D.VII's in three flavors?

[Hauksbee 103]

I've been getting the feel of the D.VII lately, but, so far, I've only flown the D.VII at the top of the list. How do the other two differ from the standard D.VII?

[Olham 164]

The D VII F was a Hoehenjaeger (high altitude fighter).

It was about 15 km/h faster, and, if the data I found were right, it had a much better climb rate.

 

Which other is there?

Edited April 12, 2009 by Olham

[Hauksbee 103]

The D VII F was a Hoehenjaeger (high altitude fighter).

It was about 15 km/h faster, and, if the data I found were right, it had a much better climb rate.

 

Which other is there?

 

 

The D.VII OAW. [?]

[Olham 164]

OAW means Ostdeutsche Albatros Werke (as far as I know), but didn't know, they built the Fokker D VII?

Wikipedia didn't list that either.

Here's some data they had:

 

D VII: flüssigkeitsgekühlter 6 Zyl.-Reihenmotor: Mercedes D.IIIa, Startleistung (120 kW) 160 PS,

D VII F: BMW D.IIIa (Höhenmotor), Startleistung 185 PS

Höchstgeschwindigkeit: 189 km/h in 1.000 m Höhe 205 km/h in 2.000 m Höhe

Steigzeit auf 1.000 m: 5 Minuten 48 Sekunden F: 2 Minuten 24 Sekunden

Steigzeit auf 3.000 m: 8 Minuten 12 Sekunden

Steigzeit auf 5.000m: 31 Minuten 30 Sekunden F: 15 Minuten 18 Sekunden

Gipfelhöhe: 6.000 m F: 7.000 m

Reichweite: 350 km

Flugzeit: 1 Stunde 30 Minuten

Bewaffnung: 2 LMG 08/15

Edited April 12, 2009 by Olham

[dixieflyer 0]

I've been getting the feel of the D.VII lately, but, so far, I've only flown the D.VII at the top of the list. How do the other two differ from the standard D.VII?

 

Hauksbee,

The D.VII was built by three manufacturers: Fokker, Albatros, and OAW. In terms of performance, if memory serves, they are pretty much the same, their main differences being mostly in terms of cosmetics, i.e.: different cooling louvres, dope/paint finish, lozenge pattern, etc. . However, the D.VIIF (produced by Fokker, once again if memory serves) had a different engine with higher horsepower. The F was produced in very limited numbers compared to the standard D.VII produced by Fokker and the contractors of Albatros and OAW. If you need to know more, or want verification, I will go dig in my files for the information.

 

BTW, if you are really a D.VII fan and really love the mark, buy all three volumes of the Fokker D.VII Datafile by Albatros productions. Pricey, but worth it if you are really into D.VII's.

 

HTH, YMMV,

 

Warren

[Hauksbee 103]

The D.VII was built by three manufacturers: Fokker, Albatros, and OAW. In terms of performance, if memory serves, they are pretty much the same....

 

There it is. Thanks guys.

[Hasse Wind 46]

The best thing about the D.VIIF was its climbing ability, it could climb to 5000 m twice as fast the normal D.VII. This made it a very popular fighter among German pilots, but if I remember correctly, the F model was never manufactured in very large quantities. It was introduced much later than the D.VII.

 

I seem to recall that Albatros GmbH and its subsidiary OAW had some early problems with manufacturing D.VII's, but once they were fixed, they actually produced better and more D.VII's than Fokker itself. Albatros had to pay a five percent royalty to Fokker for each D.VII they made, which they didn't like very much, but could do nothing about it. There were also some problems with standardisation between the different factories, which resulted in some parts not being interchangeable between D.VII's built in different plants.

 

I haven't yet flown with the D.VII in OFF campaign mode, but they kick Entente ass in QC (as they should!). Hopefully my pilot in Jasta 10 lives long enough to actually receive the new Fokker...

[Hauksbee 103]

'Flew the D.VIIF about an hour ago. This is the way to go. In a chase I could keep the nose higher than I've ever been able to with any other plane. And without getting constant yellow flashing Stall warnings.

[Olham 164]

The D VII was so much better than any other craft, that it was the ONLY aircraft, that was particularly named in the peace treaty.

 

Have only used it in QC yet, but with that craft, I can kill anything - even when badly outnumbered.

A "killer warthog" as I call her - ugly, but extremely effective!

[dixieflyer 0]

Olham, a search of the history tells us that the reason it was the only a/c named in the treaty was because it was present in such great numbers, more than any other a/c.

 

Warren

Edited April 12, 2009 by dixieflyer

[Olham 164]

More than Sopwith Camels even? That would surprise me.

[Olham 164]

Well, I did a quick check of production numbers here:

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft

 

S.E.5a: 5,205

 

Sopwith Camel: 5.490

 

Fokker D VII: 1.000

 

In Wikipedia I just read, that this specific craft had to be handed over

to the Allies (or to be destroyed), due to it's extreme fighter qualities.

[Hasse Wind 46]

In Wikipedia I just read, that this specific craft had to be handed over

to the Allies (or to be destroyed), due to it's extreme fighter qualities.

