PC idiot's Multiplayer question

[Olham 164]

My neighbour and I would like to connect our two rigs directly via (LAN?) cable;

to fly co-op multiplayer missions.

Now, I would appreciate a detailed step-by-step explanation, of how to do it.

- which cable exactly do we need?

- is there something special, when connecting a Win XP rig with a Win Vista?

- what do we have to call up/set up, to "see" each other

 

And, when it works: what kind of missions or campaigns can be played?

Cause I saw "multiplayer" at least at two menues - which should I choose?

Edited March 28, 2009 by Olham

[Tamper 9]

As far as the setup goes:

 

You need what's called a 'crossover cable' or a Ethernet hub/switch/router. The cable is by far the least expensive way to connect two (but only two) machines. It is a regular piece of Cat5 cable, that has the 2 needed pairs of wires inverted. I can give explicit details if you like, but if you don't know how to make the cable and don't have the connectors/crimping tool, you're better off just buying one. If you have a hub/switch/router, they simply both need to be plugged into the device with a regular Ethernet "patch cable".

 

Both machines, when they boot, will use IP Autoconfiguration to assign themselves an IP address. (If you're using a router, then the router will assign each machine an IP). They'll both be in the same range/subnet, and shouldn't require any changes. Make sure both machines are in the same 'workgroup' (right-click MyComputer, go to Computer name tab). If not explicitly changed already, both will probably be in the same workgroup. Also, make sure that Windows Firewall isn't blocking the connection when you go to run MP (it will try if it's turned on).

 

Best way to make sure you're connected is to share a folder on each machine; go to My Network Places on each and you should 'see' the other.

 

That's about it, really,as far as the LAN part goes.

 

(EDIT - the foregoing applies to XP - can't speak for Vista, regretfully - but should be similar).

Edited March 29, 2009 by Tamper

[Olham 164]

Thank you, Tamper

We tried the direct connection with a crossover, but no connection. Maybe due to VISTA.

Now, I'll get me a new router and try, what you described. Sounds plain easy.

If I have success, I'll tell you on Thursday.

Thakns again!

[Tamper 9]

Olham, I hope it works out for you...unless you need a router, then a switch or hub are both probably cheaper. Router is only really necessary if you want to share Internet among PC's on your LAN.

 

The cable should work assuming it's a proper crossover cable - technically, the machine(s) don't know how they're physically connected - they just know whether there's a server present that assigns IP addresses (called a DHCP server) or not. If not, both machines should check for other machines and then autoconfigure an IP address. If an Ethernet adapter is present (even with no connection) the machine will give itself an IP.

 

Just to hazard a guess, I'm going to say the two machines were in different ranges. Go Start, Run, type 'cmd' and then (in command window) type ipconfig. This will tell you the IP address for the machine (again, this for XP, Vista would be similar). They need to be in the same IP 'range' (ex. 169.254.nnn.nnn typical) and 'subnet' (255.255.0.0). Regretfully, I don't know a lot about Vista - but I gather this same mechansim works as well - you can find out tons of stuff on autoconfiguration of IP addresses (called 'APIPA') on lots of websites (google to start).

 

More info http://support.microsoft.com/kb/220874

 

HTH

Edited March 29, 2009 by Tamper

[Olham 164]

This looks really helpful to me about the IP adresses. I've copied and save this, and will

use it on Thursday's meeting. Thank you very much, Tamper!

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Olham, try inserting tab 'A' into slot 'B' whilst crooning, "Make Believe"...

 

...sorry...sorry...too much coffee this morning I'm afraid. I'll leave this thread now.

 

 

"Only make believe I love you,

Only make believe that you love me.

Others find peace of mind in pretending,

Couldn't you?

Couldn't I?

Couldn't we?"

 

DAMN! Now I'll have that stuck in my brain for the rest of the day.

 

.

[OvS 8]

Olham,

 

If you get this to work, which I hope you do... please let us know as I'd like to make this post part of the Knowledge Base, and also make a copy for the 'Multiplayer' area.

 

This way folks that want to set-up LAN parties with OFF, can do so with good instruction.

