OT: Hornet's sting

[gordohk 1]

Just got a few of Derek Robinson's books

 

1. Hornet's Sting (softcover: numbered and signed)

2. A Good Clean Fight (hardcover)

 

Purchased directly from the author. Just in time for the winter months as missions are cancelled due to bad weather.

Edited October 19, 2009 by gordohk

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

Gordohk,

 

If you have not already got them I would strongly recommend the other 2 books in the Hornets Sting trilogy, War Story which covers the period before Hornets Sting and Goshawk Squadron which covers the period after the Hornets Sting.

 

The reason I have written it like that is that Goshawk Squadron was the first book in the trilogy that he wrote, but it covers the last period of the trilogy.

 

Thanks

Rugbyfan1972

[gordohk 1]

Gordohk,

 

If you have not already got them I would strongly recommend the other 2 books in the Hornets Sting trilogy, War Story which covers the period before Hornets Sting and Goshawk Squadron which covers the period after the Hornets Sting.

 

The reason I have written it like that is that Goshawk Squadron was the first book in the trilogy that he wrote, but it covers the last period of the trilogy.

 

Thanks

Rugbyfan1972

 

 

Will do. I just have to find them

[Bullethead 12]

Call me a Philistine but I've never heard of Derek Robinson and wouldn't have bothered googling him until Rugbyfan replied to this thread. The OT in the subject line completely foxed me--I had no idea these were works of historical fiction on WW1 flying until then. For all I knew, Robinson's books might have been about red-headed midget belly dancers (and NO, that's not a fetish of mine ). I'd say these books are rather on-topic.

 

Anyway, now having become enlightened on the subject matter, please provide some more info to help me decide if I want to buy them. How do these works compare to the Flashman, Otto Prohaska, or Banty series?

Edited October 21, 2009 by Bullethead

[gordohk 1]

Anyway, now having become enlightened on the subject matter, please provide some more info to help me decide if I want to buy them. How do these works compare to the Flashman, Otto Prohaska, or Banty series?

 

Well I just got War Story and am starting there. I can't speak of Prohaska or Banty, and I have not come across anything like Flashman. Check out amazon for reviews. The WWI books are War Story, Hornet's Sting, Goshawk Squdron. WWII: A Piece of Cake, A Good Clean Fight. I have A Piece of Cake on dvd and really enjoyed it, which prompted me to check out the rest of Robinson's works. The two books I bought were directly from the author and signed. Most are out of print but used copies can be acquired on Amazon paperbacks and hardcover (I prefer hardcover). Hope this helps

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

Well I just got War Story and am starting there. I can't speak of Prohaska or Banty, and I have not come across anything like Flashman. Check out amazon for reviews. The WWI books are War Story, Hornet's Sting, Goshawk Squdron. WWII: A Piece of Cake, A Good Clean Fight. I have A Piece of Cake on dvd and really enjoyed it, which prompted me to check out the rest of Robinson's works. The two books I bought were directly from the author and signed. Most are out of print but used copies can be acquired on Amazon paperbacks and hardcover (I prefer hardcover). Hope this helps

 

I've only read the Goshawk Squadron. I'd like to read Robinson's others, but they're hard to find and/or very expensive. I'll get them one day, though, I'm sure.

 

By the "Banty" series I assume you're talking about the Bandy Papers by Donald Jack. That is a fantastic series and I would highly recommend them to anyone. The writing is superb. There are nine books in the series in all. I actually talked my wife into reading them, and by halfway through the first book she was hooked. If you love good puns (and most puns aren't good puns, but Jack manages far more than his share) you'll love the writing. There's also an incredible flow and development of the character, from his start as a simple reverend's son, to a flying ace, to whatever it is that Bandy is. He's just Bandy.

 

The Goshawk Squadron is far darker. There is a definite underlying darkness in the Bandy Papers, much like with Vonnegut, but Robinson flat out hits you over the head with it. I'd compare it in tone to Catch 22, although with perhaps less humour.

 

For anynone looking for a good read, I just finished reading one of the better novels I've read in a long time. Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden tells the tale of a pair of northern Cree who serve as snipers for the Canadian army. Be warned that it is not a cheerful book, and it's very graphic at times. It is, however, an oddly positive book, but only if you're willing to do a bit of thinking.

