Dark_Knight_667th

Guys.. I'm well into bringing all the fighter FM's pretty close to the real deal. I'm now just waiting for the tool(s) from TK for setting the variables. SDirickson..I have no problem nailing a MiG 19 with the tweaked F100, but there is a trick to it. DK

pc, reason for this I have found is there is no fuel weight in the cargo's. I'm working on that ..in the meantime..try landing with takeoff flaps only DK

z axis (rudder) for some reason also moves the ailerons. This shouldn't be the case IRL when a pilot applies rudder, the rudder is the only thing that moves..aileron isn't automatically added, if the pilot wants to increase bank he has to roll the aircraft (y axis) to the desired angle and apply more rudder to keep the turn coordinated. DK

is my goal with the next phase of the Flight model tweaks. I think I have the engine thrusts down pretty well on all but the bombers. There was a thread posted about the mig 17..the thrust value you used was the engine w/o burner..not with, its 7,452 lbs with the burner, the 5952 is without burner, result of the new thrust, though don't try to climb near stall..they pitch down just above stall, and only do so if you are chasing them...they then drag you low and try to keep you low and slow now, more high and low yo yos now from the AI and the -17 is still just as vicous, its fuel consumption is WAY down, had a dogfight with one in the Ssabre that lasted 11 minutes..then his wing got me. (bastard) F104 was about 2000lbs underpowered..with data at 1% in spec, it now hits mach 2 as it should..haven't found a solution to the rudder..I think that will take tk and crew although while watching the control surfaces in the external I noticed that when max rudder is applied, the ailerons move with the rudder..its the same on all aircraft..but I wonder if somehow in the F104 ini and dat if the inputs are reversed on the ailerons when the rudder is moved.. Phantom was a bit overpowered..by 300 lbs on the B, C, and D, and about 700 lbs on the E.. Mig 21 was 400 lbs underpowered. Mig 19 was within 2%..its now within 1% A4 was underpowered by about 1500 lbs..its now within 1% of engine thrust. When they are finished, I plan on zipping them up and sending them over to TK for his thoughts. as well as a list of sources for the data I used. Andy has proved to be a very good resource for a lot of this. Dagger, I think you will love the reworked F104 Engine..she's a thrill ride now..here's the screenshot taken as she departed controlled flight at 88,000 feet..entered a cartwheel spin.. http://members.cox.net/cptdarkknight/perso...cord%20F104.jpg A lot of the thrust figures I used come from www.fas.org and www.wpafb.af.mil/museum if anyone wants to check them out. all data on the phantoms came from the latter..fas.org only had data on the F4g that I could find. DK

I'm havin problems with CAS..they send me to an area to bomb and strafe..load up an A4 and go hunting..they said they was attackin..but I don't see nobody down there..thought about landing and asking for directions...that and Radar control keeps tellin me to contact snoopy..who the hell is snoopy and how do I contact him? and wth is a dog doin in the middle of a desert? Beagles and their flyin doghouses... DK

Column..my figures are based on the data at the website you provided with a lbs to kn conversion of 4.442, You might want to go and take a look at the B, C, and E models on that site you gave me.. DK

Not at all.. What I am changing is the max values..of all the others that I have been able to verify, the numbers used in calculating how much pitch or how much roll seem to be pretty close..they could be closer..but I'm not changing those yet. Here is what I have changed Max thrust Stall speeds for the Mig 17, 19, and 21s, looking for same data on the flyables max internal fuel loads when I could verify em, and thanks to russky I got those for the migs Wing area, when I can find the data and it doesn't match..example, the F100 was off a bit here. now corrected.. these tweaks I am doing are going to take long after the first patch..I would say January or february before I will feel they are truly ready for public use. Even with just changing the maximum values for each aircraft I am noticing a remarkable improvement in performance..the rates that the aircraft hit these max values I don't know if they will be 100 percent verifiable if changed..so I haven't changed them yet. From the hud debug the following aircraft are hitting their marks: for top speed all A-4's, Mig 17, F100, IL28 and F104, Climb Performance: F100, Mig 17, All A4s, F104 rest untested, Finding the data is difficult..just the changes to the F100 alone took me 6 hours to find matching data from at least three sources. on the F104 Andy was able to provide me a link that provided the third source for it. I've found a set for the Phantoms, am currently using that data and trying to corroberate it as we speak. :casstet: So, once these figures are in, the FM's will be put in a folder until such a time that TK does release a FM tool for us to use.. Once they are finished, tested, retested, and triple tested for the authenticity of the data, they will then be forwarded to TK for possible inclusion in an FM update of some sort..if he chooses not to do so, then we will cross that bridge when we come to it. DK