 

All the best,

 

OvS

[Olham 164]

Oh my - didn't I mention, I was rather a pc idiot?

 

(But, well - perhaps you mean, if I get to grips with it, everybody can. Lol!)

[Smokey 0]

Just to add Vista should not be a problem. I have Vista, WinXP, and Win95 all running on the same network. Vista should configure itself

when it boots.

[Tuba2 1]

My neighbour and I would like to connect our two rigs directly via (LAN?) cable;

to fly co-op multiplayer missions.

 

Olham, I would not consider you a "PC Idiot". I enjoy reading your posts and was a mm from asking the same question. So thanks for taking the lead for some more of us who were wondering the same thing.

[Olham 164]

Thank you, Tuba, and all.

We will try the setup on Thursday or weekend, and I'll report after that.

 

Edit: Typhoon wrote in his signature: "The only stupid question is the one not asked" (or similar).

I think, this forum is a great opportunity to get the most possible out of the BHaH, WW1 combat aviation,

and even anything else, as this is a community, we won't find so easily elsewere.

 

I wish, everyone would drop their shame to ask a "stupid" question.

You'll always find gentle people, who are more than willing to answer them.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Olham

[sitting_duck 3]

if this is any help

 

my new computer has xp64, which would not recognize my wireless card, so had to put card back into old computer, tell old computer to share its internet, and hooked up new computer with patch cable, (which would switch to crossover if using a hub) So now the new computer is getting its internet from the old computer

 

when i start up a mp game on old compueter that game alwasys shows up on the new compueter in the server list. I just have to dbl click it.

 

i cant host a game on new computer as the interenal ip is not in the 192.168.1.xxx format, which it needs to be if i am going to be able to portworward the routher.

 

not sure if you could call this a LAN connection or not, as both compuertes are still running the game thru the intenet.

[Tamper 9]

if this is any help

 

my new computer has xp64, which would not recognize my wireless card, so had to put card back into old computer, tell old computer to share its internet, and hooked up new computer with patch cable, (which would switch to crossover if using a hub) So now the new computer is getting its internet from the old computer

 

when i start up a mp game on old compueter that game alwasys shows up on the new compueter in the server list. I just have to dbl click it.

 

i cant host a game on new computer as the interenal ip is not in the 192.168.1.xxx format, which it needs to be if i am going to be able to portworward the routher.

 

not sure if you could call this a LAN connection or not, as both compuertes are still running the game thru the intenet.

 

"hooked up new computer with patch cable, (which would switch to crossover if using a hub)"

 

Actually - if I'm following what you're saying - hubs don't normally use crossover cables, they use patch cables. If you're going from machine-to-machine, that (should be) a crossover cable. Most hubs/switches these days will 'auto-switch', though, if the wrong cable is plugged in. Some older hubs/switches had physical switches you had to turn on or off depending on the cable you used.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "interenal ip is not in the 192.168.1.xxx format" on the XP64 machine. If it's getting ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) from the other machine, they both should be in the same IP range (192.168.x.x). (If it's autoconfigured, the range would always be 169.254.x.x)

 

You can open a command prompt (go Start, Run) type 'cmd', then in the window that opens, type 'ipconfig /all'. This will give you either machine's IP - don't know why the IP on that machine woulnd't be in the 192.168 range. Probably better t host the game on the newer (faster) machine.

 

In any case, I don't think the game is being run over the Internet. It's hard to say, but I believe it's taking place on your internal LAN - try unplugging your router. If it still works, they're not running the game over the Internet.

[sitting_duck 3]

because the new computer is getting its internet from the old computers shared interenet, and the router may (or may not) be assigning the internal ip of the new computer, but anyways, it ends up being 192.168.0.203 the only thing i can edit in the port forwarding settings of the router are the last 3 digits of the ip...the 192.168.1 is fixed..

its got something to do with the default gateway, cause that is 198.168.0.1 on new computer in ipconfig

so, i can not host on the new computer,,,,but thats not a problem,,i just host on the old computer,,,and join that game..

