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Wraith27

MiG-23 w XXI wieku?

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Siemka! Pisałem już ten temat na angielskim forum ale tam nikt nic nie wie...

 

Więc tak: Jakiś czas temu w "Lotnictwie" czytałem, że MiG modyfikuje MiGi-23ML lotnictwa Angoli tzn upgrade radaru, rakiety R-77 itd. Słyszeliście coś na ten temat to znaczy czy była to tylko propozycja czy też modyfikacja ta doszła do skutku i Angola ma takie zmodyfikowane samoloty. Pytam bo jak wiecie lindr2 zamieścił uploada MiG-23-98 jako fikcyjny samolot a jeśli Angola ma takie naprawdę to by było to co lubię czyli więcej realizmu :cool: Jeśli ta modyfikacja istnieje w siłach powietrznych Angoli to może macie jakieś dokładniejsze dane np o uzbrojeniu...?

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Mam te same informacje co Ty także z "Lotnictwa". Tam było też zdjęcie '23 z podwieszonymi czterema R-77, ale nie wiadomo czy to był tylko demonstrator czy też rzeczywiście doszło do tej modernizacji, Angola ma coś koło 32 Migów.

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MiG-23 is outdated plane - I'm sorry about that - but only in Belarus you can see them in Europe; some African Countries still using it - and that's it. It's funny that even MiG-29's are retired from many AF in world together with MiG-23's, and a large amount of MiG-21's are still flying. Whatever the reasons - it's amazing thing for me :yes:

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Heh, przypomniało mi się, że to był pierwszy typ Miga który miał porządny zasięg :cool: : praktyczny ~1600km, a teoretyczny (bez rezerwy) ~1900km z dodatkowymi zbiornikami sięgał coś koło 2500 kilosów. Nawet nowszy '29 (9.12) osiąga zaledwie 1400 bez i około 2000 kilometrów z dodatkowym tankiem.

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Wydaje mi się że ta modernizacja się raczej nie odbyła albo jest jeszcze w trakcie(też kiedyś o tym czytałem w Lotnictwie ale nie pamiętam już prawie nic)

Z tym zasięgiem to główną rolę odgrywają silniki (ilość, typ i paliwożerność) i zbiorniki paliwa

Jak widzicie MiG-23 ma układ jednosilnikowy a MiG-29 dwusilnikowy (ale oba są "lekkimi" samolotami myśliwskimi)

A i wielkosć też jest różnicą.

Edited by Signum

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Wydaje mi się, że Gerald14 ma jakieś informacje o tej Angolskiej modernizacji. Napisałem mu PM'a i czekam na Re.

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The MiG-23 fighter aircraft was created by the Mikoyan-Gurevich Design Bureau in 1967 and was under series production from 1969 till 1984. A variable-geometry wing, in conjunction with a powerful engine, extended significantly the machine capabilities as for basing and as for performing an interception of high-speed maneuvering targets. The aircraft was in operational service with the Air Force and, in addition, with the Air Defence Force of the Soviet Union. The aircraft were exported to twenty-five countries throughout the world. Among them, besides the Warsaw Treaty Organization member-countries, worthly of mention are Algeria, Angola, India, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, China and Vietnam. These aircraft took an active and succesful part in combat operations in many countries.

 

The first series-produced modification named MiG-23S has been equipped with the Sapfir-21 (‘sapphire’) radar and with the set of weapons borrowed from the MiG-21 aircraft. In fact, it was a transitional version which was not widely practiced in the line units.

 

The flight tests of the upgraded version, called the MiG-23M, equipped with the Sapfir-23D-SH radar began in 1972. This first Soviet airborne multifunction pulsed Doppler radar significantly improved the fighter combat capabilities thanks to possibility of discriminating targets against the earth background in the moving target indication (MTI) mode. The MiG-23M aircraft was armed with the R-23R passive-homing missiles intended for the medium-range combat without visual contacting the enemy. From 1976 the MiG-23ML improved version came into service. It distinguished by the upgraded Sapfir-23ML radar with improved characteristics, by the more powerful R-29-300 engine and by the renewed weaponry. Later on, the MiG-23ML aircraft was upgraded into the MiG-23MLD version. Although the MiG-23 was at that time the advanced machine which perfectly solved the tasks facing the front-line and air defense aviation, however, the aircraft ceased to correspond to the present-day combat tasks because of reduction in radar and IR signatures of the fourth generation fighters, because of the lack of a digital computer within the airborne radar and because of impossibility to interface the Sapfir-23 radar with new guided missiles operating in the other frequency range.

