VERY strange, for FC and Dave

[Canadair]

Ok this is interesting .

I can't yet move to SF2 which I own mostly because I am away from home

Nevertheless I am downloading and downgrading SF2 planes. I downgrade RWR, makes ure decals arein proper folder and proper path, and that basically is, I guess

I had this very strange occurence to tell, pelase read carefully.

 

The T-38 was not showing up in the list of usable airlplanes. Since when that happned is usually a problem with plane.ini file I started fromt here.

I Alos noticed there was a T-38 thunderbird for gen1 made by FC because for some reason a lot of people was having problem to downgrade. I took the the T-38atb.ini, cancelled everything in it and copied and pasted the SAME from the t-38a.ini. dropped the file in t-38a folder (not TB) and it worked!

 

I noticed as well the B-52 were not showing up, but the B-52G early one. I copied the B-52g_early renamed it B-52G_late .ini and cut and paste everythign from the B-52g_late.ini contained in the download zip. The new B-52G_late,ini file has the SAME content as the one in the zip, and has been renamed, but the original file was of the B-52Gearly that appearead in the plane list.

 

This worked for all the other B-52 in the series, and for the new raptor as well. (I copied the whole old F-22A.ini EMPTIED it and dumped the content of the NEW F-22A.ini

 

Is there a rational eplanation to this? I understand very well no support is offered for downgrading, but I thoguht this was too strange not to be reported.

 

(as a note , all planes in question seem fine in characteristics, skins, decals, cockpits, etc now they are flyable)

[+Dave]

Downgrading to SF1 does weird crap. It is hit or miss and I advise against it. I have no idea why it does it.

[bwild]

Could it be that the SF2 ini files are in Unicode, something WOx series can not read. So what you are basically doing is saving them as ASCII files with a detour.

[+Dave]

I think bwild is right, the Unicode does something and give you a ton of issues for backwards compatibility. I know that one of FC planes can not be used in the old sim at all.

[Canadair]

I think bwild is right, the Unicode does something and give you a ton of issue for backwards compatibility. I know that one of FC planes can not beused in the old sim at all.

 

 

yes I think too it is the unicode that causes the problem. And yes it was one of the T-38A that could not be used. Well, it was good that it has been figured out. basically it is jsut amtter of re-saving the file in ASCII.

I thoguht it was a peculiar finding I wanted to share with the community. Evenutally we will have to move tot he next gen, but many like me can't find the time at the present moment. Personally, I need a few weeks off to upgrade and update, which won't ahppen before october. In the meanwhile though playing is possible, so a little of backward compatibilty options are good. Again, one doesn't expect support from the modders in that filed and this understandable, hence one reason to share all the findings with community.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Canadair

[+FastCargo]

The question is, when does the unicode kick in? I only use notepad or WinMerge for ini editing, and it doesn't tell me when it's saving in ASCII vs Unicode.

 

There has been some other weirdness, especially in the T-38s/F-5B models. For some reason, the nozzles don't work in the T-38, but work fine in the F-5B series, and it's the same damn MAX model! Also, using the multi LOD setup has caused issues with some LODs being visible at much longer distances than they should be.

 

It's all minor, but very annoying.

 

FC

[Canadair]

The question is, when does the unicode kick in? I only use notepad or WinMerge for ini editing, and it doesn't tell me when it's saving in ASCII vs Unicode.

 

There has been some other weirdness, especially in the T-38s/F-5B models. For some reason, the nozzles don't work in the T-38, but work fine in the F-5B series, and it's the same damn MAX model! Also, using the multi LOD setup has caused issues with some LODs being visible at much longer distances than they should be.

 

It's all minor, but very annoying.