 

It is definatly an internet game because if i want, i can chose join game, and just enter the external ip of the old computer, and it connects,

 

and,,,i think i said it wrong,,,used yellow cabel to go directly from old computers ethernet to new computers ethernet,,,thats not patch,,thats crossover

 

if you go from computer to hub to computer u use blue or gray,,,and thats a patch

 

as far as lan games go, dont know how far you are able to go with that.

The host has to connect to get the game up, and if there is no internet connection, don't think thats going to happen. Let us know if you find a work around for that.

[Tamper 9]

because the new computer is getting its internet from the old computers shared interenet, and the router may (or may not) be assigning the internal ip of the new computer, but anyways, it ends up being 192.168.0.203 the only thing i can edit in the port forwarding settings of the router are the last 3 digits of the ip...the 192.168.1 is fixed..

its got something to do with the default gateway, cause that is 198.168.0.1 on new computer in ipconfig

so, i can not host on the new computer,,,,but thats not a problem,,i just host on the old computer,,,and join that game..

 

It is definatly an internet game because if i want, i can chose join game, and just enter the external ip of the old computer, and it connects,

 

and,,,i think i said it wrong,,,used yellow cabel to go directly from old computers ethernet to new computers ethernet,,,thats not patch,,thats crossover

 

if you go from computer to hub to computer u use blue or gray,,,and thats a patch

 

as far as lan games go, dont know how far you are able to go with that.

The host has to connect to get the game up, and if there is no internet connection, don't think thats going to happen. Let us know if you find a work around for that.

 

I have 9 computers at home, all on a LAN behind a router. I have (at least twice) played OFF between two machines internally. I don't believe an Internet connection is necessary to the process at all. Nothing is required by either computer that would make an Internet connection necessary. *lol* In fact, many people are all up in arms about the fact that OFF's closest competitor (Rise of Flight) - albeit unreleased as yet - will supposedly require an Internet connection. Many who love OFF will tell you that's among the biggest things wrong with RoF. So, it's hard to imagine they'd feel that way if OFF itself required a network connection - see?

 

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about the colors of the cables. It may be that your specific network cables are certain colors depending on whether crossover or patch, but there is no such standard in Ethernet cables that I'm aware of. But, just to be sure, I checked CDW's web page: http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.asp...rtBy=TopSellers

They have both crossover and patch cables in more colors than the rainbow :)

 

The computer on which you're running ICS should have DHCP enabled - that means it should be assigning an address to the new machine as well (see this article for more: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/n...d_02july01.mspx ). Since you have a router, though, I think I know what might be happening. The router also acts as a DHCP, it's built-in. So, this is the DHCP from which your old machine gets it's IP address (in the 192.168.1.x range). The new machine, though, since it's setup to use ICS from the old machine, is getting it's IP from the old machine (DHCP service is enabled along with ICS as discussed in the article above, so that machines sharing the connection will get a 'leased' IP from the machine that is providing the shared connection). Since the two can't assign IP's in the same range on the same network segment (you can't have two DHCP servers on teh same segment), then the DHCP service on the old machine is giving out IP address(es) in a different range.

 

So how to fix it? Yours is a very unusual circumstance, brought on strictly due to XP64's inability to use your wireless adapter. I'd bet money no one ever considered having ICS and a router in the same network, because under any other circumstance, you would never have ICS enabled when you have a router to share Internet connectivity. *lol* The entire reason for ICS is if you don't have a router! (well, technically, ICS is used if you don't have a DHCP server - which a home router/"residential gateway" does). I don't think it's technically appropriate to have two DHCP servers in (this type of) a network - so, you should disable DHCP on the router. Especially if these are the only two machines, you don't need it anyway.

 

Technically, I believe, the router doesn't usually use DHCP and still forward ports at the same time - does your documentation say anything about having to use static IP addresses if you want to use port forwarding? What kind of router (make/model) is it?