 

The opportunity of breathing a new life into this machine was very attractive, the more so, because the airframe was far from exhaustion of its resources. This aircraft would fall into line with contemporary combat air complexes after a rational modernization aimed at enhancement of the effectiveness of the aircraft avionics systems and employment of new high-precision guided missile and bomb weapons.

 

The basis for such modernization would be a replacement of the Sapfir-23 radar with the new Moskit-23 or Moskit-21K (‘mosquito’) radars developed and manufactured by the Phazotron-NIIR Public JSC.

 

The Mikoyan ANPK (Aviation Research & Production Company) and the Phazotron company are able at the moment to transform the veteran MiG-23 into the reliable fighter capable not only of conducting the air combat, but also of employing the contemporary missile weapons against covered ground and sea targets. Not considering the problems associated with the modernization of the airframe, engine and other aircraft systems, the Phazotron-NIIR company is ready to propose a number of avionics modernization versions for the MiG-23 fighter. Having estimated his financial resources and having defined the necessary and sufficient level of the modernization on the basis of the tasks facing him, a customer could select any of proposed versions. Of course, he has to discuss with the Mikoyan ANPK the aircraft modernization version as well as the actions related to a designer’s supervision.

 

The first modernization version, designated as the MiG-23-98-1, provides for the replacement of the Sapfir-23 radar or its modification with the Moskit-23 radar installed in the aircraft nose in place of the main monounit (antenna, receiver, transmitters of the main and CW illumination channels of the Sapfir-23 radar).

 

In addition to main operating modes of the Sapfir radar, the new Moskit-23 station has the following capabilities.

 

Air-to-air function:

 

- range-while-search mode and target tracking;

 

- track-while-scan mode with tracking eight targets and simultaneous attack against

 

two of them;

 

- close air combat.

 

Air-to-surface function:

 

- mapping while searching for ground or sea-surface targets using the following

 

techniques:

 

a) real beam ground map method;

 

b) Doppler beam sharpening;

 

c) synthetic aperture;

 

- ground (sea-surface) moving target indication;

 

- air-to-ground ranging.

 

The Moskit-23 radar is designed to provide the possibility of using the up-to-day R-27R(T), RVV-AE and R-73 air-to-air guided missiles and makes it possible to use the R-23T and R-24T guided missiles. In addition, the radar provides the possibility to use the Kh-31A air-to-surface guided missiles, KAB-500KR guided air bombs, unguided rockets and gun armament. The Moskit-23 provides also the possibility of precision bombing with the use of conventional gravity bombs.

 

Equipping the MiG-23 aircraft with the new Moskit-23 multifunctional radar will increase the aircraft combat effectiveness, firstly, through extending the air-target detection range up to 90 km, and secondly, through using the ground mapping capability and employing the Kh-31A antiship active-homing missiles with a 100 km range of launching against sea-surface targets as well as through using the KAB-500KR guided bombs.

 

The second modernization version, MiG-23-98-2, is some sort of compromise because it does not require to dismount the Sapfir-23 radar and, as a result, does not require to reconfigure the aircraft nose but provides using the new pod-mounted Moskit-21K radar as a component of the standard system. This radar, like the Moskit-23, provides employing the above-mentioned weapons.

 

Application of the Moskit-21K will increase the combat effectiveness through extending a range of fighter target detection up to 50 km, using the mapping capability, employing the overall fleet of air-to-air guided missiles, namely, the RVV-AE,

 

R-27R/T and R-73E missiles, as well as through employing the Kh-31A antiship missiles, unguided rockets, controlled and gravity bombs.

