Down in Flames

[Wodin]

See if Matrix Games will be willing to publish your game. I'm sure they will be interested.

[meconicuk]

Hi People..

 

I'm currently in the process of making a ww1 flight sim, and thought i'd pop in and introduce myself.

I'm happy to have found a forum where people can talk about WW1 aviation. there aren't many.

 

(click for bigger)

Here's the planes so far... Player Flyable

Project Homepage :- here

 

I've made good progress, and i'm happy with it, but the project really needs a coder.. i'm an artist by profession, and it's slow going learning coding from the ground up.

 

The BV engine is quite simple to program, if you have any experience, which unfortunately, i don't. Can *you* help? I'm a singleseat indie developer with no money, so unfortunately, i can't pay anything. (best to clear that up, before we start, eh?). The singleplayer game/campaign game will most likely be given away as freeware, because i find the notion of making money from WW1, a bit questionable. I'd also like to run a multiplayer server for it, though that can be bolted on when the singleplayer campaign is finished. If you're interested in helping out, please PM me..

 

Texturing isn't super-duper-high-res-photo-realistic.. because i wanted the game to be playable online,

and to have as many planes on screen as is possible. similarly, thats why i've used OpenGL, as opposed

to DX9/10... because i'd like as many people to play it as possible, on the widest range of machines.

 

cheers...

 

kendo353

 

____________

 

Hello Ken.

 

I've just registerred for the CombatAce Forum after looking at your DIFlames website. Very impressive from what I saw on display. The broad selection of aircraft are well chosen(especially the early 'warbirds'). The image you have with the six control dials running along the bottom of the screen looks well set out. However: it was your mentioning of Erik Satie as part of the 'soundtrack' that prompted me to write this e-mail.

 

Could you elaborate on the type/style of music/soundclips you hope to include within DIFlames?..as I've always thought this helps create period atmosphere.

 

All the best with the project.

Mac.

[+kendo353]

Hi Mac,

 

The image you have with the six control dials running along the bottom of the screen looks well set out.

cheers... that's just a test hud for the external view, the cockpit views should have better dials with working pointers.

 

Could you elaborate on the type/style of music/soundclips you hope to include within DIFlames?..as I've always thought this helps create period atmosphere.

Gnosienne No.4 plays behind the menu screens. I'd hunted around for period pieces, but the recordings are somewhat scratched and badly

recorded (wax cylinders anybody? lol..). I toyed with the idea of using military brass bands, but that's been done to death too. Too brash,

triumphant, and Imperialist. Satie seemed most appropriate. At 1898, it's not too far fetched to suppose that he was listened to on a wind up

gramophone somewhere.

 

my great-great-grandmother used to play music for silent films, and i've inherited a lot of period sheet music.

unfortunately, i don't play the piano that well myself, but i do know a man who tunes and plays grand pianos

for a living. i'm hoping the greater part of the game soundtrack will be solo piano pieces. either jaunty music

hall numbers, or more reflective works, such as Satie.

[+kendo353]

See if Matrix Games will be willing to publish your game. I'm sure they will be interested.

Thanks for the suggestion, Wodin. I like what Matrix games do, a lot.

but the project is non-profit making, and i don't think any publisher would be interested in those circumstances?

[+Gr.Viper]

Have you tried registering at sourceforge? It might be useful to find some people with coding skills..

 

And these two sites specialize in independent game developers so the guys who run them might be interested in writing something on DiF.. I don't see much filght sims there anyway cause they are hard to make

http://indygamer.blogspot.com/

http://www.tigsource.com/

Edited March 1, 2007 by Gr.Viper

[+kendo353]

Hi Gr.Viper,

 

Have you tried registering at sourceforge?

no...I thought SF was just for people to give away their source code.

cheers for the suggestions. will investigate..

[+Gr.Viper]

I saw a number of game mods on SF.. I don't suppose they contain much source code..

[meconicuk]

Hi Ken:thanks for prompt reply.

 

Re'Music.

 

If you get the chance have a look at the DVD of 'ACES HIGH'(1976 Malcom McDowall). Apart from being an excellent film ; it has 2 good musical pieces...

 

1.The main theme from the film;which I "think" is an RAF march called 'Aces High'. Although played by a Miltary Band it doesn't come across as too triumphant or overbearing; but seems to capture the 'jauntiness' of the then new military service.

 

2.'It's the Only Only Way' sung round a piano in the Squadron Mess: a comical song about the problems of getting a confirmed kill.

 

In the movie there's also some good short soundclips, the one that comes to mind is the short breifing given on why it's so hard to shoot down observation balloons.

If you can't get hold of the film let me know and I'll try to send you some short mpegs of the relevant scenes.