The mig 17 IRL had the ability to carry droptanks..could someone find and then build a set of drops for it? I've figured out how to add em to the loadouts for long range air to air DK

If you go by individual designation there column..the thrust was steadily increased from the B forward Max thrust of teh B was 7800, C was 8400 and the E was 8500, with those figures, the trhust of the A4 out of the box is still incorrect cd stock they all use 7800 lbs thrust DK

Don't bomb the runway..bomb the control tower next to the runway :D DK

This was posted by Andy Bush over at SimHQ after he tested the LEF tweak: Regards the F-100 tweak... It seems to me to make the jet a little more responsive at speeds below 300KIAS. My test was to fly a loop, starting at 250KIAS. The tweaked FM seemed to have more of a positive pitch feel as the jet went "over the top". Less tendency to wallow about. The uncommanded rolling tendency is still there and is just as severe as in the unmodded version. IMO, this rolling tendency just about destroys the F-100 FM when maneuvering at high AOA. The slats are still functioning with airspeed and not AOA. Probably not a big deal. The major negative effect of this would be in an extension from low speed. If the slats remained out until a certain speed is attained (as they do now) rather than coming up as soon as the jet is unloaded, then there may be a drag factor to consider that may slow down the acceleration. Overall, the tweak seems to have a positive effect on jet handling without being too "arcadish". As for now, I say go with it. Nice job. DK

I've been busy in the SF files since the release of the LEF tweak. I've just about finished a set of further tweaks to all aircraft according to data found at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/index.htm and http://www.fas.org/index.html. Only ones left to do are the bombers I've found that with proper thrust with and without afterburner the AI continue to react better, Mig 17's are now trying the low and slow dogfight tactics they were historically known for against the Nato flyables, about the only aircraft that can stay somewhat behind the mig below 300 knots is the A4's which I haven't finished tweaking yet. The migs can still outclimb the SSabre but I doubt they can outclimb the phantom..it has twice the thrust. I'm awaiting further data on it for IRL best cornering speeds, stall speeds, max performance climb speeds and angles and best performance climb speed and angle I'm slowly finding all of this data on the other aircraft as well. When finished I plan on submitting the tweaked dat files to TK for his input as well as Andy Bush for his. List of things done so far Mig 17 engine data now corrected: results are more realistic behavior from the AI flying the Migs, fuel lasting almost twice as long (11 minute dogfight with Mig 17 in Supersabre from speeds above mach 1 down to near stall speed..his wing got me..bastard ) F104 G top speed now realistic but as I have it set now..the thrust I think is a bit too high..see the screenshot: http://members.cox.net/cptdarkknight/Mach%20guage.jpg Andy Bush has provided me a link to some further data on the Starfighter..I will be perusing it as soon as I finish this post. I think with tweaked out FM's we are going to see a bunch of very different combat behavior from the AI..and as of yet..I haven't seen anything from the AI I don't like..Mig 17s are now attempting High and Low Yo Yo's in an effort to gain an advantage with the new thrust..its looking really good. F100 thrust was right on the money, no changes there..Mig 21 was underpowered in the Dat files..found good data on it at the above sites as well. Mig 19 was after conversion back to lbs about 100 lbs of thrust off..tweaked to exact numbers..these are all assuming the data at these websites are correct..in comparision with three or four other sites..they seem to be in agreement. DK

Hey man..got a favor to ask..know those speed tests where you took off in an F100 and A4 fully loaded and had problems getting em off the deck?..I'd like you to try something and tell me if it makes a difference Drop me a line at cptdarkknight@cox.net DK

would that be fat and shallow? :shock: :D DK

Just fyi for the gang here..quick multiplayer test with JD and a few others..all knowing about the tweaked FM..all commented on the better turns..but in the right hands..their migs still tore us up..better climb etc of the mig..but..any improvement is an improvement DK

Heh..2v2 could probably be easily arranged..coop style intercept should do the trick.. DK

Well vercing.. After the patch that info will be greatly appreciated..what will be needed though is how the values in the Dat files are derived from performance data..is it done by percentage increase of wing area etc..this "fix" only swaps the origional data put in by TK and crew to fix a shortcoming with the LEF's..If you've tried the fix..you will notice how differently these fixed files make the F100 handle in a turning dogfight..it takes the dog out of the word and makes it a knive fight instead..Having put a good three weeks worth of stick time into SF campaign so far..and beating it once in the F100 I noticed the difference right off created by this tweak..the effect was a real eye opener to say the least..nothing against TK and crew..they do their best with what they have..starting a company from the ground up and doing a first release like this can stretch resources to newspaper thin and even thinner extremes..they did good work..I am thinking what I fixed may have just been a mis-entry on the part of the Flight Model data guys..not a big error..but it makes a big difference in the Sabre..Looking at the other values there isn't as much of a seperation between deployed or retracted..so other aircraft may not show as pronounced of an effect My next days off from work I intend with some knowing participants to try and see if this also affects the online FM of the F100..I'll be in Hyperlobby Monday Evening CST USA for testing..(hopefully) anyone wanting to help out and volunteers to put a stock F100 against mine with these files to see what, if any, differences are in guns only please let me know so I know who to look for..there have been many questions raised if these would affect the online FM..there is only one way to find out..try it online.. DK