 

Here's what I think you should be doing:

 

- disable DHCP on the router

- assign a static IP to the new machine, in the 192.168.1.x range (make x less than 100, but that's optional - I think it's just some people's habit to set static IPs to be less than 100)

- make sure both machines are in the 255.255.255.0 subnet

 

(Note I am assuming these are the only two machines on your network; you didn't indicate otherwise - if you have more than two, it's going to get complicated). If your new machine has a network adapter (you use a cable to connect it to the old machine), then why don't you just plug the new machine into the router? (I'm going to guess that the old and new machines are in the same location/room, but the router is somewhere else you don't wish to run cables to).

 

As far as the 'external' vs. internal game goes, you said first "when i start up a mp game on old compueter that game alwasys shows up on the new compueter in the server list. I just have to dbl click it. " But then you said "It is definatly an internet game because if i want, i can chose join game, and just enter the external ip of the old computer, and it connects" Still, since both machines are behind a router, I'm thinking your game is actually running inside your network - a router isn't likely to route to the WAN if it knows the traffic is both comnig from and directed to machines on it's inside. I suspect the 'external' IP has more to do with running two DHCP servers (but I could be wrong).

 

Not sure why you would have to enter an (external) IP when it sounds like the game was already 'seen' inside (in the server list). Does it actually show up without your having to enter the external address, or does it show up because you entered the IP address? Anyway, you should be able to connect strictly inside your network.

 

Maybe it'll help, but maybe you'd prefer to do it like you are. For me, it's more about curiosity as to how/why it is the way you describe it. I hope that makes sense :)

Edited March 31, 2009 by Tamper

[sitting_duck 3]

Thats interesting about the cabels...

 

I had always thout that crossover was yellow, and patch was blue or gray......Only cause this is what i've seen in retail pack....amd never seen a router that came with anything other than blue or gray.

 

lol...and right about sharing a wireless connextion,,,not in the mainstream to say the least.

 

and,,,as far as the router goes,,,,what you said may work, but the business next to me (they have cable interntet) let me put in a router, and get the signal. In so far as its my router, not worth it to mess things up.

 

 

As soon as a game is up on old computer, when i go to new computer and get into the mp window, i see this.

 

 

 

I can either dbl click on the game, or use the join game, and enter the external ip of the game, to connect. The host/join window will not change any.

 

Now if i click on join game, and enter the internal ip of the host, it will connect, and now the host/join window will look like this

 

 

 

in the past, if i have been connected to someones game, and for whatever reason had to get out and get back in, occaisionaly their game will show up in the server list.

 

So i guess you could say i am running both,,,a lan and a wan game. What i dont know for sure, is if this were a normal setup, ie 2 computers with wireless adaptors, and I hosted the game on one computer, would i be able to join on the second computer with both the internal and external ip's of the host. Seeing as how you are set up in pretty much that manner, you might be able to answer this better.

 

I am assuming from your post when you jdid your games, and joined the host computer you entered the internal ip of the host, and connected. that doesnt mean if you had entered the external ip of the host it would not have also connected.

 

In regards to the original post, (ie getting olham up and running with the neighbor) , if by some miricle he is still reading this thread, would be interested to find out if he ever got his game up and running.

[Tamper 9]

I had said "I'm going to guess that the old and new machines are in the same location/room, but the router is somewhere else you don't wish to run cables to"

 

and you replied "the business next to me (they have cable interntet) let me put in a router, and get the signal"

 

So, I guess that pretty much covers that :)

 

As far as what you do to run MP (and whether I enter the address manually): I don't enter the address at all. The hosting machine shows up in the list, just as in your first example. And, what (I think) this shows is the very difference we're discussing. The 'inside' game shows up; there's no need to enter an address because it's 'found' by the game (presumably because both our games are run on the LAN side of a router).

 

I don't know about entering the external address manually causing the game to run 'outside', since technically no computer inside a router shares the 'public IP' (this is kind of the whole point of a router, after all - even for a machine in a so-called "DMZ"). Anyhow, I never actually enter an address, mostly because I don't need to *lol*

 

Mind you, I'm not saying it doesn't happen that way, just that I wouldn't think so - but then again, as discussed, you are essentially doing something that wasn't ever intended...so that sort of hoses up all the conventions. I honestly believe the unique result you seem to have is a direct product of the obviously unique setup you have.

