Typhoon Brimstones wrong way round!

[Planejunky 0]

I've just bought SF2 Europe and I'm still ironing out the issues, however this one's a real mystery! The Brimstone missiles are appearing the wrong way round on the Typhoon, however they're fine on the Harrier and Tornado. Anyone have a clue how to fix this one please?

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[Planejunky 0]

The weard thing is that when loaded like this they're fine!

 

There's something that the Typhoon doesn't like when loading the three rail version of Brimstone, as it's fine on every other aircraft. I've tried everything I know to fix the problem but I'm now completely stumped.

 

[+Jarhead1 27]

U dont know? Those are rear facing missile pylons so u can shoot targets behind ur aircraft that u overflew and didnt see till it was too late. I figured u would have heard of those before.

[zmatt 2]

It could be an issue with the orientation of the pylon.

[Planejunky 0]

U dont know? Those are rear facing missile pylons so u can shoot targets behind ur aircraft that u overflew and didnt see till it was too late. I figured u would have heard of those before.

 

Oh you are soooooo helpful!!

[Planejunky 0]

It could be an issue with the orientation of the pylon.

 

The actual rails are canted slightly downwards which is correct, it's just the missiles are back to front though ironically still correctly canted downwards. The problem has to be within this aircraft as they're fine on everything else.

[FastCargo 412]

Show me a picture of the Brimstones on the correct 3 rail pylon on another aircraft...I suspect I know the issue.

 

FC

[Planejunky 0]

Show me a picture of the Brimstones on the correct 3 rail pylon on another aircraft...I suspect I know the issue.

 

FC

 

Thery're shown above on the Harrier and Tornado, however here's a closer shot on a Harrier. Cheers for the help!

 

[FastCargo 412]

Not the proper rack. Use the dedicated Brimstone rack as on the Typhoon. Then show me a screenshot.

 

FC

[Planejunky 0]

Not the proper rack. Use the dedicated Brimstone rack as on the Typhoon. Then show me a screenshot.

 

FC

 

 

I thought I had, as it's been installed with the SF2 weapons editor.

 

Here's the lines from the Typhoon LOADOUT, followed by the data file of the installed Brimstone launch rails.

 

[Attack]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=Meteor

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=Meteor

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=Meteor

Loadout[03].Quantity=1

Loadout[04].WeaponType=Meteor

Loadout[04].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=ASRAAM

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

Loadout[06].WeaponType=ASRAAM

Loadout[06].Quantity=1

Loadout[07].WeaponType=Brimstone

Loadout[07].Quantity=3

Loadout[07].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[08].WeaponType=BrimStone

Loadout[08].Quantity=3

Loadout[08].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[09].WeaponType=BrimStone

Loadout[09].Quantity=3

Loadout[09].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[10].WeaponType=BrimStone

Loadout[10].Quantity=3

Loadout[10].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[11].WeaponType=BrimStone

Loadout[11].Quantity=3

Loadout[11].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[12].WeaponType=BrimStone

Loadout[12].Quantity=3

Loadout[12].Racktype=BrimStone3Pack

Loadout[13].WeaponType=Typhoon tank

Loadout[13].Quantity=1

 

 

[WeaponData001]

TypeName=BrimStone3Pack

FullName=BrimStone 3-Pack

ModelName=BrimstoneLaunchRails

Mass=55.000000

Diameter=0.203200

Length=1.600000

SubsonicDragCoeff=0.200000

SupersonicDragCoeff=0.770000

AttachmentType=UK

SpecificStationCode=

NationName=RAF

StartYear=1999

EndYear=2020

Availability=2

BaseQuantity=25

Exported=FALSE

ExportStartYear=0

ExportEndYear=0

ExportAvailability=0

WeaponDataType=6

WeaponsRackType=TLR

NumWeapons=3

LoadLimit=51.000000

LengthLimit=1.810000

MaxFuelAmount=0.000000

Attachment01Position=-0.215000,-0.004500,-0.059000

Attachment01Angle=0.000000,-167.876633,0.000000

Attachment02Position=0.215000,-0.004500,-0.059000

Attachment02Angle=0.000000,-167.876633,0.000000

Attachment03Position=0.000000,0.082900,-0.112600

Attachment03Angle=0.000000,-167.876633,0.000000

 

 

I have the racks in the weapons folder. Do the rack types need to go into a seperate folder away from the actual weapons?

