (stating the very obvious), doesn't mean that the AIs plane is less capable, its how the game is set up and TW want it I presume. And most games have seperate FMs for players and AI without a doubt. In FE I like a particular relatively early plane and there isn't any other plane in the sim that can beat me in that as AI, and this is probably true of my earlier version of the EIII/IV too. BUT, there is a major but, the FMs can be done and AI parameters tuned to make them more effective without making that plane too good for the player (eg, super climb). So if you see a great AI it either that its overdone for the player or maybe just done really well!! It takes a lot of effort to get the balancing act right, I'm learning this as I go, I'm sure others are or have. And TK will continue to improve the game. Things will get even better, just takes time. In modelling flight characteristics, we've been very lucky there are some beauts out there - for me I love the feel of the Nieups and the Spad and Dolphin, some 2 seaters. But again, do they include the difficulties in flying these planes? I tried to make interesting planes in my first release of Borts - side forces, slipping several hundred feet when turning, many other things - it was a salutory experience, the AI didn't work and crashed all over the place!!!! The fact is the AI cannot handle planes that don't fly properly (as on rails), so modelling difficulties is not easy and remember this is based on a modern jet game. So wing warping for early planes, tendencies to pull or turn tightly (not torque - AI does not use torque) to one side like camel, and various other lovable quirks are difficult or impossible. AFAIK stalls is the real characteristic that can be used to model difficulties (tho Tex used locking ailerons to simulate diving difficulties and I'm going to give that a try). You can develop very realistic handling planes with all the quirks you want and you'd enjoy flying it of course, but no dogfights no AI - and really the AI is a lot more than half of this game and the work in FMs. Which brings me to the initial point re Eindeckers and Morane H - using stalls for wing warping. Sorry for long rant - been meaning to get this out since starting FMs on Borts planes.

The short answer Bandy, is no, I don't agree at all that the Ls are better than the Fokkers performance wise from a player pespective. They may feel that way (they have a light feel), they may be better AI, but, no they are not, I know I did them, and tried especially hard for consistency and upgrades for performance between the early planes up to Nieups. They are very easy meat for EIV/EIII (but decent AI, you don't want them to just dive to the ground? The AI is just as important), and don't even ask about the Halbs/Nieups. What you raised tho is really something else I think..... the game itself, overall performance of all planes, and the difficulty of flying planes esp early planes...ie, the universe and all that. This is not the right thread.... I'll post some thoughts to get them off my chest when I make the newer E.III FM available.

Well done Firecage, its great your doing this....must seem overwhelming at times. Keep up the good work, your campaign is the definitive one. Cheers Peter