ColStafford

Hope this is helpful to someone. Serial Numbers.pdfNorth American 2.pdf

The one one top looks closer to what they used on the Sabres to me. Opinions?

Got it downloaded and installed. I have no idea what I'm doing. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well something very unmanlike; read the directions!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Love to be able to pay but money is short at the moment. Will gimp provide the level to make the #s for the Sabres. Again if I insulted you I PUBICALLY Apologize!

Can anyone recommend a graphic editor?

One sided stories and comments is getting a little old. The main problem here stems from the fact that too many moders here wear their feelings on their shirt sleeves. Any comments are always taken as criticism. I am a longtime advocate of Wench’s works! I did not state that Wenches work was not TOTAL QUALITY. I simply stated it is HISTORICALLY INACCURATE. Not in type, but the #s themselves. I demonstrated WHY it was. I demonstrated the corrections. I provided the source to correct the problems . Making it 100% historically accurate for Korea. The MIG ALLEY/K.A.W. team is the one that stated they were; “RAISING THE BAR, A WHOLE NEW LEVEL, AN INTERNATIONAL EFFORT OF MONUMENTAL PROPORTION, HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, etc., etc.” Now 2+ years later. Nowhere is it stated that the Sabre package is a first run or beta package. Nowhere in the Sabre’s README file was it stated; “I'm going to show my cards here a bit, but know there are several other aircraft in various stages of work that are part of the KAW mod. I have hi-def models of the Sabres that are about 90% built and mapped...all with proper windscreens, hard and slatted wings, and gunports (including the early 'gun door' models and the GUNVAL).” As to the comment; “Also, the OP was part of the KAW initially, but was 'released' from the team because he did not contribute anything to the mod except criticism with no attempts at fixing the 'issue' himself other than references (ie couldn't even be bothered to do ini editing).” Wrench; himself is the one that brought me into the MIG ALLEY/K.A.W. group. Why; because in his own words, I was the Sabre Expert and my attention to detail. Again I was, RELEASED FROM THE TEAM, for making comments. I shared with Fast Cargo that the cockpit in the F-82 Twin Mustang was out of alignment. Hard to do when you do not have the ini file to start with! No; I don’t know 3D animation or drawings . No; I don’t know how to do skins. ( If I was instructed how; I’d build a ton!) My knowledge of flight model construction is VERY LIMITED. No one shares much information on flight models, except Fubar. If a flight model manual was constructed, there would be no problem. Then the bar would be raised! What I did do for the team was provide Very Detailed Drawings of the Sabres. I provided VERY DETAILED decals and service stencils for the F-86. I offered every Dash 1 manual I own. So all in all I have personally contributed well over $300 in the Sabre’s alone. As to Wrench’s comment; “How many mods have YOU done, at nearly 100% historical accuracy?” You well know how many. My packages where the most comprehensive Sabre packages at the time. Flight models were constructed with ACTUAL specifications of the Sabre, and my VERY limited knowledge of converting actual specifications and data into STRIKE FIGHTERS data. Extracted from Wrench’s Readme; “The F-86A, although capable of (most) Ground Attack mission tasking, has had said tasking limited to it's primary function: Air Superiority. Meaning: CAP, Sweep and Intercept ONLY!!! In Korea, they were never used as Fighter Bombers YES THEY WERE WRENCH. But in doing so they could not carry drop tanks! That is why sub-types were important! -- E's were used as such by the South Africans, and the F was designed as a Fighter-Bomber. Use the A as the Good Folks at NAA intended -- Killing MiGs. Even though the various folders are 'named variants', that was simply done for our convience. When in game you'll see "F-86A" or "F-86E" or "F-86F". Again, this was basically done to cut through the bulls**t; nobody really gives a flying farting rat's ass as to the exact sub-variant (and there were at least 15 differing sub-types that I've stumbled across). An A is and A; and E is an E and an F is an F. (TELL THAT TO THE PILOTS THAT FLEW THEM,FOUGHT IN THEM, AND THE GROUND CREWS MAINTAINING THEM.) In truth, all new physical models ARE needed for ALL of them .. but the KAW 3D Team was 'overtaken by events' in Real Life, and they were never completed. Perhaps, at some later date, they will be finished and get released. Until such time you'll just have to live with the various and sundry little 'glitches and so forth'. Or build your own. Also, I know there's people out there that like to make "personal adjustments" to their aircraft downloads. My advice to you: DON'T f*** WITH THESE!!!!” These comments were made to discredit my work on previous Sabre Packages, and to wipe the slate clean. My only assets are: The Sabre is my ALL TIME FAVORITE aircraft. I own almost every book published on the Sabre. I own every Dash1 manual of every model. I am a Commercially Licensed Pilot. With well over 2,000 of REAL flight time. Instrument Rated. Multi-engine Rated. Jet Type and Speciality Rated. A. Lear 35 and 52. B. Cessna Citation. C. P/F-51D Mustang. Quote from Fast Cargo; “What you, the community could do for us...one or several of you could take the lead in putting together a complete, coherent KAW package, with consistent, proper menus, hanger screens, etc. You could also document what parts of the mod need what SF2 programs. If that can be cut down or at least fully documented, it could make it easier to come up with a mod that doesn't require as many of the SF2 programs as possible (plus I'd hate to see that Meteor go to waste)...” Last I was informed; eburger68, was assembling the MIG ALLEY/K.A.W. This was something I offered to do for the group. The main problem here is the fact this forum is a good ole boys club. It is NOT a true open forum where topics can be discussed. SAD! If offence was taken? I am enough of a man to be the first to say, I’m Sorry!!!!!

