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lindr2

МИг-29 (9-12) и (9-13) от TMF

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Скачал МИг-29 хотел полетать, на затем взял себя в руки от крыл конфигурационные файлы и понял, что до полетов далеко придестся денек поковыряться, например какие нафиг AHM EOGR и AHM на ранних Мигах? Про надписи на ИЛС я не говорю - обдолбаный LOMAC живет и побеждает, несмотря не на что: отсканированные страницы РЛЭ, перевод и на аглицкий и т.д.

 

А главное: в качестве руководства они использовали таблицы настроек МИг-29 от Falcon4! хотя есть НОРМАЛЬНЫЕ ДОКУМЕНТЫ!!!

 

Нет конечно 3D моделисты и FM ребята знают свое дело, спору нет летать будет гладко - на насколько реально? Главное есть люди способные помочь, зачем же в позу вставать. Я не собираюсь их учить как F-16 делать...

Edited by lindr2

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Hey I have no SAHM on the inboard wingstations on all 29s is it correct, I don`t have the TMF weaponspack installed, I use the one from krizis and u, have rewriten all the loadout designations to have some missiles on those birds. Any info about it.. what are you planing to change or redo on those MiGs`?

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Hey I have no SAHM on the inboard wingstations on all 29s is it correct, I don`t have the TMF weaponspack installed, I use the one from krizis and u, have rewriten all the loadout designations to have some missiles on those birds. Any info about it.. what are you planing to change or redo on those MiGs`?

 

these guys set SpecificStationCode for all stations, remove all of this...& you will be happy. i will change some values on avionics / data / HUD tga.

Edited by lindr2

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БЛИИН глянул в дата ини МИг-29

 

они че ... ?

 

AttachmentPosition= 3.802,-3.248,-0.135

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=1550

AllowedWeaponClass=EP

AttachmentType=WP

 

1.5 тонны на законцовках крыла!!!! , да миг 9-12 на всех шести пилонах больше 2000кг не поднимает... и какие нафиг ECM контейнеры на 9-12, что-то не слыхал

 

на СМТ есть, весит 150 кг

 

msp-418c.gif

 

http://www.cnirti.ru/catalog-10-18.htm

 

P.S. черт и 2BR на концах крыла.... Застрелите меня...

 

вот так должно быть

 

mig29-4.gif

Edited by lindr2

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specific station code you mean "WP"?

 

DELETE all strings like this SpecificStationCode=AA12

 

s**t! TO MUCH ERRORS in LOADOUT...

 

like this

 

AttachmentPosition=-3.151,-2.726,-0.098

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=1550

AllowedWeaponClass=RP,BOMB,2BR

 

- ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE IN 9-12!!!

 

MiG-29 9-12 max loadout 2000 KG, 2000KG at 6 pylons! {PTB-1500 not included}

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А разве это 1550 в килограммах?

 

ВСЕ в килограммах,ньютонах, метрах в секунду, момент инерции черт знает в чем в слюгах каж-са.

Edited by lindr2

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Lindr, ну че так сильно реагируешь:) Понятно же было что из этого получится. Хотя я все же надеялся, что TMF лажу не будет гнать.

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Lindr, ну че так сильно реагируешь:) Понятно же было что из этого получится. Хотя я все же надеялся, что TMF лажу не будет гнать.

 

бля ошибки детские, кроме того сравнил File compare файлы, которые должны быть одинаковыми, фигушки там сям опечатки например с распадом СССР боевой радиус миг-29 вырос 1,5 раза, строки пропущены, ИЛС 'детский' половину возможностей движка не использует, хотя кое чего они от меня взяли 'РЛ' например, непонятно почему например изменяемую шкалу и индикацию подвеса не взяли, crusaider мне это показал год назад. вообще авионика и дата.ини производит впечатление недоработанности, непохоже на MF. Пожар был что-ли?, к 3D моделям и ародинамике претензий нет, тут уровень очень высокий, мне учиться и учиться, хотя непонятно, почему не взяли 2 таблицы из 3 для движка, они же у них есть. Покрутился, есть претензии к маневренности, уж дракен-то на вираже я должен делать. часть самолетов от пушек потерял, у меня такого не было, мой 9-13СД малазийский под АИ от 5 ракет уклонился, выдержал бой против 5-6 самолетов, F-16 пытались сбить его из пушки - не смогли, уклонился. всего сбил 3 самолета ракетами и один из пушки.

