+p10ppy 2 Posted May 18, 2008 Add on gunsight for FE As mentioned in a recent post, I’m somewhat “uneasy” about using aimangles to adjust the gunsight/bullet path convergence The issue (thanks B Bandy RFC) is that the AI becomes very inaccurate when using significant amounts of this parameter (empirical testing seems to confirm this) The AI would seem to use the aircraft’s fore/aft axis for aiming fixed guns and aimangles shifts the bullet path away from this axis This is fine for vertical adjustments because the AI can be “told” to compensate with the GunBoresightAngle in the [FlightControl] section of the FM (as with the Lewis gun in the stock SE5a) SE5A_DATA.INI [FlightControl] GunBoresightAngle=5.0 [InternalGun2] AimAngles=0.0,5.0,0.0 However there seems to be no GunBoresightAngle equivalent for left/right adjustments So heres a replacement gunsight that can be moved around instead of the bullet path Its somewhat of a pain to use I’m afraid The steps You will have to extract the WEAPONDATA.INI and the WEAPONDATA.DAT from the ObjectData.CAT if you haven’t already and place them in a folder called “Weapons” in the “objects” folder (you may have to make the “Weapons” folder) Place the GunSight.bmp and gunsight01.LOD in the “Weapons” folder has well Add this to the bottom of your extracted weapondata.ini [WeaponData027] TypeName=Gunsight01 FullName=Gunsight01 ModelName=Gunsight01 Mass=0.010000 Diameter=0.100000 Length=0.010000 SubsonicDragCoeff=0.000100 SupersonicDragCoeff=0.000100 AttachmentType= SpecificStationCode= NationName= StartYear=0 EndYear=0 Availability=0 BaseQuantity=0 Exported=FALSE ExportStartYear=0 ExportEndYear=0 ExportAvailability=0 WeaponDataType=5 MaxFuelAmount=0.001000 Asymmetrical=FALSE Note [WeaponData0XX] should be sequential with any thing you already have there After you have saved that, Open the extracted WEAPONDATA.INI in the NEW weapons editor and hit save Now change your “victim” aircraft FM thusly (SPAD7_180 used here as an example) Add TWO new systems to the component that the gunsight will sit on (often [Nose]) SPAD7_180_DATA.INI [Nose] ParentComponentName=Fuselage SystemName[001]=Engine SystemName[002]=Gunsight01////////////////////New SystemName[003]=Gunsight////////////////////////New Add two new weapon stations’ to match in the weapon station section of th FM [Gunsight01] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=11///////////////////////////note these are sequential with StationID’s above StationGroupID=4//////////////////////note these are sequential with StaionGroup’s above StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.75,0.642 /////////////where the gunsight will appear on the aircraft, you will have to test AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0 LoadLimit=5 AllowedWeaponClass=FT AttachmentType=NATO ModelNodeName= PylonMass=0.0001 PylonDragArea=0.00 NoJettisionTank=TRUE FuelTankName=Gunsight01//////////////name of the weapon lod The next one’s parameters are largely irrelevant, its to hide the existing gunsight The most important bit is the ModelNodeName=sight, “sight” being the mesh name of the original gunsight You will have to deduce that with an OUT file or use a hex editor on the main models LOD to find it (not as hard as it sounds) or ask the original modder to tell you [Gunsight] SystemType=WEAPON_STATION StationID=12//////////////////////////note these are sequential with StationID’s above StationGroupID=5/////////////////////note these are sequential with StaionGroup’s above StationType=EXTERNAL AttachmentPosition=0.000,0.5000,0.0000 AttachmentAngles=0.000,0.0000,0.0000 LoadLimit=1 AllowedWeaponClass=FT AttachmentType=NATO,WP NumWeapons=1 ModelNodeName=sight////////////////////////name of the original gunsight mesh PylonMass=0.0001 PylonDragArea=0 FuelTankName= Finally modify or create a loadout file for the aircraft so the gunsight01 is loaded in all configurations SPAD7_180_LOADOUT.INI example [Default] DefaultFor=SWEEP,CAP,INTERCEPT,BALLOON_DEFENSE,CAS,RECON,ARMED_RECON,ESCORT Loadout[11].WeaponType=Gunsight01 Loadout[11].Quantity=1 [Le Prieur] DefaultFor=BALLOON_BUSTING Loadout[01].WeaponType=LePrieurTube Loadout[01].Quantity=1 Loadout[02].WeaponType=LePrieurTube Loadout[02].Quantity=1 Loadout[03].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[03].Quantity=1 Loadout[04].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[04].Quantity=1 Loadout[05].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[05].Quantity=1 Loadout[06].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[06].Quantity=1 Loadout[07].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[07].Quantity=1 Loadout[08].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[08].Quantity=1 Loadout[09].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[09].Quantity=1 Loadout[10].WeaponType=LePrieurRocket Loadout[10].Quantity=1 Loadout[11].WeaponType=Gunsight01 Loadout[11].Quantity=1 Phew I usually mod the main guns tracer size with the gun editor to make testing easier (bigger, temporarily) AttachmentPosition=0.0,0.75,0.642 equals Left(-x.x) or Right(x.x), Down(-x.x) or Up(x.x), Backward(-x.x) or Forward(x.x) from the aircrafts CG (units are metres) Keep adjusting it till you have it right, the above is good for MY spad7_180 with the cockpit setting that I use I will include my SPAD7_180_LOADOUT.INI and my SPAD7_180_DATA.INI in the download (they go in your SPAD7_180 folder) Please backup your old ini's first My SPAD7_180 ini's are modded for LePrieur's as well as the cockpit settings here http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=5924 so YMMV Enjoy and feel free to use it for other aircraft (and re-release it for the community if you wish) :yes: Should be available in the "World War I Cockpits" downloads section when approved Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlPaint01 0 Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Add on gunsight for FE You will have to extract the WEAPONDATA.INI and the WEAPONDATA.DAT from the ObjectData.CAT if you haven’t already and place them in a folder called “Weapons” in the “objects” folder (you may have to make the “Weapons” folder) Place the GunSight.bmp and gunsight01.LOD in the “Weapons” folder has well I cannot find GunSight.bmp or GunSight01.LOD in the "ObjectData.CAT" or "ObjectData01.CAT" files. Where might they be? OlPaint01 Edited May 19, 2008 by OlPaint01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+p10ppy 2 Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Sorry that wasn't that clear was it And Combataces slightly odd file system and Announcements means its doesnt really appear where its meant to Its a download try here http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autoc...p;showfile=6640 have fun Edited May 19, 2008 by p10ppy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlPaint01 0 Posted May 19, 2008 P10ppy Thank you for you expertise. I will tackle the SPAD7_180 movable gunsight following your excellent instructions. O/T: I gather from my reading that the early scouts and two-seaters carried handgrenades and even metal darts to attack ground personel in the early days of the war. I have seen pictures of primative ordnance that were nothing more than artillery shells with fins fitted for dropping over the side of the cockpit by the observer or even the pilot. I gather that most strategic bombing from Gothas and HP-400s was from very high, straight and level, but did the smaller strike aircraft delivered bombs as dive-bombers. The big bombers must have had a bombsight, I would imagine. Did the stratigic bombers in fact use a simple optical sight that later developed into the Norden BS of WWII? Did the scout pilots or the two-seater crews use the pilot's gunsight to pickle the bombs as the Stuka did in WWII? I have been playing around with the strike missions of First Eagles trying to take out the ground targets. I have not solved the physics of gravity drops yet. I wish I had a bombsight to direct my aim. I know I can toggle off the F4 view to see just a cross-hair to dive bomb with. Has TK given us a bomb sight function that I have not yet discovered? OlPaint01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted May 19, 2008 Can't say that I see much of anything even resembling a sight on these pics here (72MB pdf) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlPaint01 0 Posted May 19, 2008 Can't say that I see much of anything even resembling a sight on these pics here (72MB pdf) Salute Gr.Viper I have been playing "Fighter Squadron:Screaming Demons over Europe" with a WWI mod released by OpenPlaneSim for several weeks when I am not immersed in First Eagles. The Gotha Bomber in that sim has a KeyBoard Hot Key combination that brings up a bombardier's station with an optical scope showing a moving terrain through the eye piece. I would assume that this graphical representation in that sim mod has some basis in Historical Fact. I have not had a chance to play any other ThirdWire Flight Sims other that First Eagles, but I would assume that the Fighter/Bombers in the other TK sims have an aiming method for iron bombs as the fighter/bomber pilot has in real life. The fighter pilot has a gunsight. I just thought it would be neat to have an aiming device for the bombing missions. OlPaint01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted May 19, 2008 Ok... after more careful research... Other TK sims either have a modern CCIP or a very fixed sight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlPaint01 0 Posted May 19, 2008 Gr.Viper Now we are talking... The Gotha bombsight shown in the your attached photos helped the bombardier triangulate the drop point. Excellent find. I recall taping a graduated strip of paper in the middle of my monitor when flying bomber missions in RB3D - an Armstrong CCIP, so to speak - to help me score direct hits with my iron bombs. The tick marks on the paper strip were altitude indexes calibrated by experience. If my flight path aligned with the paper strip and if I had Wing Level autopilot set, I could put the "egg in the pickle barrel" every time. BTW, have you noticed that after installing April 2008 hot-fix that the bombardier in the crew fails to drop ordnance automatically in AutoPilot. I can still direct the other bombers in the Wing to "Bombs Away" on target using Tab-2 key combination but I must to remember to toggle out of AutoPilot to manually release my bombs. OlPaint01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted May 22, 2008 Bombsight on Breguet 14, I think From documentary "4 Years of Thunder" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted May 24, 2008 Fear me for I'm watching a movie full of rare footage I think the left one is the same sight as above Voisin 3 bombsight. Do we have rockets mounted on Farman yet? BTW, these things are really wobbly in their "pylons". The launcher frame is rigid but each rocket is free to go wherever it pleases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+sinbad 27 Posted May 24, 2008 I think the Farman is an MF-20, and we do not have that yet. Perhaps someone will become inspired. I suppose rockets could be mounted on the MF-11, but I have no evidence that this was actually done. Use appeared to require the attack to commence above the target with a fairly steep dive, so there is some question that the early Farmans could handle that. I have started a post which is more complete but that project is dragging a bit. sinbad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted June 19, 2008 I'm unstoppable Found telescope sight and that's the way it was supposed to work Looks like Gotha observer/bombardier position. Although it comes form a documentary where shots from Hell's Angels (zepp gondola) were used along with authentic footage so I have my doubts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+sinbad 27 Posted June 20, 2008 Hi Again Grim Viper- I think the last photo is a Zepp gondola. The sights on the Gothas and Staakens were mounted externally. It is a really good find though. Eventually we'll have a functioning Zepp and the interior detail photos are scarce. A bombsight for the Staaken is now in the workshop. Stay tuned. sinbad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted June 20, 2008 Eventually we'll have a functioning Zepp and the interior detail photos are scarce. Like that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted June 20, 2008 IMHO recreating a zepp is something more fit for large ship or sub sim - lots of stations, crew management, route planning... closer to sub sims as the airship moves in 3D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+sinbad 27 Posted June 20, 2008 Agreed, but the Zepps did fly and many were shot down, or bombed down. Since they were part of the environment, I'd love to have one. Soon, we may. sinbad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