 

The third modernization version, MiG-23-98-3, provides for using the today’s missiles carried by currently available aircraft. For this purpose, it is necessary to install an additional radiocorrection channel (FRC) in the aircraft nose, which will require to use the up-to-date RVV-AE, R-27T and R-73 and even R-77 guided missiles in addition to the standard missile armament.

 

Equipping the aircraft with the RVV-AE active-homing missiles (in addition to the standard R-23R and R-24R ones) will extend the missile launch range under head-on combat situation up to 50(70-100km in R-77 case - head to head - in optimum conditions) km.

 

On each modernization version, the ECM equipment, namely, an active jammer interacted automatically with the airborne radar developed together with GosNIRTI, can be mounted.

 

All described radar versions have been developed by the Phazotron-NIIR JSC jointly with the Mikoyan ANPK, the design bureau that gave birth to the MiG-23 aircraft and that knows its creation better than anybody else. The two famous companies will render an adequate assistance by advice and action to potential customers. The veteran of air combats of the 1970-1980s will be able to keep up air attacks in the 21-st century(if someone like Angola still use them).

Edited by starfighter2

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The idea that there was a big market for MiG-23 upgrades turned out to be quite an illusion. MiG-23-98 went only on "paper". The problem was that most MiG-23 users were too strapped for cash to afford an upgrade with all the latest gadgetry. A much more modest upgrade was more realistic and there are rumors of such efforts in progress. Another rumor is that FANA(Angola AF) have 3 upgraded MiG-23's - military journalists are not sure which "98" upgrade it is actually.(BTW Angola have 28 operational MiG-23's in several versions)

Edited by starfighter2

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BTW - sorry for "messing up" in Polish forum - but I'm from Serbia and understand you quite a bit :yes:

 

That's nice :good:

 

And maby do You have some link to page where are this modificated MiG-23 pictures (I saw them in Lindr2 MiG-23-98)

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If you wanna more: :yes:

 

The MiG-23 was designed as a response to the F-4 Phantom II, the first MiG-21s were basically second generation fighters, they lacked the missile armament and avionics associated with the third generation.

 

The best MiG-23 variants can hold 8.5Gs below the speed of Mach 0.85; the F-4E Phantom II barely can hold a max of 7.6Gs in operational service.

The MiG-23ML load factor is 8.5Gs below Mach 0.85 and beyond Mach 0.85 is 7.5Gs, The MiG-23MF has a slightly lower load factor of 8Gs at Mach 0.85 and a load factor of 7Gs above Mach 0.85, note that the IAI Kfir had a maximum load factor of 7.6Gs, this factors made the MiG-23 more than a match for the F-4 and Kfir, this forced in 1982 to the Israeli air force to rely on F-15s and F-16s as the main Israeli fighters since the MiG-23 clearly out machted the IAI Kfir in the air to air arena and was slightly better than the F-4.

 

The MiG-23 was also a fast design slightly faster than the F-4 Phantom and much faster than the Mirage III, Mirage F1 and MiG-21.

 

When the MiG-23M faced the F-4E in an air battle at the speeds of 800-1100 km/h at low and medium altitudes with the overloads at their max limits and close to the maximum of the thrust, MiG-23M in the horizontal maneuver exceeded the F-4E, however the MiG-23 was inferior to the F-4E in the vertical maneuver.

 

Analysis of the F-4E and MiG-23ML manuals shows that both aircraft are quit comparable, the F-4E holds a max sustained turn rate at sea level of 14.7 degrees/second, however it drops to 11.7 degrees/second at 10000 feet/3040 meters of altitude, however analysis of their turn radius shows that the MiG-23ML has a slight advantage over the F-4E at heights from 1000 meters to 5000 meters of altitude at speeds between Mach 0.5 to Mach 0.9

 

The IAI Kfir used to simulate the MiG-23 for the US navy TopGun Program, despite the Kfir is as fast as the MiG-23 it is not as agile in terms of Max sustained turn rate however it has a better Max instantaneous turn rate here some data for the IAI Kfir:

 

Typical combat weight with half of internal fuel and two Shafrir missiles – 9,390 kg.

