WIP Strutter

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

Very nice work!

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I would say nice talent ;-)

[Dagaith 0]

Thank you all for kind words :)

And I'm glad, peter01, that you have the patience to do the FMs.

[Dagaith 0]

I've been thinking about the different variants of Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter lately... There seems to be many. But I (and I think most of the simmers) wouldn't want 8+ variants of same aircraft listed in their menus. That means, we should make a decision.

 

At the moment, I have a completed (only 1 LOD though) model of two-seater with synchronized Vickers and Lewis with the Scarff ring. That would be the most used/popular one I guess? Let's say, it's the Sopwith 9400 series...

This of course had different engines (mostly 110 and 130HP ones, is there a correlation with date, ie. early and late Strutters?)

 

Then, a 9700 series, 1-seat bomber would be needed. Most of them had synch. Vickers, I think. And again, different engines.

 

I don't know what was the difference between two-seater fighter and reconnaissance versions, anyone clarify this?`

 

We cannot exclude the French ones either, as they were really numerous. They had three general versions:

SOP. 1 A2 (two seater, recon?)

SOP. 1 B2 (two seater bomber)

SOP. 1 B1 (single-seater bomber)

 

They all had different engines throughout the war, ranging from 80HP to 135HP. Again, any relation to the date?

 

 

The French ones were a bit (but not too much) different from British ones, eg. not all of them had synchronized MG etc.

 

 

Also, the earlier variants of Strutter didn't have Scarff ring (Nieuport rings mostly then?).

I care more for early/late differences, as I love 1916 scenarios mostly (and fully armed and fast, late 1917 Strutter would be too tough).

 

But let's discuss!

 

Oh, and let's exclude the Comic at the moment. Perhaps later. :)

[+whiteknight06604 934]

I'm not an expert here but I would concentrate on a couple of the main versions,the vickers can be added and removed pretty easily via the "pilot" and data.ini mods.Maybe a 2 seat bomber recon,a single seat fighter and maybe a single seat bomber if it was different from the single seat fighter.

[Heck 496]

To me, the most important version to the game would be the one you've already produced. You could produce a single seat version if you wished, but from what I've read it was used in small numbers by the RNAS for strategic bombing. Even the two seat version had a short service life with the RFC. Only three squadrons used it, from the fall of 1916 to October of 1917, when all three squadrons were converted to Camels. I think it fell into the two seat fighter role simply because it had the first British syncronised forward firing gun, and the only other aircraft the British had in that role was a Fee plane. According to what I've read, even the Sopwith wasn't that well suited to the role, because the stability that made it a good bomber meant it wasn't really manuverable enough to be a fighter.

 

The real main user of this aircraft was the French in their reconnaisance squadrons. The two seat reconnaisance model (which your model would represent nicely) became a mainstay for them, along side the AR1, thankfully replacing the obsolete pusher and twin engine types they were using well into 1917. They ordered three times the number that the British did, and were still using it well into May of 1918. This type was far more important to the French than it was to the British in terms of numbers produced and length of service.

 

So, I think you need only the model you've already produced, plus a single seater if you wish, and you'd have the two major types covered. I know, from my point of view, I couldn't care less if a two seater has a Nieuport ring or a Scarff ring, as long as the idiot using it can keep the Huns off my tail long enough for me to do my job.

 

And if you decide on another First Eagles modelling project after this one, I think the real lack in this sim is in German two seaters.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Heck

[Dagaith 0]

whiteknight06604: The single-seater was bomber only, I think. And the removal of Vickers would need some more than just .ini editing, the cockpit needs a few minor changes too.

 

Heck: I guess you're right. Perhaps, then, three versions?

British two-seater fighter-recon with Vickers and rear Lewis gun

French Sop. 1.A 2 (In most pictures I've seen, these didn't have synchronized gun. Only rear gun. Comments?)

French Sop. 1.B 1 (single-seat bomber, most of them, I think, had only unsynchronized gun on the top wing. Am I right?)

Edited March 25, 2009 by Dagaith

[Dagaith 0]

Also, how do I make a transparent glass? Just setting a texture with opacity doesn't seem to work.

[+Laton 4]

Also, how do I make a transparent glass? Just setting a texture with opacity doesn't seem to work.