 

FC

 

I have no idea FC. But actually I noticed that while trying to make theT-38A work, which eventually made me understand where the problem was with f-22 and b-52s

I installed the T-38 and it was not working. when that happens it is notmally an aircraft.ini problem of some sort. So I ran the game, found no T-38A in the list.. I open with notepad the t-38.ini and this is what I ve found.:

 

 

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[TextureSet001]

Directory=1 RS

Name=1st Reconnaissance Squadron

Nation=USAF

Squadron=1RS

Specular=1.000000

Glossiness=1.000000

Reflection=0.500000

 

[TextureSet002]

Directory=71 FTS

Name=71st Flying Training Squadron

Nation=USAF

Squadron=71FTS

Specular=1.000000

Glossiness=1.000000

Reflection=0.500000

 

[TextureSet003]

Directory=87 FTS

Name=87th Flying Training Squadron

Nation=USAF

Squadron=87FTS

Specular=1.000000

Glossiness=1.000000

Reflection=0.500000

 

[TextureSet004]

Directory=9 BS

Name=9th Bomber Squadron

Nation=USAF

Squadron=9BS

Specular=0.150000

Glossiness=0.150000

Reflection=0.000000

 

Yest, exactly this. Obviously screwed up, I thought must have been some bad unzipping of the file. So I redownload the package, and extract the file.. open it BEFORE launching the game, verify it is the proper one and it is formally correct. Then I launched the game, and again, no T-38A in the list.

I recotnrolled the T-38A file, and it was AGAIN, exactly what I posted above. The game actually modified the .ini file.

 

At this point I read in the threads that you had made a gen1 T-38A TB. I downlaoded it and, copied the T-38A.ini file's content (a good one reunzipped from the package) into the T-38A TB.ini. I renamed it to jsut t-38 and magically there is the Talon int he list.

At the point I went to check the f-22 and B-52, only to find their .inis screwed up in similar way to what I psoted above.

This system never ceases to surprise me.

[+PureBlue]

Yes, as others said its about the Unicode nature of some of the ini files with the SF2 series. 1st gen games, when they encounter these files, try to read them (by converting?) and end up messing the file up.

The interesting thing is SF2 can read normal Ascii text files too, because if you copy any aircraft/groundobject straight from an old installation it works. It seems not all INI files need to be Unicode. But which ones? It's confusing, and if a mod doesn't work one of the first things I try, is to convert the text to UTF-8 using Notepad++.

[+Dave]

Yeah it isnt screwed up, its how the SF2 sims read it.

[Canadair]

Yeah it isnt screwed up, its how the SF2 sims read it.

 

Well for game purposes is "screwed up". It is what happens with "downgrading", as you said it is an hit and miss. Well now we know that and we can prevent the problem.

 

The interesting thing is SF2 can read normal Ascii text files too, because if you copy any aircraft/groundobject straight from an old installation it works. It seems not all INI files need to be Unicode. But which ones? It's confusing, and if a mod doesn't work one of the first things I try, is to convert the text to UTF-8 using Notepad++.

 

Well defintely there is no problem with the _data and _loadout ini

[+Dave]

Well for game purposes is "screwed up". It is what happens with "downgrading", as you said it is an hit and miss. Well now we know that and we can prevent the problem.

 

You are using the wrong terms, it isn't screwed up. It's how it works and it works fine. Downgrading it is the problem, that is the part that is "screwed up". Just don't downgrade. I am sure you can ask TK to give you another download link so you can have it where you are at.

 

Here is my take on it and I am not trying to be a prick, I am giving my opinion. Once again my opnion and not a slight against you. It makes no sense to flood the forum with "How can I downgrade this?" posts. The planes were made for SF2, so you either get SF2, or do not download them. It just makes sense. We are moving on, things are going to SF2, you all have a choice to upgrade to SF2, however the modding community is moving forward.

[Canadair]

You are using the wrong terms, it isn't screwed up. It's how it works and it works fine. Downgrading it is the problem, that is the part that is "screwed up". Just don't downgrade. I am sure you can ask TK to give you another download link so you can have it where you are at.