 

RE' you comment about 1898 Satie music being listened to on a gramaphone; you might also consider useing certain Ragtime scores( the slower melodic ones) as this type of popular music might have been looked on as the 'rock and roll' of the 1900's decade.

 

All the best.

Mac.

[+kendo353]

If you get the chance have a look at the DVD of 'ACES HIGH'(1976 Malcom McDowall).

isn't he the actor who played Captain Walker in the "Tommy" film?

i've been meaning to purchase Howard Hughs's "Hells Angels" for a while, so i'll get them both at once.

thanks for the recommend, Mac.

 

but there is the possibility we may get spanked for sampling licensed material.

I might be able to serrepticiously lift some "background ambience" samples, but whole themes or scenes

may attract unwanted attention from lawyers. As it's a free project, it might slip under their radar, but it's

still a gamble.

 

you might also consider useing certain Ragtime scores( the slower melodic ones) as this type of popular music might have been looked on as the 'rock and roll' of the 1900's decade.

i like the sound of that. a cheery note to juxtapose Satie's minimalism.

a good rag is every bit as timeless. cheers for the suggestion.

 

@ Gr.Viper

my mistake. when i've visited SF before, it was to get source code to learn from.

i wrongly assumed that was all that they did there.

[+Gr.Viper]

What about the march which is the theme music of Monty Python's Flying Circus?

Liberty Bell march it's called

 

Really old recording http://ia311532.us.archive.org/0/items/Edi...tyBellMarch.mp3

Sounds great

You can always google for better quality records

 

P.S. Some other pieces by the same composer might be also of use. Look for John Philip Sousa.. he composed marches from 1877 to 1930 - 136 of them in total according to this page http://www.dws.org/sousa/content/view/22/30/

Edited March 2, 2007 by Gr.Viper

[+kendo353]

What about the march which is the theme music of Monty Python's Flying Circus?

lol... great tune, good idea.... very apt, with the "Flying Circus" reference too.

i'll see if it fits in. i wouldn't want people to think the whole game is a joke, though

making them smile every time they load the game up might not be a bad thing.

 

he composed marches from 1877 to 1930 - 136 of them in total according to this page

thanks for the links, Gr.Viper. not a composer i knew very much about, apart from the Liberty Bell.

 

being honest with you... "soundtrack" is the cherry on the cake.

there is a whole bunch of stuff to be done before that day comes.

appreciate the suggestions though. thanks guys...

[Smosh]

I'm not sure if this has been asked before but will it be possible to fly a campaign in a bomber? I've just been having fun playing FE lately flying the Aviatik doing Recon instant missions that I had to ask :yes:

[+kendo353]

will it be possible to fly a campaign in a bomber?

 

if your squadron flies bombers, yes.

 

[+Gr.Viper]

This one looks great..

How is FM stuff going?

[+kendo353]

How is FM stuff going?

slowly, but surely, Gr.Viper.

 

JSBsim looked promising, but i'm trying to come up with a

homebrewed solution which doesn't rely on external code.

 

I have these functions, which should do the job..

SetLinearVelocity( Vector (x,y,z) );

SetAngularVelocity( Vector (x,y,z) );

AddForce( Vector (x,y,z) );

but a lot of the equations on flight dynamics sites are in GREEK...

(which means i get a bit bogged down and confused some times).

 

sticking with it though.

 

:yes:

[Smosh]

 

if your squadron flies bombers, yes.

 

 

I was in a good mood this morning. It's Friday and my band and 4 others are playing tonight. Now I check the forums and I get this news. I'm ecstatic

[+kendo353]

It's Friday and my band and 4 others are playing tonight.

yeah?, me too. hope it goes well for you, Smosh.

 

[Smosh]

yeah?, me too. hope it goes well for you, Smosh.

 

 

Please keep it down. I have a hangover

[+kendo353]

Please keep it down. I have a hangover

shouts:- DEPERDUSSIN @ top of voice

 

i read this on the journeys.. "The Aeroplane speaks" by H.Barber. from the gutenberg archive.

after a global search/replace of the word 'Drift' for 'Drag', everything made perfect sense. it was more fun to read than "practical flying", too.

 

[Smosh]

shouts:- DEPERDUSSIN @ top of voice

 

Sounds like some sort of Aspirin

"After a big night out make sure you take your DEPERDUSSIN".

