flameing onion tester section

[stumpjumper 3]

dont know the best place to post this thought maybe in the mods sedction but they havent been relsed yet, if the moderators think of a better place then please move where you think it shoudl go,

 

to the testers please any screenies, youtubes what ever post t here, if you have tried you hand at missin building wiht it then please email it to me and ill be usre to get it to the other testers, lets give everybody a good showing

 

thansk again for volunteering for this

 

stump

[Bullethead 12]

Howdy Stumpy-

 

Finally got CFS3mp working and was able to take a look at this.

 

I love the visuals, especially how your whole cockpit lights up with a yellow flash when one goes off near you. The sounds are great, too. I don't know what these things really looked like but I assume you have a good idea and built them to what you know.

 

It seems, however, that the 2 things are happening that should be directly connected but aren't. Or maybe 1 is the onion and the other is something else I don't know about. Here's what happens.....

 

While I'm still a miles away from the balloon, I start being surrounded by what look like smaller, grayer Archie bursts. Some of these, but not all, spawn 2 bright yellow fireballs that arc up and fall down. Meanwhile, in the far distance around the balloon, I see a bunch of glowing green balls rising from the ground. These go up a couple thousand feet, heading in apparently random directions, and disappear, leaving no trace. Both these things continue to act separately all the way to the target. I continue to be surrounded by explosions and yellow fireballs from nowhere which are obviously aimed at me. Meanwhile there's a fountain of green balls erupting from the ground near the balloon that don't seem to be aimed at anything in particular.

 

Are both these effects the onion? Are they supposed to be tied together, so that the green balls explode into yellow fireballs? Are the green balls supposed to be aimed in my direction? Are the explosions supposed to happen so far from the balloon? Or are these 2 things totally separate weapons?

[zoomzoom 2]

Ok, I looked at the video you guys posted. Great work so far, but it doesn't seem to match this description:

 

The flaming onion was a 37 mm revolving-barrel anti-aircraft gun used by the German army during World War I, the name referring to both the gun, and especially the flares it fired. The American 'balloon-buster' ace, Frank Luke, was a prominent victim of this device, and it was mentioned in Eddie Rickenbacker's book Fighting the Flying Circus ^[1] and in many "Biggles" stories. The term could also be applied to any sort of anti-aircraft fire that used a visible tracer, appearing in reports of combat from the Battle of Taranto, for instance. ^[2]

 

The actual weapon was a Gatling type, smooth bore, short barreled automatic revolver called a 'lichtspucker' (light spitter) that was designed to fire flares at low velocity in rapid sequence across a battle area. This gun had five barrels and could launch a 37 mm artillery shell about five thousand feet (1500 m). To maximize the chance of a strike, all five rounds were discharged as rapidly as possible, giving the 'string of flaming onions' effect. Because most other rounds were fired slowly due to the nature of anti-aircraft artillery at the time, this gun's rapid rate of fire left many fliers thinking that the rounds were attached to a string and they feared being shredded by it. ^[3]

 

Because all launchers were located well behind the lines, none were captured until the last days of the war on the Western Front. Because the weapon was not designed for anti-aircraft use, it did not have purpose-designed ammunition, but the flares would have been dangerous to fabric-covered aircraft. It appears that the design of specialist ammunition took place in tandem with design of higher velocity automatic anti-aircraft weapons; which may explain why the standard heavy automatic AA gun used by the Germans in World War II was of 37 mm caliber.

 

The name "flaming onion" was also used for a number of unrelated military topics. One of these was the mythical German device that exploded in such a way that it resembled a bomber being hit, ^[4] although these also went by a variety of other names, including "scarecrows". It also included a napalm rocket used by the RAF during the Korean War, ^[5] It is also the nick-name of a military insigne that depicts an old-fashioned grenade with a lit fuse. The device is in various armies; examples include The Canadian Grenadier Guards, The Princess Louise Fusiliers, the British Royal Engineers and Royal Artillery (displayed on their "collar dogs"), and the U.S. Army's ordnance departments. ^[6

 

^{This leads me to believe that instead of erupting out of an AA shell. These should be streaking upward in a straight line, like large tracers on fire, and in multiple round bursts. Anyone else have any historical evidence to share to assist?}

 

ZZ.

Edited August 31, 2009 by zoomzoom

[RAF_Louvert 101]

zoomzoom, several of the first-hand accounts I've read do describe it as a string of fireballs all coming up in rapid succession and appearing to be tied together somehow. It was also noted at least once as resembling a Roman Candle. But stumpjumper only has so much to work with in terms of the weapons available to him in the CFS3 game engine. I'd say he's given us a pretty darned good compromise at this point considering the limitations.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[zoomzoom 2]

No question. And good work. My personal recommendation then would be to make it optional, since there are those who may like it and like to utilize it, and others, (like myself) who unless it is very accurate to history, would rather then do without. Just my 2 bits. But very creative tweaking after all....well done within the confines you are restrained to.