 

Here is my take on it and I am not trying to be a prick, I am giving my opinion. Once again my opnion and not a slight against you. It makes no sense to flood the forum with "How can I downgrade this?" posts. The planes were made for SF2, so you either get SF2, or do not download them. It just makes sense. We are moving on, things are going to SF2, you all have a choice to upgrade to SF2, however the modding community is moving forward.

 

 

It is more about having the time to do the whole SF2 thnig rather than the download link. Moving on is good and understandable

It works fine indeed in SF2. The downfrading is the problem, indeed.

On the other hand I am not flooding the forum with questions about downgrading. I noticed something intersting and I wanted to share the findign with the community. I noticed "the problem" and offered a solution to the community. I haven't asked any question to the community, to you, or FC. I don't think this is flooding the forum.

The planes were made for SF2, and I can download them and be thankful for them which I am A LOT, but once downloaded them I can do whatever I want with the download, including trying to make it work in Sf1, without bothering the modders that are stating that, rightly so , no support is provided for the downgrading to SF1 (even thoguh FC amde a specific t-38A TB for gen 1 on request of members; but it was FC's fancy at the moment , his right as a modder.)

 

And afterwards Id like to share my findings with the community, like I did at the times of '08 patches, in which I posted promplty each discovery I made, hopefulyl contributing to the community.

Unless the whole "downgrading" subject is a forbidden subject, in which case, again, and I mean no slight agaisnt anyone, it is understandable since this forum is yours and owner's home after all.

[+Dave]

it is understandable since this forum is yours and owner's home after all.

 

Its nots a forbidden subject, its a useless one IMHO, and it has nothing to do with you. (So quit taking it personal) I am speaking very general terms. All of TK's plane for example in SF2 will not work at all in the 1st gen series. Unicode.

 

Again my opinion, and speaking in general terms. (I think I am going to have to put that on every post so no one thinks I am picking on them) It has nothing to do with the fact that this is my home. I am speaking as a modder. You all seem to forget I was a modder long before I was a founder of this site. When I am in this forum here, 99% of the time I am speaking as a modder. Admin/Founder hat is for approving files, site issues and the regulating of douche bags. If there is no douche bags, I dont have to worry about regulating. Simple.

 

You posted your post, I gave my thoughts and vise versa. Last I checked that is what this was about.

[Canadair]

You posted your post, I gave my thoughts and vise versa.

 

 

ok!

 

BTW in case I haven't told you yet. I love the Phase V. Nothing screams more "destruction" like a B-52 enhanced

[+Dave]

ok!

 

BTW in case I haven't told you yet. I love the Phase V. Nothing screams more "destruction" like a B-52 enhanced

 

It should of been Phase VI. I screwed that up BIG TIME. But I am fixing it.

[+FastCargo]

Well, crap on a stick. I just noticed for the first time that Notepad in Vista natively saves text files in Unicode. Never noticed an option until a few minutes ago while working on something unrelated. This confirms what others have noticed.

 

The solution is to open the particular ini files and resave them in ANSI. I will add this step to the 'Converting SF2 aircraft to SF1' thread in the knowledge base.

 

FC

[Jarhead1]

yes I think too it is the unicode that causes the problem. And yes it was one of the T-38A that could not be used. Well, it was good that it has been figured out. basically it is jsut amtter of re-saving the file in ASCII.

I thoguht it was a peculiar finding I wanted to share with the community. Evenutally we will have to move tot he next gen, but many like me can't find the time at the present moment. Personally, I need a few weeks off to upgrade and update, which won't ahppen before october. In the meanwhile though playing is possible, so a little of backward compatibilty options are good. Again, one doesn't expect support from the modders in that filed and this understandable, hence one reason to share all the findings with community.

 

I have pretty much all the new SF2 planes backwards converted to Gen 1 sims, all I do is open and resave all the inis to ANSI. As for the burner cans staying lit up out of burner, mine havent as of yet, so I dont know, maybe I am lucky, lol.