No insult intended. I just offered information.

Now that all being said. Consult the book: Mig Alley Sabres -vs- MIGS Over Korea Warren E. Thompson and David R. McLaren Appendix A Pages 165-170 for a list of Sabres assigned to Korea. Hope this helps.

http://www.joebaughe...safserials.html ""On July 2, 1926, the Army Air Service was renamed the United States Army Air Corps (USAAC). On June 20, 1941, the USAAC was renamed the United States Army Air Force (USAAF). On September 18, 1947, the United States Army Air Force was split off from the US Army and became a separate service, the United States Air Force. Throughout all of these changes the earlier fiscal-year serial number system remained unchanged. In 1947, at about the same time that the USAF was officially formed, DoD regulation 5304.9003 was promulgated which required that the sequence number now have at least 3 digits. This means that fiscal year serials with individual sequence numbers less than 100 are filled up with zeroes to bring them up to 3 digits in length. So 48-1 is written as 48-001 in official documentation. Sequence numbers greater than 9999 are written with 5 digits. In 1958, the minimum number of digits in the sequence number was raised to four, so that the 1958 aircraft series started at 58-0001. " "The Technical Data Block is still in used today, although it is now called the Aircraft Data Legend, and by the early 1990s it was reduced in size to letters only 1/2 inch high and moved to a new position hear the ground refuelling receptacle. For a few years during the late 1940s and early 1950s, the serial number displayed in the Technical Data Block often carried a suffix letter, which was not actually part of the official serial number. Five letters were used--A for US Air Force, G for US Army, N for Air National Guard, R for Air Force Reserve, and T for Reserve Officers Training Course (ROTC). For a while the letter M was used for USAF aircraft associated with American embassies in foreign countries, but this use was discontinued in August 1955. The lack of a readily-visible serial number on Army aircraft began to be a serious problem, and on October 28, 1941, shortly after the USAAF had been formed, an order was given that numbers of no less that 4 digits would be painted on the tail fin of all Army aircraft (where feasible) in a size large enough to be seen from at least 150 yards away. This was officially called the radio call number, but was almost universally known as the tail number. Since military aircraft were at that time not expected to last more than ten years, the first digit of the fiscal year number was omitted in the tail number as was the AC prefix and the hyphen. For example, Curtiss P-40B serial number 41-5205 had the tail number 15205 painted on its tail fin, Curtiss P-40K serial number 42-11125 had the tail number 211125 painted on the fin, and P-51B 42-106559 had 2106559 painted on the tail. Since the Army (later Air Force) used the last four digits of the tail number as a radio call sign, for short serial numbers (those less than 100), the tail number was expanded out to four digits by adding zeros in front of the sequence number. For example, 41-38 would have the tail number written as 1038. Consequently, in most situations for a World War II-era aircraft where the tail number is visible, you can deduce the serial number simply by putting a dash after the first digit, prefixing a 4, and you automatically have the serial number. Unfortunately, there