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У буржуев стон стоит http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...iew=getlastpost - помогите, сбивают...

 

А я проблему маневренности решил, F-5E с Sidewinner AIM-9L из пушки валил.

 

правда обнаружил неприятную проблему:

 

летали в восьмером на МиГ-29 9-13 над Европой, перехват пво легкое - сбили 7 атакующих и 8 прикрытия, одного из атакующих сбило ПВО. В воздушном бою потерял 2 мига, но еще 2 разбились по неизвестной причине - надо разбираться больше пока такого не было.

 

 

Посмотрел скины в лупу - ну да, Русский - не РОДНОЙ!

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да че их в лупу смотреть - и так видно. Хорошо хоть в кабине приличнее. А то, что сбивают - тоже понятно. Не сделают здесь нормально русский самолет без самих РУССКИХ.

 

Там плохая маневренность только из-за МИ или еще что-то?

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да че их в лупу смотреть - и так видно. Хорошо хоть в кабине приличнее. А то, что сбивают - тоже понятно. Не сделают здесь нормально русский самолет без самих РУССКИХ.

 

Там плохая маневренность только из-за МИ или еще что-то?

 

Кокпит вроде не МФ делали, а человек, который Миг-21 кокпит делал, черт забыл как зовут, ему ГРОМАДНЫЙ респект - сделал, все, что мог.

 

В основном был виноват момент инерции, как я уже говорил: правила должны быть для всех одинакоми, нельзя ставить Су-27 угол устойчивости 15 градусов, нельзя считать момент инерции для русских самолетов исходя из макс взлетного веса, а для своих из нормального, нельзя, если хочешь сделать самолет а не мишень.

 

Есть еще вопрос: при выполнении петли самолет выходит с креном, надо посмотреть внимательно, я правда баки пересчитал, там слишком много топлива в крылья залили. Реально там 320 кг в каждом при плотности 0.8.

 

Примерчик: F-16I я отстрелил ему левое крыло, - все равно летит...

 

8af37aad7f06.jpg

 

f180b06f8ad4.jpg

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Скачал МИг-29 хотел полетать, на затем взял себя в руки от крыл конфигурационные файлы и понял, что до полетов далеко придестся денек поковыряться, например какие нафиг AHM EOGR и AHM на ранних Мигах? Про надписи на ИЛС я не говорю - обдолбаный LOMAC живет и побеждает, несмотря не на что: отсканированные страницы РЛЭ, перевод и на аглицкий и т.д.

 

А главное: в качестве руководства они использовали таблицы настроек МИг-29 от Falcon4! хотя есть НОРМАЛЬНЫЕ ДОКУМЕНТЫ!!!

 

Нет конечно 3D моделисты и FM ребята знают свое дело, спору нет летать будет гладко - на насколько реально? Главное есть люди способные помочь, зачем же в позу вставать. Я не собираюсь их учить как F-16 делать...

 

Lindr,

 

I'm uisng a translator so I'm not sure to fully understand what you wrote but I'll try to give you my answer (in english cause my russian is not hot :biggrin: )

 

First of all, I think it's really important for you to know that TK game engines is great but it's not a 1million $ military simulator (unfortunately for us :yes: ). That means sometime you need tu use "wrong" value to thing fly like reality in the game.

 

For instance, the maximum mission raduis value we use in our data is ABSOLUTELY wrong compared to real life... But we set it like this because after several test mission (more than 100 missions), we figured out that AI planes always fall in BINGO fuel. This kills the fun. So until air-refueling is possible, we choose to do what we think to be the best solution. This is just an example...

 

Now about using some data from Falcon 4 (http://www.checksix-fr.com/downloads/falcon4/Topolo/perf/Perf-Mig29.htm) As you can see, there are some real data from Mig29 manuel there. The rest are computed data. I don't know if you have such details in your manual but if so, you are a lucky man :wink: .