 

I think transparent textures need to be in .tga format. If you take a look in any of my Fokker E.III's there should be a file called glass.tga - feel free to use that if you want.

 

The Strutter is looking really nice.

[Heck 496]

Heck: I guess you're right. Perhaps, then, three versions?

British two-seater fighter-recon with Vickers and rear Lewis gun

French Sop. 1.A 2 (In most pictures I've seen, these didn't have synchronized gun. Only rear gun. Comments?)

French Sop. 1.B 1 (single-seat bomber, most of them, I think, had only unsynchronized gun on the top wing. Am I right?)

 

I think two versions would cover it. A single seater, and a two seater with forward and aft armament. The variations in armament seem almost bizarre. For an aircraft that was built in these numbers, authentic photos seem rare, given the numbers used. Most of the pictures I've seen are of models, and we can't be sure of the authenticity of the research done to produce them. I saw the following versions:

Two seater, Vickers forward, Lewis aft.

Two seater, Lewis overwing, Lewis aft.

Two seater, Lewis aft.

Single seater, Vickers forward.

Single seater, Overwing Lewis.

 

If you produce a single seater with a Vickers gun, as long as the Vickers is a separate sub-part in the lod, you can use the data.ini trick to remove it and add the Lewis gun pod that's already out there to mod it into that type, without your having to make a separate model for each one.

 

I think if you make the two seater a Vickers/Lewis combo, then once again the data.ini trick will work to create all the different versions, without creating separate lods.

 

You could create separate lods if you like, but it seems a lot of extra work for something that can be done with data.ini tricks.

 

It's a beautiful model, thanks for bringing this very important aircraft to the sim.

[Dagaith 0]

Heck: Unfortunately the unarmed version for Strutter cannot be produced in that way, because in addition to the gun removal (no problem with that) the cockpit edge/padding/whatever it's called should be altered too + a windscreen should be added.

It's no problem for me to make different models, as it's an easy change, though.

 

Let's hope it gets flying soon...

 

Oh, and I've added two in-game screens

[+whiteknight06604 934]

now I understand why a .ini edite won't suffice.Anyway your model looks better everytime I look at it.I eagerly awate any version(s) you eventualy release.Thank you.

[Southside Bucky 1]

They all had different engines throughout the war, ranging from 80HP to 135HP. Again, any relation to the date?

 

 

 

 

Hi Dagaith.

 

Excellent work...It's looking superb! :yes:

 

Regarding your question about the engines:

There was no absolute cut-off or change-over period from, say, the 110hp to the 130hp clerget. The RNAS tended to obtain the more powerful engines before the RFC, who generally, but not invariably struggled on with the 110hp well into the 2nd quarter of 1917.

 

As you already stated though, it wouldn't be practical to produce every variant. So in order to keep it manageable, I'd suggest a 110hp to 130hp change-over date of January or February 1917. It's up to you of course, but I think this would keep your Strutter roughly competitive with the contemporary A/C in the game.

 

As you probably know, the difference in performance between those two engines was quite minimal:

 

Maximum speed at 10,000 ft:

110 hp Clerget = 94 mph

130 hp Clerget = 98.5 mph

 

Climb to 10,000 ft:

110 hp = 26 minutes & 55 seconds

130 hp = 24 minutes & 25 seconds

 

Service ceiling:

110 hp = 12,500 ft

130 hp = 13,000 ft

 

The source for those performance figures is Windsock Datafile No.80, by J.M. Bruce, and pertain to fully loaded A/C.

 

 

Really looking forward to flying this...It's a major contribution to the game. Well done!

 

Bucky.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Southside Bucky

[Dagaith 0]

Indeed, it's best to keep it simple. So yes, most probably the best would be having two versions, 110 and 130hp ones that are for both British and French.

 

Tam-di-dam

[sockboy 0]

Indeed, it's best to keep it simple. So yes, most probably the best would be having two versions, 110 and 130hp ones that are for both British and French.

 

Tam-di-dam

 

Hi Dagaith...

 

Hope you are well mate..any news on the possible release of your excellent looking Strutter? I cant wait to try her out and it will be great to have another British Two Seater!!!

 

Best wishes...

 

Rab Watson

Fife

Scotland

[Wildfowler 0]

This looks great!

 

A worthy addition to the stable of aircraft!