As I just did this this morning I haven't tested it..but Armour Dave as well as a few others now have the zip its also posted here..further testing will be required to find the full extent of what these changes do overall..since strikefighters looks at files outside of the cab folder first, if any, I suspect that it would affect multiplayer..by creating the zip file ans getting it up for download I am hoping that until the patch, the updated ones being available to the public means that they will be used by the public as a whole..not construed as a cheat..these changes are in no way meant to be a cheat against the stock FM's..just a correction of the stock data by swapping of the two entries only..these are the only changes made..I pan to test this out at length with other members of the 667th to see what we find..I would imagine that the patch, since TK has said the FM data will be tweaked will probably include this fix..if not even more accurate data..I just used what was provided. Here is a link to the zip: http://theblackknights.50megs.com/sf/dl/f100fix.htm Here is the link for the discussion..same topic over at simHQ (no offense Jeff) http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bb...TML/002551.html I suspect that armourdave will probably host it on skunkwerks as well. I've also posted this on the SimHQ forums for people to check into at test out. I can't stress enough that the editable FM data should not be used to cheat..it should however be used to bring about a higher level of realism where neccessary which is my reasoning behind this modification to the stock files. It is my wish that either third party or by thirdwire themselves that a way for online players to check the validity of the open files be included. What is accepted by the public as norm should be the check..the balance being able to restrict entry into online games to those whose files match the accepted norm. Cheating in any game is an open admission of lack of skill. To master a flight sim, such as SF or as extreme as F4 should be skill, not cheats DK

While checking this out in the A4 FM data I noticed something else..Fuselage damage value shows destroyed..but wing, stab etc say disabled for the damage values..could this be why when you blow the wing off an enemy aircraft it hits the ground but doesn't explode? I'm curious if these were changed for the wings if this would result in the aircraft blowing up when it hits the ground.. DK

Just learned the hard way..let one of those slippery bastards get behind you and you still have problems though..LOL.. Here's some more benefits of this..your AI wings are now more successful in their attacks as well..even though I just shot down..my AI wing had two kills..us two vs six mig 19s..They also don't fall behind near as bad at take off nor when they do those break away turns when coming into formation..they still don't follow the commands of break, rtb or ground attack though..LOL but all in all..its appearing like this little tweak to the F 100 is a keeper..still looking for feed back from you guys on it..has anyone else tried it yet? DK

In a little further probing I found a similar thing with the F4b, C, and D model's..however the E model has it correct..will check on the migs next Added Later: Upon further checking..none of the Migs or the SU7 appear to have LEF's modelled..not sure but didn't the Mig 19 and up have LEF's? DK

Methinks I created a monstor when I sent him that skin..I just asked him to do his famous touch for the 667th...LOLOL OK..in all honesty..Rudel was and is one of the best skinners there ever was in Janes FA18..take a look at the FA18 resource link in his sig..alot of that is his work. He's even taught me a trick or two in Photoshop..though I'm nowhere near as good as he is..I can generally cause enough damage to it now to give up in disgust..LOL DK

-sniiifff- "I love the smell of napalm in the morning...." DK

Great work Q..one thing I have noticed in my 15 years or so of watching aircraft of all shapes and sizes..especially the burner types..and having suffered a low level pass by a B1 in my car on the interstate once..(the image is permanently burned in my head btw) at night I got first hand look at afterburner flames..I think the crew of that bone wanted to have a bit of fun on the poor guy in the white pontiac cruisin down below...how did I know it was a Bone? Tell me what else flies routinely at what I would guess 500 feet level and has four afterburners..I nearly put my shiny new pontiac in a ditch..LOL.. Ok where was I...oh yeah..one thing I noticed about the burners was the two outboard engines on that bone the burners were different color than the inboards..asked a friend of mine who flies F16s in the KS ANG about it..something to do with 1. fuel quality and 2. Engine condition..He said the whiter the burner..the more recent the rebuild or new installation...just some info for future burner effects.. DK

Is there someplace in the SF directory that it generates a .txt crashlog? If not..is there some way a utility could be created that would for submittal to TK? DK