 

Cheers.

[Planejunky 0]

Ok this is getting really weard now. I uninstalled the Brimstone3pack using the weapons editor, and then deleted the folder. I've re-installed it but I'm still getting the same issue. If I fly a CAS mission on the range I get this loadout (looks like Maverick rails to me, rather than the proper Brimstone rails), and I have to actually select the weapons in the load out screen.

 

 

 

 

If I fly the CAS mission over Germany, I get the Brimstone loadout defined in the aircraft's LOADOUT.ini with the correct rails but the missiles back to front like this!

 

 

 

 

I've designated the Brimstones in the Harrier LOADOUT.ini too, and the same thing is happening.

 

 

 

Really odd as I never had any issues with this in SF Gold. I'm guessing it's a problem with how the weapon is displayed on the rail. When you fire the weapon, it then displays correctly, fires forward of the aircraft and hits a target correctly.

 

Edited July 22, 2009 by Planejunky

[FastCargo 412]

It isn't weird, the rail is the problem. That's why I wanted to see the Brimstones on the Brimstone weapon rail on other aircraft to verify it's the rail and not the aircraft.

 

I've noticed that sometimes when a weapon rail is first imported into SF2 and used the first time, it screws with the data.ini and put's in some weird rotation angles. I'll bet if you look in the data.ini of the Brimstone rail, you'll see the attachment angle parameter has a ridiculous value on one of the axis. Fix that value (the only angle that should be something other than zero is the pitch angle...negative single digit...just don't remember what that value is).

 

That should fix your problem. In addition, as far as I know, the Brimstone only mounts on it's specific rail and is not supposed to use any other rail.

 

FC

[Planejunky 0]

It isn't weird, the rail is the problem. That's why I wanted to see the Brimstones on the Brimstone weapon rail on other aircraft to verify it's the rail and not the aircraft.

 

I've noticed that sometimes when a weapon rail is first imported into SF2 and used the first time, it screws with the data.ini and put's in some weird rotation angles. I'll bet if you look in the data.ini of the Brimstone rail, you'll see the attachment angle parameter has a ridiculous value on one of the axis. Fix that value (the only angle that should be something other than zero is the pitch angle...negative single digit...just don't remember what that value is).

 

That should fix your problem. In addition, as far as I know, the Brimstone only mounts on it's specific rail and is not supposed to use any other rail.

 

FC

 

Those Maverick rails are by default and not something I've done, so I agree they're a bit of a mystery.

 

I've just changed the parameter from

 

Attachment02Angle=0.000000,-167.876633,0.000000

 

to

 

Attachment02Angle=0.000000,-3.876633,0.000000

 

and that seems to have fixed it! Many thanks for the help!

 

Edited July 22, 2009 by Planejunky

[+EricJ 4,245]

Actually didn't know about this... but just in case.... just replace this on your SF2 install:

 

[WeaponData001]

TypeName=BrimStone3Pack

FullName=BrimStone 3-Pack

ModelName=BrimstoneLaunchRails

Mass=55.000000

Diameter=0.203200

Length=1.600000

SubsonicDragCoeff=0.200000

SupersonicDragCoeff=0.770000

AttachmentType=NATO,UK

SpecificStationCode=

NationName=RAF

StartYear=1999

EndYear=2020

Availability=2

BaseQuantity=25

Exported=FALSE

ExportStartYear=0

ExportEndYear=0

ExportAvailability=0

WeaponDataType=6

WeaponsRackType=TLR

NumWeapons=3

LoadLimit=51.000000

LengthLimit=1.810000

MaxFuelAmount=0.000000

Attachment01Position=-0.215000,-0.004500,-0.059000

Attachment01Angle=0.000000,-3.876633,0.000000

Attachment02Position=0.215000,-0.004500,-0.059000

Attachment02Angle=0.000000,-3.876633,0.000000

Attachment03Position=0.000000,0.082900,-0.112600

Attachment03Angle=0.000000,-3.876633,0.000000

 

I'd also like to ask people that once they fix SF2 bugs, please as a good samaritan service, PM 331Killerbee and FastCargo/Kowalski. (or those weapons that you know belong to the author) your fixes so they can update their own files accordingly. Plus you're helping out the community as well by allowing them to get the files fixed/updated, and the community to have the fixes too.