 

About the amount fuel amount for each part. Again, in real life fuel tanks are manage by system to avoid changing the gravity center of the plane. The syetem doesn't existe in TK's game. So we decided to put exactly equal amount of fuel for each tank.

 

And to finish, I see here and there some people complaining about the performance but nobody gives the details (alt, speed, rollrate ?, acceleration ? ....) needed to see what could be wrong.

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And to finish, I see here and there some people complaining about the performance but nobody gives the details (alt, speed, rollrate ?, acceleration ? ....) needed to see what could be wrong.

lindr2 says the moments of inertia were calculated based on max takeoff weight :blink:

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lindr2 says the moments of inertia were calculated based on max takeoff weight :blink:

 

Not exactly... The inertia is based on empty weight. But then I balanced it by the fact that I do not use TK flightcontrol values

 

PitchDamper

RollDamper

YawDamper

 

With experience I found that you get a better result playing with inertia :wink: ...

 

Again, what is important for me is to get the bird flying like in reality. How do you think I manage to build an "realistic" Helicopter FM in this game :haha:

Edited by kreelin

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Kreelin, in spite of all small disadvantages (we'll fix them, no doubt), it's a great addon. I admire that you are interested in our (russians) opinion and trying to discuss the problems so let me to say thanks again. Next time we need to work more closely if dealing with russian planes. As you probably know, a lot of formerly secret and very useful technical data are available now, but in Russian only.

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Lindr,

 

For instance, the maximum mission raduis value we use in our data is ABSOLUTELY wrong compared to real life... But we set it like this because after several test mission (more than 100 missions), we figured out that AI planes always fall in BINGO fuel. This kills the fun. So until air-refueling is possible, we choose to do what we think to be the best solution. This is just an example...

 

OK! no talking about mission radius, it'a very variable value, i have MiG-29 book about this ~ 200 pages.

 

Now about using some data from Falcon 4 (http://www.checksix-fr.com/downloads/falcon4/Topolo/perf/Perf-Mig29.htm) As you can see, there are some real data from Mig29 manuel there. The rest are computed data. I don't know if you have such details in your manual but if so, you are a lucky man :wink: .

 

i you have ORIGINAL MANUALS, interpretation not requered, maybe Falcon 4 data & ORIGINAL is identical, maybe but during convertation many problems can be occured transation error, iunits convertion errors [your data in non-metric units] ect. USING ORIGINAL MANUALS IS MORE EASY WAY.

 

About the amount fuel amount for each part. Again, in real life fuel tanks are manage by system to avoid changing the gravity center of the plane. The syetem doesn't existe in TK's game. So we decided to put exactly equal amount of fuel for each tank.

 

for fuselage it's reasonable, maybe. but wing fuel tanks shold have max 320 kg on each, it's important.

 

At anyway biggest problem is loadout:

 

9-12 {for internal use, non updated} can use 2BR in innerpylons only, max loadout 2000kg, max real life loadout 16700kg, no AHM, no R-27-ER, no R-27T, no EOGR, no FT on wings.

 

for 9-13 loadout increased to 3200KG & on wings FT allowed, & 2BR can be mounted on 4 pylons;

 

for 9-13S AHM introdused loadout increased to 4000KG

 

9-13SD,SE can carry 8 x FAB-500, loadout increased to 4500KG

 

About skins, sorry guys, skin desings in beatyfull, but i can't understang one thing: why captions is wrong? You can ask us [russians] for this, it's so easy...

 

When ravenclaw_007 worked at UB-16 & ub-32, he asked my about pod captions, it was 15 min deal.

 

MiG-29 is GOOD project, but detais are important, iy's not rivet counting, i always talking abour serious things...

 

about moments of inertia { i have some formulaes}

 

You set for mig-29 9-12 EmptyInertia=197413.39,30260.70,203674.09, Mig-29 empty W - 10900kg

ReferenceSpan=11.10 ReferenceLength=17.32

 

but for F-15c EmptyInertia=161708.0,28137.7,216005.0 EmptyMass=12973.0

ReferenceSpan=13.05 ReferenceLength=19.43

 

for f-16A EmptyMass=6607.59 EmptyInertia=96709.43,14059.72,100769.15

ReferenceSpan=9.15 ReferenceLength=14.52

 

for f-16 & F-15 i see the LOGIC, were is the logic for MiG-29 9-12? i tested 'unpatched' MiG-29 -> A-4 killed some of them by gunfire, it's REAL THING?