 

Even if you enter what is actually an 'outside' WAN address, I believe the router never actually sends the traffic outside - routers are (somewhat) smart - smart enough, I think, to know that both your machines occur inside the LAN, and therefore it wouldn't bother sending the traffic outside.

 

For the question you asked about the two 'normal' wireless machines and the game being both inside and outside - no, I don't think it would be both. I don't use wireless at all, but the principle is essentially the same: Behind a router, in a 'normal' arrangement, the router isn't likely to route traffic between two internal machines outside to the WAN. Think about it - doing this would mean needlessly exposing both machines to the WAN - the very thing the router is there to prevent. Not to mention it's bombarding the (comparatively slow) WAN side with traffic that is only to and from the inside, regardless. The router knows full well who's on it's ports (wireless or wired), it does this by MAC address, I believe. So, I believe it knows to avoid the (very inefficient) sending of traffic along to the outside, where that traffic already has a destination inside the LAN.

 

I hope all that makes sense. I'm certainly not a network engineer, but I've set up a few and I do work with them in my 'day job'. I actually even consulted our IT Manager about this very scenario - and he agreed, you have (in his words) 'a pretty jacked-up situation going on there' *lmao* But still...it seems to work for you :) Who knows?

 

And yes, I am looking forward to hearing back from Olham soon...I think his situation will work out just peachy, and that (may be) helpful to others here, apparently. Couldn't ask for better.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Tamper

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

i do not know how it would run with a "Null-modem" cable simply connecting the serial ports ? Anyway i think the usual network cable cat5 and up will be better performance-wise.

 

One thing is the routers here in Germany sometimes do not have the 192.168.1.1 ip (1und1 with Draytek routers and a lot of others have - ok), but e.g. the T-Com routers have an 11, or even a 101 as last digit (esp. the common speedport routers).

Then you can work with dynamic IP, so all PCs going online receive a random IP every time, or you change that to a static IP, usually being e.g. one PC gets the 192.168.1.10, and the other the 192.168.1.11 - but as said before probably not with the T-com routers because the 10 or 11 may be the router's own IP.

 

And the installation of OFF certainly has to be exactly the same on both machines ..

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[Valen 0]

Hi all, I'm a new member and a PC-idiot type as well. I have a similar situation where I would like to set up my computer so a friend of mine and I can co-play so to speak. The challenge is that I'm located on the West coast and he's on the East coast.

 

The configuration on my end consists of the line in from the ISP which goes to a switch. One PC is connected to that switch as well as a wireless accesses point and another switch. The second switch has a PC, a Mac and a printer connected to it. The PC connected to the second switch is the machine I want to host the game on.

 

I understand that this configuration complicates things a lot. Any help anyone can provide will be really appreciated.

[sitting_duck 3]

hi

 

ok,,,so you just want to have one person host a game,,and another join it,,,thats pretty staight forward..

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38466

 

cant say this is going to answer all your questions, but it will put you on the right track. person hosting, if they are using a wireless router (which i think is you) has to forward the correct ports in the router.

 

If you want,..get teamspeak..the settings for it are in the link above. If we can talk while we try to connext to each other it makes things so much easier. Then we can try and hook up to each other, and iron out the problems that might occur

 

You let me know what days times are good for you, and ill try and get on.

[Valen 0]

hi

 

ok,,,so you just want to have one person host a game,,and another join it,,,thats pretty staight forward..

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38466

 

cant say this is going to answer all your questions, but it will put you on the right track. person hosting, if they are using a wireless router (which i think is you) has to forward the correct ports in the router.

 

If you want,..get teamspeak..the settings for it are in the link above. If we can talk while we try to connext to each other it makes things so much easier. Then we can try and hook up to each other, and iron out the problems that might occur

 

You let me know what days times are good for you, and ill try and get on.

 

 

Let me go to the link you have above and see how far I can get. Been off of work due to some surgery and am going back tomorrow so not sure of my schedule yet. Will keep in touch.