 

I haven't read any of the Flashman books, but Bandy fans seem to like them, so I think I'll put them on the list.

 

Cheers.

[Bullethead 12]

The Goshawk Squadron is far darker. There is a definite underlying darkness in the Bandy Papers, much like with Vonnegut, but Robinson flat out hits you over the head with it. I'd compare it in tone to Catch 22, although with perhaps less humour.

 

OK, I'm sold.

 

Let's have a show of hands... Who thinks Catch 22 was:

 

a) a comedy.

b) a tragi-comedy.

c) an accurate portrayal of what really happens behind the scenes in war, with all humor being of the gallows variety.

 

I ask this because in my little war, my 1st sergeant went to prison for absconding with the regimental paychest just before our 1st payday and my supply sergeant when to prison for selling all our replacement boots to REMFs. Plus, I went to law school (oh, the irony) on the money I made from various blackmarket activities in the month between going back to the rear after the ceasefire and flying home.

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

OK, I'm sold.

 

Let's have a show of hands... Who thinks Catch 22 was:

 

a) a comedy.

b) a tragi-comedy.

c) an accurate portrayal of what really happens behind the scenes in war, with all humor being of the gallows variety.

 

I ask this because in my little war, my 1st sergeant went to prison for absconding with the regimental paychest just before our 1st payday and my supply sergeant when to prison for selling all our replacement boots to REMFs. Plus, I went to law school (oh, the irony) on the money I made from various blackmarket activities in the month between going back to the rear after the ceasefire and flying home.

 

I'd be interested to read the prequels to The Goshawk Squadron to see what gets the main character, Woolley, to the point he's at in that book. For those who haven't read it, a central theme is that chivalry in the sky is a myth and the whole point is to defeat the enemy by enemy by any means possible. Interestingly, Raymond Collishaw, who I personally admire a lot, and who was generally regarded as a thoroughly decent, easy-going chap, expressed similar sentiments in his memoirs, about the absurdity of the notion of "knights of the sky" that was developed mainly by the British press. Collishaw describes regularly getting to within little more than a plane length before putting a burst in the other fellow's back, preferably without ever being seen.

 

If anyone wants to read further on this sort of mythology, I can recommend Christopher Duffy's "Through German Eyes". It's about the ground war, but it goes to the same cultural mythology. It mainly focusses on the Somme in 1916 and the persistence of the notion of "sportsmanship" that the British carried onto the battlefield, and their assessment of themselves as "lions led by donkeys", which they believed the Germans shared. To the contrary, he describes accounts of British prisoners attempting to shake hands with their captors and receiving a swift kick between the legs in response.

 

I've never been in the military, Bullethead, so I really can't say where Catch 22 falls in relation to reality. I've seen a lot of human stupidity, though, and I can well imagine that the more extreme and absurd the circumstances, and the more arbitrarily rigid the maintenance of that absurdity, the more darkly humourous the situation would seem, from the outside at least.

 

So, I guess my answer to your question is: d) all of the above.

 

The Bandy books start with the premise of absurdity, and they're more personal from the main character's point of view. They're really a different type of book, despite the underlying darkness that develops in the character as the series progresses, they're primarily about humour and are very cleverly written. I'd highly recommend them, if you can find them.

 

And not to harp on it, but Three Day Road by Joseph Boyden is a fantastic book. There's no humour there, but the book definitely leaves something behind.

 

Cheers.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Schnitzel von Krumm

[JimAttrill 24]

I have War Story and Goshawk Squadron. War story is a much better book from all aspects. I re-read it about once a year. Very, very well written. The characters in Goshawk squadron are 2-dimensional and very flat ie. they are the same people at the end of the book as they are at the beginning. As the characters are all different, the use of prequel and sequel is misleading.

 

(But the pilot who loses his memory in War Story comes back as the squadron adjutant in A Piece of Cake 20 years later).

 

I reckon Catch-22 is a tragi-comedy, or a black comedy as it is certainly funny in places and any ex-serviceman in war and peace will recognise the characters.

I hear the Italians in Afghanistan are being accused of bribing the Taliban to not shoot them. They seem upset about this.