 

ZZ.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

zoomzoom, that's the great thing about OFF, you can pick and choose as you like. To each their own. You say potato, and I say vodka.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[stumpjumper 3]

first off zoom zoom thank you so much the info you have and other have been providing, have lead me thru severle stages, to what is out to the testers so far,, intheory there are bascially to differnt items one is the green balls, form a posting i read form one of you that they appreared more greenish when coming up at you and the model i did has 5 bbls, the other effect are the burst, with the yellowish/green balls exploding form it and flying at you, ill problem peice toghter in a few dyas after my work stink a new test mission for the tester that will place these items closertogther and see if it looks better, im also hopeuing that perhaps somebody form the off team that is a genius with effects/ wepons/and gun/ vechiles may step up and help tweck it even more,

 

but once again tahnsk to the testers and ppl like olham/ zoom zoom and others when it is finally done and relsed this will deifnlty be a COMUNITY PROJECT

thansk off to bed now

stump

[zoomzoom 2]

Its a pity you can't alter the pre-existing machine guns to be the effective tool to create this weapon. Perhaps you can't pick and choose and it would alter them all, which would be bad. But if you could alter only a few, say those around balloon emplacements, and adjust them to fire five round bursts and enlarge the projectile size to the appropriate "flaming onion" size and color, and then it may be closer to whats historically described. I'm thinking you've already thought of this and the "inherent constraints" have prevented it. Just thinking outloud.

 

ZZ.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Because the weapon was not designed for anti-aircraft use, it did nothave purpose-designed ammunition, but the flares would have beendangerous to fabric-covered aircraft.

 

If this quote is accurate, the danger from flaming onions would appear to be only from a direct hit that would put a 37mm hole in your wing (no blast or fragmentation damage) which would cause the fabric of the aircraft to catch fire and burn away. Eventually, the loss of control surface would cause the aircraft to crash. While I have faith that Stumpjumper will be able to reproduce the visual effect, I bet the limitations of the CFS3 engine will make it very difficult to accurately simulate the damage effect caused by this weapon.

 

OTOH, if Frank Luke is the only recorded victim of this weapon, than maybe just having the visual effect will be enough. It's dangerous enough up there as it is!

[sitting_duck 3]

The archie bursts are great,,,whole plane lights up.. noticed in the nite mission there is more red than you see in the daytime.

 

didnt see any "roman candle effects", not sure if they are included in the missions. Also noticed in the readme you refer to an fxtexturs file (quote: the folder titled fx textures goes in your main effects folder and it will over wirts the orignals), but there was no fxtexturs folder when i unzipped the main file...

 

the green ball flack,,,seems to me should have a little more velocity,,,acutally,,,alot more velocity,,,but then, maybe they didnt actually travel that fast to begin with. I was able to fly next to one and keep right next to it in my se5.

[Hauksbee 103]

The flaming onion was a 37 mm revolving-barrel anti-aircraft gun used by the German army during World War I, the name referring to both the gun, and especially the flares it fired.

 

Because the weapon was not designed for anti-aircraft use, it did not have purpose-designed ammunition, but the flares would have been dangerous to fabric-covered aircraft. It

ZoomZoom: I am unclear on 37mm shell/flare. Are these two different things, or, just a big 37mm tracer round? At first you refer to it as an anti-aircraft gun; later you say it was not designed for that at all. If not, then what? Was it ever used against ground targets?

[zoomzoom 2]

What I posted, was not written by myself, I got it from a historical write up on the topic. It seems they were simply 37mm flares fired from a Gatlin type gun with the intent of catching the plane afire as HPW mentioned. I don't think they were very effective as he also mentioned, and would have more of a psychological effect than anything else, barring a lucky shot as was the case with Luke. My best understanding of how they would look would be that old night time news reel of Bagdad during desert storm, in night vision, with the tracers streaming up into the sky in "strings". This seems to be more the effect that this weapon really had.

 

ZZ.

Edited September 1, 2009 by zoomzoom

[BirdDogICT 3]

Stumpjumper,

 

Ouch, those things hurt when they go off. Green fireballs are fairly easy to avoid, but brought several AI flight members down when I used the "sacrifice yourself to save me" command.

 

Nice stuff, especially the reds in night flights...hadn't noticed this so much before. I didn't include a vid...couldn't improve much on your previous posts.

 

Only one negative: I realize that the graphics may need to be tweaked a little, but I noticed white jaggies from moving my TrackIR views, something I never see otherwise (but this is the first time I've used multiplayer...the graphics anomalies may be related to that?! Not sure.)

 

The movies for the latest concept (concept 4, is it?) would be a nice touch to what you've already accomplished.

 

Thanks for letting me participate in your test!!

Edited September 2, 2009 by BirdDogICT

[GRUMPYBEAR 1]

Hi Stump

What ever happened to this?

 

Cheers

GB

[stumpjumper 3]

Hi Stump

What ever happened to this?

 

Cheers

GB

 

 

oh nto forgotten at all trsut me jsut rl got the better part of me thislast 2 weeks was actulyl planning on tidying up everything and sending in this weekend i i hope

[Check Six 2]

SJ,

 

Is this still in the "development/design" stage? I came across a pretty good article on the flaming onions in the Journal of our Society in about 1966 or so. A good introduction about the mechanics of it all, describing the actual weapon, its uses, and goes on to give some descriptions by pilots as to what it actually looked like.

 

If it's still useful to you, I would be happy to email it to you. (I think it might be too long to post here...maybe if I break it up into a few posts...).

[Check Six 2]

stumpjumper,

 

Hope you got that and it helps.

 

[stumpjumper 3]

stumpjumper,

 

Hope you got that and it helps.

 

 

 

LOL JSUT TOOK A LOOK NOTHING THERE BUT THE EMAIL NO ARTICAL :(

[Check Six 2]

LOL JSUT TOOK A LOOK NOTHING THERE BUT THE EMAIL NO ARTICAL :(

 

Sigh.

 

Sorry bout that.

 

At work now, but I'll fix it up when I get home.