[jomni 6]

Good advice. I alway make it a point to contact the modders (in the release thread) when there's a possible bug. Maybe PM is more efficient. :D

 

Anyway, took the Brimstone for a CAS mission and they keep missing the targets when released from a horizontal profile. But when i attack from a vertical (dive bombing profile), they guide properly. Aren't these missiles derivatives of the Hellfire? They're not as maneuverable when flying horizontally. The vertical attack profile seems be similar to "Lock On After Launch" mode (but the delivery aircraft is also vertical). Is this how the missile should really perform in the game?

Edited July 24, 2009 by jomni

[+EricJ 4,245]

I was using them quite a bit for some ad hoc SEAD work after that post I made and fired horizontally, and an angle. Could be the fact you're firing too close?

[Planejunky 0]

As soon as the fix worked, I placed the solution on the knowledge base pages for others to read. It'll hopefully save some head scratching in the future!

Edited July 24, 2009 by Planejunky

[Planejunky 0]

Good advice. I alway make it a point to contact the modders (in the release thread) when there's a possible bug. Maybe PM is more efficient. :D

 

Anyway, took the Brimstone for a CAS mission and they keep missing the targets when released from a horizontal profile. But when i attack from a vertical (dive bombing profile), they guide properly. Aren't these missiles derivatives of the Hellfire? They're not as maneuverable when flying horizontally. The vertical attack profile seems be similar to "Lock On After Launch" mode (but the delivery aircraft is also vertical). Is this how the missile should really perform in the game?

 

I've also found this problem, they tend to hit where the target was at the time of the launch, hence missing a moving target even when fired 2 miles out. A stationary tank is no problem though. Like many things this was never a problem in the old SF Gold or WoE.

[FastCargo 412]

Because SFG and the WOx series did not implement GPS homing properly.

 

That has now been fixed. However, this also means certain weapons are now broken.

 

In the older series, GPS homing was treated as an extension of TV/IR homing, therefore moving targets could be engaged. I used this guidance system to simulate using a millimeter wave radar that the actual Brimstone and AGM-114L Hellfire use.

 

However, now GPS homing is more true to actual implementation, which means the weapon now guides onto a coordinate, not a particular object. That's why your missiles are hitting where the target was, not where it is.

 

What's that mean? Any weapons currently using GuidanceType=8 that are meant to engage mobile targets must now use a different guidance type. I've switch mine to GuidanceType=6, and that seems to have fixed the issue.

 

FC

[jomni 6]

I was using them quite a bit for some ad hoc SEAD work after that post I made and fired horizontally, and an angle. Could be the fact you're firing too close?

 

but SEAD targets don't move, my problem is that when the missile tracks moving tanks, it misses and hits the ground a few feet back. not as maneuverable as mavericks.

 

Kowalski...

Oh so they used GPS to substitute MWR. That explains the locking on initial target position.

Edited July 24, 2009 by jomni

[Planejunky 0]

What's that mean? Any weapons currently using GuidanceType=8 that are meant to engage mobile targets must now use a different guidance type. I've switch mine to GuidanceType=6, and that seems to have fixed the issue.

 

FC

 

Yep that's fixed it, cheers for the help!

[+EricJ 4,245]

As soon as the fix worked, I placed the solution on the knowledge base pages for others to read. It'll hopefully save some head scratching in the future!

 

Oh good looking out don't get me wrong, but it's bound to also get lost too amongst everything else. So still it's looking out for those who also make it too just so they're not looking jacked up either