[Norman Prince]

Hello ,

I am a flight sim who loves WW1 because the planes, especially early on, were a challenge to fly. Raoul Lufbury and Norman Prince started in Vosins and Chauldrons in order which allowed them to develop the flying skills to become the top pilots in the Esc124, shown in Flyboys. Behind the scenes, Lufbury was such a good mechanic that he kept his plane working better then the rest. I like the title " Down in Flames" and play all the Sims from RB3d to OFF. I also have all the Sims working on my computer systems including Blue Max, Knights of the Sky and all the ace series. On plane selection,

one of the most extensive was FSWW1 mod for Scream Demons. They have an early Austrian Taube. Being able to navigate the landscape and weather patterns was a critical part of that period. The Red Baron early on almost lost his life in a thunder storm and Norman Prince lost his life hitting an unseen wire. These are hard to model and to some are not enough shooting. But they will never have a sense of what was important to those fighters of that period. Each game produced has strong and weak points. Of interest, my addons of CSF2 WW1 affects showed the affects of antiaircraft which caused wind disturbance as well as shrapnel. The one game I lost from running was Wings of Glory which was more like a diary with interaction with pilots in the squadron. This was unique for flight sims and some diehards still wish to play this but seems the designer made this game so there is a problem running it. I also have trouble with Flying Circus by Empire crashing back to windows. That game was suppose to have very accurate flight models and landscape taken from actual photos of the front. Sorry I get carried away and wish you the best on your creation. Will talk later.

Daryld

[+kendo353]

I like the title " Down in Flames"

thanks for that... some people are uncomfortable with it, and it's nice to hear different points of view.

 

play all the Sims from RB3d to OFF. I also have all the Sims working on my computer systems including Blue Max, Knights of the Sky and all the ace series.

respect for the open minded attitude. I'm like you... i have and play most of them, too.

i don't understand people who maintain that their chosen preference is "best".

 

Each game produced has strong and weak points.

excellent point, daryld. it's very hard, if not impossible, for one game to contain absolutely everything.

 

The Red Baron early on almost lost his life in a thunder storm and Norman Prince lost his life hitting an unseen wire. These are hard to model and to some are not enough shooting. But they will never have a sense of what was important to those fighters of that period.

nod... I have routines for an occasional engine failure on takeoff, but stuff like getting hit by a lightning bolt is a bit harder to cater for. also, if you start off early in the war, you may be armed with only a service revolver... a couple of dozen single shots, and then fly home... it might not please some people (who are used to rapid fire chaingun action), but it was what the early aviators did, wasn't it?

 

the affects of antiaircraft which caused wind disturbance as well as shrapnel.

that should be fairly easy to model in... when stuff explodes it has a burst radius, and strength of force.

which makes low level bombing "interesting" too. :)

 

The one game I lost from running was Wings of Glory which was more like a diary with interaction with pilots in the squadron.

commodore 64? if you scroll up a bit, this game is going to have some form of pilot interaction too. it won't be thrust in your face if you're

not interested in it and just want to fly missions. but its there to add more depth, if you do like a changing backstory with each campaign.

 

This was unique for flight sims and some diehards still wish to play this but seems the designer made this game so there is a problem running it.

I seem to recall a review that savaged the flight model. said it was virtually unflyable?

 

I also have trouble with Flying Circus by Empire crashing back to windows. That game was suppose to have very accurate flight models and landscape taken from actual photos of the front.

Flying Corps Gold does that to me. :( need to build a Win95 box for these old gems.

 

Sorry I get carried away and wish you the best on your creation.

not at all... thanks for chipping in. with your wealth of experience, i appreciate the input.

 

 

regards

ken

[Norman Prince]

is it true that when MVR was an observer, he carried a shotgun?

it would need balancing, because if you score a headshot every time it would be dull.

similarly, if everything is whizzing by so fast that you can't even get a shot off, it would be frustrating.

 

 

I've been using the JSBsim "Aeromatic" utiility to build up the plane data, but it hasn't yet been plumbed into the game yet.

everything is "twist and go", "one size fits all" style. I'm hoping to meet or employ a programmer who can port JSBsim over

to Angelscript, or write a homebrew system using the Aeromatic data. (the project is non profit making so we shouldn't fall

foul of any licensing agreements).

 

i've read up on, and understand the principles of flight, but experiments with the equations and maths are sucking up too much time

from the other areas of the game. as you say, the flight model is very important, and it can make or break a game, but its also only

one component out of the game as a whole. no panic.

 

[+kendo353]

dude.. your post didn't say anything ?

mis-click ?

[Smosh]

These links were posted over at SimHq

 

It's a video series on WW1 aviation called Blood In The Air that has used CGI to add colour. I think it's fantastic!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DJhRv1G4rQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOIEtSLK-mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg760B9htfk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p-Nd-Cr4hs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4r2Kk3DndA

Edited March 16, 2007 by Smosh