Wing/canards loading at combat weight (9,390 kg) – 257.5 kg/sq.m.

Thrust/weight ratio at combat weight (9,390 kg) – 0.91.

Max rate of climb at sea level – 14,000 m/min.

Turn performance at 4,600-meter altitude and combat weight (9,390 kg):

Turn rate: sustained – 9.6 deg/sec; instantaneous – 18.9 deg/sec.

 

As we can see the Kfir performance is quit comparable to the MiG-23 except in the fact its delta wing bleeds energy faster and can not keep a sustained turn with a MiG-23, because the MiG-23ML has max instantaneous turn rate of 16.7 deg/s and a max sustained turn rate of 14.1 deg/s

 

The MiG-23M against the Mirage F1

 

Practically in the entire altitude range at the speeds of 700-1100 km/h, the MiG-23M surpassed the Mirage F-1 on maneuverability and rates of climb. At speeds more than 1100 km/h at average and high altitudes, the MiG-23M had lower sustained turn rates than the Mirage F1.

 

The late MiG-23 versions was armed with superb weaponry , it was equipped with the R-73 from the mid 1980s, and could fire its AA-8/R-60MK and R-73 cued by the TP-23/26 IRST systems, this type of armament was absent from most of the third generation fighter aircraft and even fourth generation fighters until the late 1990s.

 

It had a Doppler radar with look down/shoot down capability. Its best versions had a radar that detected targets at a range of 90km and IRST systems that can detect targets at 50km of range.

 

The MiG-23MLD was the most perfect modification in the MiG-23 family. This aircraft has an optimum aerodynamic configuration, ensuring an essential improvement in maneuverability, this was achieved with a slight modification of its airframe aerodynamics. The MiG-23MLD has the much more improved radar Saphir-23MLA (N-008), this radar is capable of a searching and tracking of up to six aerial targets. The early radar weapons system of American fighter F -15 did not possess this capability.

 

The MiG-23 was not as agile as the MiG-29, Su-27, F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18 or Mirage 2000 but undoubtedly if it is armed with modern missiles such as the R-73 and R-77 and upgraded with modern avionics is not defenseless against any contemporary fourth generation fighter, this combined with its fast speed and acceleration allows it to be more or less as good as any other modern fourth generation fighter at beyond visual range combat.

Helmet mounted sights also gives it a certain degree of capability to fight more agile fighters specially if it carries the R-73, however few countries have upgraded their MiG-23 fleets to MiG-23-98 standards.

Several Angolan MiG-23MLs were upgraded to MiG-23-98 standards and can fire more modern missiles such as the R-73 and R-77 and probably are fitted with helmet mounted sights.

 

The IRST system was quite immune to electronic jamming and chaff/flares, this system could also cue air to air missiles such as the R-23/24, R-60MK and the R-73

 

The MiG-23 could engage and dogfight with third generation fighters such as the F-4 or Mirage F1 in equal terms but it could not do it likewise with fourth generation aircraft such as the F-16, F-15 and F-14.

 

The MiG-23 could fly at the angles of attack to 24-26 deg., which ensured it the definite advantages over the western fighter aircraft of the 2nd and 3erd generations. But with the advent of the aircraft of the 4th generation this superiority was lost (F-16 of different modifications they had a limitation on the angle of attack of 26-28 deg; a F-15C could sustain an angle of attack of 30 deg.)

However at high angles of attack the MiG-23MLD creators attained the stability parameters and controllability, comparable with the flight AoA characteristics of the F-16.

 

 

At the speeds of 900 km/h and 1200 km/h the F-15 has better turn rate than the MiG-23 at different heights.

