More questions

[jenrick 0]

Hi I've got a couple of questions on game features, just curiosity, I'm going to get the sim when it comes out regardless of the answers :)

 

1) Will the aircraft feature adjustable sight settings? Will the user be able to set the sight based on a certain mill setting for different weapons delivery profiles (dive bombing at 400kts with a release altidude of 15K ft, vs level bombing at 400 kts at 500 ft)? I'm not asking for the sim to figure that profile out, and auto generate me the mill data, rather just I can set the sight where I want it, and it's up to me to get my numbers right. If not user adjustable will the sim at least have this auto set based on default strike profiles (ie switch to A2G weapons/A2G weapons delivery mode automatically sets the sight for a dive bomb profile, the parameters which are detailed in the manaul, etc.) sort of how Third Wire has the reticle setup in their products.

 

2) What kind of fidelity are you planning on modeling the weapons in game? The AIM-9L featured multiple launch modes, and the integration and utilization of the weapon into the SHAR and Gr3 platform was a big issue for a lot of the pilots (Sharky's "bombing" with a sidewinder by accident for instance). Also for a large portion of the conflict the bombing fuze types, and profiles flown had poor success do to fusing issues and impact angles. I don't expect that the user will be able to set their fuze type or anything along those lines, but will there be a "dud" percantge or the like till a certain date during the war for Argie aircraft etc?

 

 

Best of luck,

 

-Jenrick

[+Dante-JT 6]

Hi I've got a couple of questions on game features, just curiosity, I'm going to get the sim when it comes out regardless of the answers :)

 

1) Will the aircraft feature adjustable sight settings?[...] I'm not asking for the sim to figure that profile out, and auto generate me the mill data, rather just I can set the sight where I want it, and it's up to me to get my numbers right.[...]

 

By clicking in the rotating knob next to the gunsight (usually left-hand side of gunsight in the A-4s for example) the pilot will be able to raise or lower the gunsight reticle, like in the real plane. This is typical of planes with 1950's reflecting gunsight like the A-4B/C/Q Skyhawks (the exact model used by argentinean Skyhawks is the Ferranti ISIS D126R). Sea Harrier has a sophisticated HUD with CCIP (The only manual adjust I see in its flight manual is a Brightness knob for the reflected symbology).

 

 

2) What kind of fidelity are you planning on modeling the weapons in game? The AIM-9L featured multiple launch modes, and the integration and utilization of the weapon into the SHAR and Gr3 platform was a big issue for a lot of the pilots (Sharky's "bombing" with a sidewinder by accident for instance). Also for a large portion of the conflict the bombing fuze types, and profiles flown had poor success do to fusing issues and impact angles. I don't expect that the user will be able to set their fuze type or anything along those lines, but will there be a "dud" percantge or the like till a certain date during the war for Argie aircraft etc?

 

At least normal and uncaged launch modes are available for AIM-9L. In David Morgan's "Hostile Skies" there's another telling of AIM9L integration and confusion between SHAR and Gr3 platforms as RAF pilots flew SHARs in exchange.

 

The fuze types is an important issue. At the moment we have a bomb "cfg.ini" in the respective bomb folder, this config has the bomb's blast radius, weight, drag and other meaningful data - also could has a "timer" (fuze) we freely adjust. Not one hundred percent sure about how this will be set in the final simulation, but for now it could work more or less like the arming screen in ww2 sims where the player can set the guns convergence in meters. Bombs with high fuzing times delivered very low, very fast and perpendicular to the warship - we all know what happen - they penetrate one side of the aluminium hull to come out in the other side, exploding harmlessly in the water outside the ship.

[jenrick 0]

Thanks for the response. I was just re-reading "Hostile Skies" recently, and that's what prompted these questions.

 

In regards to #1. I recall according to Morgan, when he and the Gr3 pilot where chasing helicopters, the Gr3 pilot initially fired his cannon rounds approximately 100 yds off target. Morgan wrote that he was surprised that the rounds were that far off. The Gr3 pilot then radio'ed asking what the sight setting for the cannons was supposed to be. Also Morgan mentions several times using a wax pencil to mark various things. One of which was a particular mill depression on the HUD glass, in case his HUD went out before he left on his first bombing mission. I don't have my copy of the book handy, but I'll look when I get home and give you page numbers. I'm definitely not trying to contradict the flight manual, I just recall those particular occurrences in the book.

 

Regarding #2. I like having the option for fusing being adjustable. Historically the pilots had a pretty decent idea about what needed to be done to make the weapons work effectively (again referencing Morgan, his reservation about using low angle/level bombing to knock out the runways proved correct). It would be quiet interesting to see what would happen if the initial Argentinian strikes where made with bombs fused correctly for the attack profile flown.

 

Again best of luck, and thanks for the response,

 

-Jenrick

[jenrick 0]

I had a chance to look at my copy of "Hostile Skies" and was able to find the two sections I was thinking of:

 

pg 66: "I double checked all the armament settings in the cockpit and setup the heads up display aiming data, adding two chinagraph pencil marks on the sight glass in case I suffered a display failure. .... The marks were calculated for a delivery at 480 knots and a height of 200 feet."