 

That's the reason I've read and heard from practically every source I've ever come across. Numbers couldn't have been the reason, because German aircraft production numbers were seriously behind Entente production, especially British, who had the largest aviation industry in the world at the war's end.

[godzilla1985 0]

I think there is more to the Fokker DVII being singled out in the treaty of Versailles other then it being a superlative fighter. Sometimes facts get intermingled with myth. The Fokker DVII, A6m2 Zero, P-51D, Supermarine Spitfire, Fw-190 and Me-262 are just some AC that have a mythical status. I do believe the main reason the DVII was mentioned in the treaty was somewhat about the aircraft but more about the man and the company that bore his name Anthony Fokker. He wasn't a German national he was Dutch and so the victors couldn't punish him the way they did the other German aircraft industries. So the Ententie made sure he couldn't slide back to his home country and continue making the DVII, the banned it specifically in the treaty. A little pay back for all the headaches Mr.Fokker and his company caused the Ententie? After the war Mr. Fokker did go back to his homeland and continued making aircraft, while he did continue making fighters and some bombers nothing approached the status of the war machines his company produced during WWI. Now commercial aviation is a whole different story for the Fokker company. I was wondering something, as far as WWI aircraft manufacturers go is Fokker the only company still around?

[dixieflyer 0]

Olham,

Well, and please take this in the spirit it is intended, Wikipedia which is about as authoritative as the back of a cereal box when it comes to historical accuracy, etc. It is a great jumping off point, but not a good source in an of itself for historical matters. I would highly suggest a website such as the Aerodrome

( http://www.theaerodrome.com/ ). This is a much better site, and it has a great forum where you can get questions answered for you by a great number of people that actually earn their living writing about WWI aviation. I am sure there are others. (I do not allow my students to use Wikipedia as a cited source in my classroom, I'm such a meanie.)

 

Now, on to the D.VII, you misinterpreted my statement regarding its numbers. It was present in larger numbers than any other late war produced fighter at the time in the GERMAN AIR SERVICE. Here is a quote from Ray Rimell from his Fokker D.VII Anthology, Vol. I:

 

"Much has been made of the fact that the Fokker D.VII was the only aircraft specifically mentioned thus in the Armistance terms, where it was decreed that all examples of this type were to handed over tho the Allies. Despite the inference that it was accorded this honour because of its outstanding quality and without disputing the excellence of its design and performance, it seems logical to suppose that the occupying powers, in order to suppress any resurgent action by militant groups within the defeated German nation, would ask for the surrender of that fighting vehicle which they knew to exist in the greatest numbers." (p. 1, Fokker Anthology, Vol. I, R. Rimell)

 

Now, while I realize that Mr. Rimell is just as prone to mistakes as I or anyone else, I do consider him more of an authority than Wikipedia. As Godzilla1985 said, a lot of things (that are untrue) get said to the point that the lie or myth gets repeated enough that it becomes the truth.

 

I hope this helps clear up my statement. BTW, while somewhat pricey, these three volumes are a great resource for any D.VII fan. I kind of balked at their initial cost, but I absolutely love them. (To be honest ANY publication from Albatros Productions is a worthwhile investment for the WWI aviation fan.)

[Olham 164]

I'm not at all a D VII fan, I find, she looks like a flying soap box.

And for the history, all sounds reasonable, what you both wrote, and I know, some things may

never be fully cleared. Also I notice often, that the former opponent sides have both their own

truths in some differing points. Performance data for example, do often differ in a way, that you

could almost say: British planes performed better in British data, wereas German craft did better

in German data. Now, I don't want to start a hassle about such things; and certainly not for Mr.

Fokker, who was, as you said, Dutch. I'm not a real life pilot either. I haven't even seen these

planes in the air, cause I'm not as lucky as the Americans or Australians, to have airshows with

these crates.

All experience I have with a Fokker D VII is flying it in this simulation. And there I found, she does

perform most dangerously. Had I to fight an "online air combat", she should be my best choice.

Although - I'm such a style and design freak, I would perhaps rather "die" in a beautiful fighter

as the Albatros D Va, than to be the victor in a flying soapbox.

[dixieflyer 0]

Olham,

Do not feel bad, even today primary source documents are not in agreement with each other in regards to performance. There was a recent discussion over on the Aerodrome about the engine in the D.VIIF and even the original sources from Germany are not in agreement with each other as to the horsepower, speed, etc. We just have to chalk it up to one of those things in history we may never truly know. (Which is the beauty of studying history, all that "CSI" work.)

 

The D.VII is not my favorite German a/c either, I am an Albatros man myself as well. Of course, the beautiful design came about as a result of the Germans capturing my favorite French a/c, the Nieuport. Like you though, I would pick a D.VII in an online late war scrap.

 

Warren

[PrairieFlcn 0]

Ever since my first Revell plastic model back in the 60's the DVII has been my favorite Great War fighter. Have to disagree with Olham on this, I think she has beautiful lines and a very menacing demeanor. She's a dream to fly. Ever since I've gotten P3 up and running I've almost exclusively flown DVIIs (with a few QC sorties in the DrI and the Alb).

 

The real beauty of P3 is the wonderful diversity. Enough choices to keep us all happy! I downloaded the tutorial tonight to try my hand at skinning. My first skin will be my own custom colored DVII.