 

Of course i understand, what making FM model is very difficult work. I know it on own not so successful experience about an MiG-29BM.

Edited by lindr2

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i you have ORIGINAL MANUALS, interpretation not requered, maybe Falcon 4 data & ORIGINAL is identical, maybe but during convertation many problems can be occured transation error, iunits convertion errors [your data in non-metric units] ect. USING ORIGINAL MANUALS IS MORE EASY WAY.

 

My Mig29 manual (german Mig29 pilot manual) doesn't have all those details about performance.

 

for fuselage it's reasonable, maybe. but wing fuel tanks shold have max 320 kg on each, it's important.

 

No doubt in real life bird... :biggrin: But let me check why I did like this. Have to find my Mig29 structural pics which shows the fuel tanks placement :wink:

 

At anyway biggest problem is loadout:

 

9-12 {for internal use, non updated} can use 2BR in innerpylons only, max loadout 2000kg, max real life loadout 16700kg, no AHM, no R-27-ER, no R-27T, no EOGR, no FT on wings.

 

for 9-13 loadout increased to 3200KG & on wings FT allowed, & 2BR can be mounted on 4 pylons;

 

for 9-13S AHM introdused loadout increased to 4000KG

 

9-13SD,SE can carry 8 x FAB-500, loadout increased to 4500KG

 

This is not really my part. I don't know much about weapons. But as already discussed in the "realese thread", there are so many different version and sub version that it's hard to find the right information. But again, those are really easy to change so you can do every correction you want :yes:

 

 

About skins, sorry guys, skin desings in beatyfull, but i can't understang one thing: why captions is wrong? You can ask us [russians] for this, it's so easy...

When ravenclaw_007 worked at UB-16 & ub-32, he asked my about pod captions, it was 15 min deal.

 

What do you mean by caption ? Can you post a screenshot ?

 

 

about moments of inertia { i have some formulaes}

 

I use J.Roskan Aerodynamic formulas

 

You set for mig-29 9-12 EmptyInertia=197413.39,30260.70,203674.09, Mig-29 empty W - 10900kg

ReferenceSpan=11.10 ReferenceLength=17.32

 

but for F-15c EmptyInertia=161708.0,28137.7,216005.0 EmptyMass=12973.0

ReferenceSpan=13.05 ReferenceLength=19.43

 

for f-16A EmptyMass=6607.59 EmptyInertia=96709.43,14059.72,100769.15

ReferenceSpan=9.15 ReferenceLength=14.52

 

for f-16 & F-15 i see the LOGIC, were is the logic for MiG-29 9-12? i tested 'unpatched' MiG-29 -> A-4 killed some of them by gunfire, it's REAL THING?

 

As I said above to answer Gr.Viper, I change my x and y coeff for the inertia formulas to avoid to use TK's damper. It's physicaly not correct but the result is the bird behaves much realistic near the limit of flight envelop. In fact the game engine will give you the same result if you change the inertia values and play with damper :wink: But I don't like damper effect

 

Of course i understand, what making FM model is very difficult work. I know it on own not so successful experience about an MiG-29BM.

 

I know... :wink:

Edited by kreelin

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You manage to read it :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

What does it mean ??

 

It's not Easy - too many errors {need to se ORIGINAL pics, you have this?}

 

ОСТЧТСВИЕ -may be ОТСУТСТВИЕ - {absence}

 

НАЩИМЕ - i don't know can't imagine anyting

 

ЩАЯА - i don't know, may be ЩЕЛИ - {crack,slot,slit}

 

sorry, i can't read words like LKKHFR or NJHFDF, need the ORIGINAL pics.

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I suspect it could be "Отсутствие нажима" which might be something like a "No Step" (literally "Absense of pushing") caption planes are covered with. Although no sane Russian will say "отсутствие нажима" especially as a warning :blink: Maybe some Eastern-european MiG?

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