 

Morgan never actually directly mentions mils or depression settings that I can find. Was the bombing reticle for the SHAR a true CCIP display that calculated factors in real time (such as displayed in the F-16, F-15 etc.)? If so I can't see where sitting on the deck of a carrier prior to launch, one would be able to get an accurate reticle to mark a physical backup mark. If the bombing reticle was generated and displayed based on inputed parameters, in Morgans case 480kts and 200 ft and releasing cluster bombs, and the reticle is displayed for those parameters regardless of the actual flight path I can see where it would work. Possibly the pilot could enter parameters, as a back up, and normally the reticle displayed a true CCIP?

 

pg 194: "After a short pause he called, 'What the hell is the sight setting for guns, Moggie?' ....The Sea Harrier was considerably heavier then the GR3 that John was used to and as a result the sight setting was further depressed. This accounted for the 100-yard miss on the first pass."

 

Again Morgan never states exactly what unit the sights are adjusted in or how. However from the text it would appear that a value has to be entered or changed to get the guns on target. I'm very unfamiliar with the Aden Cannon and it's normal employment symbology and HUD integration, so I unfortunately can't even hazard a guess.

 

I apologize for raising questions to which I have no answer, and don't even no where to look to find them,

 

-Jenrick

[+Dante-JT 6]

I apologize for raising questions to which I have no answer, and don't even no where to look to find them,

 

No problem! :) After some deeper researching, I've come up with some interesting stuff. And you warned us for a possible bug/overlook in JT's SHAR cockpit! We would find this anyway when implementing clickable cockpit, but indeed what happened:

Our SHAR cockpit is based in diagrams/pics of the Bill Gunston's book on the Harrier. The used reference strangely doesn't has the mill setting knob in the HUD controls panel in the cockpit (early prototype? I could scan and post the reference pic later) and so I wrongly assumed (due to a very superficial search in flight manual!) that this knob really didn't existed!

But with a deeper and more focused search in the (huge) SHAR manual, I've found: "Wingspan/Set Depression. While this set control is depressed and for 2 seconds after its released its setting is displayed in the A/A and VID modes and reversionary AAM as a 3-digit readout prefixed by the letter S to indicate wingspan in feet." And then there's a lot of talk about the so-called reversionary modes (I hate them!). And next, it talks about a "Continuously Computed Impact Line: In the AAG mode a continuously computed impact line (CCIL) is displayed. The CCIL extends from 500 feet range and initially represents the gun rounds trajectory." There's also a Range Octagon. AAG mode is Air-to-Air Guns mode.

 

And then inspecting closely the cockpit diagram I've found this control with the Label "WSPAN/DEPR SET", just above HUD brightness control. Surprise! :) This is the button Moggie's wingman had to press to set his gunsight! The bottomline: We need badly to update our SHAR cockpit. Btw, it's a good idea to make chinagraph pencil marks over the settings in case the HUD went out. It did that in the book once, didn't? (went off during a mission)

[jenrick 0]

Ah glad to have been of assistance then :) Revisionary modes sound like they won't be all that much fun to implement. If I recall correctly Morgan mentions using a pencil twice, once in the quote I had, and the other was to mark a horizon line on each side of the canopy to give him a dive angle reference.

To be honest I've wished for something close to that in any game that features manual A2G deployment (SFP1, Mig Alley, etc), as getting your dive angle right can take a lot of practice.

 

-Jenrick

 

No problem! :) After some deeper researching, I've come up with some interesting stuff. And you warned us for a possible bug/overlook in JT's SHAR cockpit! We would find this anyway when implementing clickable cockpit, but indeed what happened:

Our SHAR cockpit is based in diagrams/pics of the Bill Gunston's book on the Harrier. The used reference strangely doesn't has the mill setting knob in the HUD controls panel in the cockpit (early prototype? I could scan and post the reference pic later) and so I wrongly assumed (due to a very superficial search in flight manual!) that this knob really didn't existed!

But with a deeper and more focused search in the (huge) SHAR manual, I've found: "Wingspan/Set Depression. While this set control is depressed and for 2 seconds after its released its setting is displayed in the A/A and VID modes and reversionary AAM as a 3-digit readout prefixed by the letter S to indicate wingspan in feet." And then there's a lot of talk about the so-called reversionary modes (I hate them!). And next, it talks about a "Continuously Computed Impact Line: In the AAG mode a continuously computed impact line (CCIL) is displayed. The CCIL extends from 500 feet range and initially represents the gun rounds trajectory." There's also a Range Octagon. AAG mode is Air-to-Air Guns mode.

 

And then inspecting closely the cockpit diagram I've found this control with the Label "WSPAN/DEPR SET", just above HUD brightness control. Surprise! :) This is the button Moggie's wingman had to press to set his gunsight! The bottomline: We need badly to update our SHAR cockpit. Btw, it's a good idea to make chinagraph pencil marks over the settings in case the HUD went out. It did that in the book once, didn't? (went off during a mission)