The F-16 also is far more maneuverable it has a Max instantaneous turn rate of 26 deg/sec while the best MiG-23 max instantaneous turn rate is 16.7 deg/sec, other turn parameters are the sustained turn rate and load factor at a turn but again the F-16 is superior to the MiG-23 in these too, the F-16 has a Max sustained turn rate of 21.5 deg/sec while the MiG-23ML has a Max sustained turn rate is 14.1 deg/sec

 

However the MiG-23 still could fight the F-16s with some advantages on its side at least from the 1970s to the late 1980s, when the F-16s lacked BVR (Beyond Visual Range) air to air missiles, this was just until the late 1980s before the AIM-120 and AIM-7 became part of the F-16 operational armament in the early 1990s.

 

From the 1970s to the late 1980s, the MiG-23 could simply rule the engagement and engage and disengage at will when it faced the F-16 in air combat. it could fly fast and do swifts attacks and disengage quickly avoiding getting involved in a dog fight with the F-16.

 

The MIG-23ML still can fly at Mach 2.35 even armed with two R-24s, this means that swift attacks against the F-16 would be very likely successful and even more in the 1980s when the F-16 lacked any BVR armament and only relied in the short range AIM-9 Sidewinder, and in conditions with very bad European weather when chaff/flares would not make big difference.

 

The Soviet Aggressor MiG-23 unit used the same tactics when they played the role of aggressor aircraft in mock air combat training exercises against Soviet MiG-29s at the Marii air base in the former Soviet republic of Turkmenistan throught out most of the 1980s

The MiG-23 played the role of aggressor aircraft in the Soviet counterpart to the US Naval Fighter Weapons School located at the NAS of Miramar, popularly known as TOPGUN.

A well flown MiG-23 could achieve excellent kill rates against MiG-29s, in fact the MiG-23 aggressors achieved kill rates in mock combat versus inexperienced MiG-29 pilots of 1:2 in their favour.

 

An interesting anecdote about the MiG-23 agility was given by the Dutch pilot Leon Van Maurer who had more than 1200 hrs flying F-16s and flew against MiG-23ML Flogger Gs from air bases in Germany and the USA as part of NATO`s aerial mock combat training with Soviet equipment; he said the MiG-23 has superiority on the vertical plain over the F-16A, and horizontally is just slightly inferior to the F-16A, he also said the MiG-23ML had better BVR capabilities.

 

This was confirmed by the Israelies too when they obtained a Syrian MiG-23MLD that was flown to Israel by a Syrian defector and tested its flying characteristics, they were impressed with the quick acceleration the MiG-23MLD had, they even claimed that the MiG-23 has better acceleration performance than the F-16 and F-18.

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angola-4.jpg

aha.jpg

...sorry - can't find any upgraded 23's Angolan pics...

saaf_mirage_f_1_attacks_mig-23.jpg

...this view from Mirage F-1 is not promising one for Angola pilot :yes:

Edited by starfighter2

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Znalazłem info z 2005 roku, że modyfikacja objęła 18 maszyn.

 

I taką nic nie mówiącą fotkę...

 

post-20260-1211971242_thumb.jpg

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No ludziska nie obijać mi się tylko szukać w sieci info na ten temat!!!! Najlepiej jak ktoś znajdzie fotkę MiG'a w angolskich barwach z podwieszonymi R-77.

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Znalazłem takiego tylko w częściach:

fapa-daa_mig-23ml_c477_sd_by_stinger.jpg

Tak... wiem, wiem chcecie w całości???

Dobra jak coś znaje to napiszę.

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Znalazłem jednego jak mi przelatywał przez chate :haha:

 

post-20260-1212406317_thumb.jpg

 

Tylko ze znakami coś jest nie tak :dntknw: Jakieś sugestie?

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A tak przy okazji co do awioniki 23-ciego...

MiG-23 miał dosyć zaawansowany radar (Sapfir-23), jednak w jego kokpicie-ogólnie na zdjęciach i planach nie znalazłem żadnego wyświetlacza.

Trochę toto dziwne bo nawet w migu 21(od modyfikacji F-13 w górę) wyświetlacz wskazań radaru był.

W jaki sposób więc pilot obsługiwał radar?

Bo chyba nie przez HUD-a(w mig-u 23 był to chyba sam celownik przezierny nie wyświetlający żadnych danych).

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