This was pretty cool....

[+Tailspin 3]

I was just flying a "bomb target" mission with Fe2c's (still trying to tweek the 37mm mod so they don't always slaughter the AI). The target was an airfield. Alt-N to target. I order the squadron to engage ground targets while I sit and watch the AAA vs. AI. I'll be darned if the AI didn't bomb and destroy most of the AAA guns around the field! I also discovered the Rejoin command is a valuable tool to help save AI lives. On another less successful mission I watched as the AI, after missing most of the AAA, just circled the field getting themsleves shot to hell. It occured to me to try the Rejoin command. When I did the remaining AI peeled off and headed for me. I guess the point is that we sometimes underestimate the value and effect of the command system and some of what we attribute to "dumb" AI may be inadequate leadership from the squaron commander.

[Firecage 1]

I was just flying a "bomb target" mission with Fe2c's (still trying to tweek the 37mm mod so they don't always slaughter the AI). The target was an airfield. Alt-N to target. I order the squadron to engage ground targets while I sit and watch the AAA vs. AI. I'll be darned if the AI didn't bomb and destroy most of the AAA guns around the field! I also discovered the Rejoin command is a valuable tool to help save AI lives. On another less successful mission I watched as the AI, after missing most of the AAA, just circled the field getting themsleves shot to hell. It occured to me to try the Rejoin command. When I did the remaining AI peeled off and headed for me. I guess the point is that we sometimes underestimate the value and effect of the command system and some of what we attribute to "dumb" AI may be inadequate leadership from the squaron commander.

 

 

yes I try and use the commands alot but I still find the fighters tend to do what they want alot fo the time. I am still trying to understand when I tell them to attack air do they go after what I have targetted or whats closest. At time they peel off on their own to go after something and most times if I do a rejoin it doesnt work very well. I guess im just expecting the AI to have a bit more savy than they do.

 

One thing I see alot of is the AI will chase another AI plane and take about 10 mins to aim and get lead in them. AI attacks a human player and ping me in 1 shot dead. Now I have peters AI additions and stuff as I know they are more agressive but I dont understand why its only the humans they can get an instant kill shot off on and miss the other AI like crazy. There are just a few of these strange things im not seeing a fix for yet.

[+Tailspin 3]

I don't think they attack your target. In the case of the ground attack I had the airfield targeted and they went after anything but the airfield itself. I think another often overlooked factor is pilot experience. This shows in the debrief at the end of a mission. More experienced pilots consistently get more kills. There is also a randomness built into all this. One thing is for sure. If I forget to "signal" them to attack they hardly fire a shot. BTW....I'm not using Peter's AircraftObject.ini. I do a lot of observing (F6) and I can't see where the AI aren't being agressive enough. There are green pilots and aces and those in between and I think that's well reflected in the game. I don't want everybody to be the Red Baron. Thats not very realistic, IMHO.

[+peter01 2]

One thing I see alot of is the AI will chase another AI plane and take about 10 mins to aim and get lead in them. AI attacks a human player and ping me in 1 shot dead. Now I have peters AI additions and stuff as I know they are more agressive but I dont understand why its only the humans they can get an instant kill shot off on and miss the other AI like crazy. There are just a few of these strange things im not seeing a fix for yet.

 

I'd agree that the AI is effective in shooting the human player down - often just a couple of shots.

 

The rest....well, doesn't happen in my game for some reason.

 

After reading your post I did a 12 Alb D3s vs 12 Spad 150s custom mission - both planes have my AI data, and the same Aircraftobject.ini as I posted. The result was after 10 mins 8 AlbD3s were lost, 6 Spads were downed. In a AlbD3 I downed one Spad only - I had a very determined opponent, took most of the time to shake him from my tail, then get the better of him, then after 6 mins switched to autopilot.

 

In the team, 5 different AlbD3 AI pilots downed 1 Spad each.

 

I watched 3 different dogfights in that last 4 mins on autpilot, and they were very good to watch - the AlbD3s and Spads were evenly matched. In one pair the Spad had the upper hand and kept it, and I watched him shoot down the Alb very proficiently, but the AlbD3 jinked well too. In the other two pairs the fights turned and twisted with one ,then the other getting the advantage and taking shots. I watched these 3 seperate dogfights finish - all in the last 4 mins.

 

I then ran the same mission in my stock install - TKs Aircraftobject.ini and AI data. The end result wasn't much different. 10 Albs and 6 Spads lost after 12 mins. But I shot down 1, and wasn't chased deteminedly by EA, shooting them down was lots easier, just got bored so didn't try for more.

 

I suppose the AI versus AI result is similar with TKs and mine from this quick test (tho not for human). I'd say this is because my AI are more aggressive/proficient, but this is also offset as they are better at evasion too! Balanced. As TKs are. As long as you use one set or the other.

 

A couple of other things I have noticed in furballs are firstly, that the planes maintain altitude far better than before - they don't go to ground as in previous version - which is very good, a major improvement. And secondly, a lot of dogfights end up as 1:1s or 1:2/3s etc - planes seem to get scattered everywhere in small groups and slug it out. I think (not sure) this is both different and better than before. Perhaps this is a reason why rejoins don't work effectively - they are widely scattered.

 

Doesn't help you I know, but ....maybe others have different experiences, and we can guess/identify/fix if necessary what this is.

Edited February 23, 2008 by peter01

[+peter01 2]

mmmm

 

Reran the original mission (my aidata, Aircraftobject.ini, flying AlbD3 vs Spads).

 

Result was a bit different. 3AlbD3s and 3 Spads lost. Now this doesn't sound that different, but it was watching the AI....and I used autopilot the entire time. The planes jinked proficiently, but many of the attackers had trouble lining up shots... as you stated, but not as pronounced. 1 AlbD3 pilot shot down 2 planes. The other may have been a collision.

 

So as tailspin said, the skill level is probably a major factor. As its a custom mission I set the AI skill level on both sides to excellent....meaning they would be a mix of Aces/Vets some average usually, I guess. In the second rerun there must have been less skilled pilots (it certainly looked like it to me).

 

In campaigns and single missions (as against custom missions), the skill profile would be lower.

 

You can improve the AI by copying say the average level to the green level (they will be the same then, but you'll hardly notice other than they are tougher generally), or something similar. I'm certain that will improve AI vs AI outcomes, if it is bugging you. Either TKs or my Aircraftobject.ini.

 

it could be too, that in my aircraftobject.ini, the lower skill level AI may comparatively be better at evading (good for Human player) than they are at being aggressive or capable or good shots .... maybe unbalanced in terms of AI vs AI. Not sure, but I'll look at it more, so thanks for heads up.

 

And...this is guess...but it could be... that the AI that target the human player, at least initially in a furball, are the more capable AI (my experience in that first dogfight, he sure seemed like an Ace!). This for example is definitely true in Il2 - the Aces or Vets follow the player around in furballs like hounddogs, just waiting for that opportunity, often ignoring other planes. In IL2 you can set skill levels for planes, and therefore know from their IDs, who's who in the zoo.

 

Its all pretty complex.

Edited February 23, 2008 by peter01