were many deviations from these rules--there are examples in which only the last 4 or 5 digits were painted on the tail, which makes identification of the aircraft particularly difficult. In the 1950s, many airplanes left over from the World War II era were still in service, exceeding their expected service lives of less than 10 years. In order to avoid potential confusion with later aircraft given the same tail number, these older aircraft had the number zero and a dash added in front of the tail number to indicate that they were over 10 years old. It was hoped that this would avoid confusion caused by duplication of tail numbers between two aircraft built over ten years apart. However, this was not always done, and it was not always possible uniquely to identify an aircraft by a knowledge of its tail number. This practice was eventually discontinued when people started refering to the number 0 as being a letter O, standing for Obsolete. The requirement for the 0- prefix was officially dropped on April 24, 1972. In 1958, a regulation was promulgated which decreed that that the tail number should be expanded to a minimum of 5 digits in length. Sometimes the tail number was cut down in length to five digits by deliberately omitting both of the fiscal year digits--for example 64-14841 would be presented on the tail as 14841. Sometime, one or more of the first digits of the sequence number would also be omitted. This practice lead to a lot of confusion." Serial Numbers of North American F-86A Sabre 47-605/637 North American P-86A-1-NA Sabre c/n 151-38432/38464 48-129/316 North American F-86A-5-NA Sabre c/n 151-43498/43685 49-1007/1339 North American F-86A-5-NA Sabre c/n 161-1/333 Serials of F-86E Sabre 50-0579/0638 North American F-86E-1-NA Sabre c/n 170-1/60. 50-0639/0689 North American F-86E-5-NA Sabre c/n 170-61/111. 51-2718/2849 North American F-86E-10-NA Sabre c/n 172-1/132. 51-12977/13069 North American F-86E-15-NA Sabre c/n 172-268/360. Originally intended as F-86F-15-NA 52-2833/2892 Canadair F-86E-6-CAN Sabre Ex-RCAF Sabre Mk 2.

Oh. Sorry guess all my library of books and Dash 1 manuals are wrong. LOL. Great Mod!

Noticed that the new Sabre packages for KAW have been removed from the download section. I had download the A,E,F models that were featured at one time. Have not had a chance to fly them yet. But in looking at the mod noticed that the Tail #s on the A and E models only have 4 numbers instead of 5. And the cockpit on the F model is way out of calibration. Is is only an observation and NOT a complaint.

Absolutely ESTATIC over your new flight model. Question: Noticed the Control Surface movement values differ greatly from actual geometric data published on the Sabre. Why? Shortcomings of the Basic Simulation? Work-a-round? Artistic Flair? Have you made model a high quality Model for the MiG-15? Have you made a high quality Model for the A,E, and Slat Wing F's.

Nice to see the Sabres got a calibrated cockpit!

Many Tears actually shed on this discovery! Thank you for your service and your example! One Last Step for a Man! One Giant Leap for Mankind! Rest in the Arms of the Lord. And please say hello to my Dad. You both where my heroes!

Thanks for responding Ed! And Congrats on a beautiful FM! Agreed. But pitch up seems to be 2-3 times too strong. At least with my install. Forced to use Full Foward Stick to compensate. Is there a way too adjust it? Do you also have a flight model of the E? Again Congrats!!!!!!!!