Ecuadorian Air Force HAL Dhruv crashes

[+ghostrider883 526]

Video here:

 

Photos here:

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/10/high-rez-photo-of-crashed-dhruv.html

 

The two Ecuadorian Air Force helicopter pilots Luis Armas and Ivan Abril who walked away almost unscathed from the dramatic crash of their Dhruv helicopter have been treated for minor injuries, and are to be discharged in a few days from a military hospital in Quito. They had a closer call than most do in helicopter accidents of this kind.

[JediMaster 451]

I know the Dhruv is a very recent design, so its crew crash safety features should be very modern and capable...as this proved. I'll bet in an old Huey or Aerospatiale the headline would've read "both crew killed".

[+ghostrider883 526]

Since 2004, Dhruv has witnessed 2 crashes and 2 hard landings with only one casualty. The casualty was during aero India this year. A Dhruv from IAF Sarang display team crashed. While trying to pull up after a loop, the Sarang chopper plowed into the ground. It was at the extremes of any design for crashworthiness. The impact was nose first. Unfortunately the pilot was killed but the co-pilot survived with severe spinal injuries. But importantly there was no fire and the fuel cells stayed intact. Better still, the passenger/cargo space was unscathed. Anyone properly strapped inside would have survived, albeit with injuries.

 

Meanwhile...

Jammu, October 30, 2009

 

An IAF Mi-17 helicopter crashed into Chenab river near Assar in Doda district of Jammu and Kashmir on Friday. At least one person died in the crash.

 

It was still not clear how many people were there on board the air force helicopter, but one body was already recovered while rescue operation was on jointly by the army and the local police in search of other personnel on the aircraft.

 

The incident took place as an air force exercise in Jammu went awry. The exercise was being conducted using two MI-17 helicopters.

 

The crashed chopper was reportedly flying low over the river when it got caught in a cable wire of a bridge. It crashed into Baglihar dam reservoir and sunk.

Edited October 30, 2009 by ghostrider883

[Abhi 3]

HAL team cleared the chopper and it was found out that the crash was due to pilot error.

the report says the choppers were flying in formation ,at 13000 ft the pilot turned it at 80 degrees instead of 30 which caused the aircraft to lose control.

 

in my opinion the design is very good i ve seen myself the chopper during various air shows.

 

The crashed chopper was reportedly flying low over the river when it got caught in a cable wire of a bridge. It crashed into Baglihar dam reservoir and sunk./quote]

 

these are one of the most common incidents in IAF,when i was in pathankot i heard many cases when mi-35's got entangled in cables.

i think IAF needs CAWS(Cable approach warning systems).

[+Prowler1111 14]

Well, the contract with the FAE (Ecuadorian Air Force) is being scrutinized by media and governmental entities due to the fact it was rejected TWICE by the FAE, since the model lacked all the features looked for them, and severe breaches in the contract (used engines,false information regarding real engine use parameters), the total number of aircraft purchased were 7 (a 50 Million deal) but only 5 were delivered and the other 2 (due in December) are NOT going to be accepted (in the initial batch is included a presidential version, which happens to be the worst offender and most unreliable of them all. The Dhruv fleet is grounded until the investigation team releases their findings, and executing the guarantees between the contract are being pondered by the FAE, also, fingers are pointed towards current FAE Commander in Chief, who signed (disqualifying the rejecting inform handled by the technical dept)and accepted the aircraft as they are.Returning the aircraft to HAL and getting the money back is one of the most likely actions to happen.Former FAE commander (who rejected this purchase before leaving office)said in local media:

"They have numerous problems with the engines and rotors,in India, they are forbid to fly with high ranking authorities, their Civil Aviation web page clearly says that they are useless at high altitudes.It´s a prototype , we are the only ones around the world to acquire them, we were the guinea pigs"

 

http://www.eluniverso.com/2009/10/29/1/1355/jorge-gabela-bueno-ni-india-quiere-esos-helicopteros.html?p=1355A&m=1548 <----in spanish

[+ghostrider883 526]

May be the Ecuadoria n Air Chief should get his facts right. The Dhruv is in full fledged service with the Indian Army Aviation Corps, Air FOrce, Navy & Coast Guard. Even the IAF's helo "Sarang" display team perform stupendous maneuvers on their Dhruvs. Indian terrain is among the harshest possible, from the high altitudes of himalayas to the deserts of Rajashtan....the Dhruv has proved itself in every terrain....A Sarang Dhruv was involved in airlifting of dead bodies of a state Chief minister, his guard and his flight crew after their Bell 409 crashed in rough weather on a hill top in thick jungles.

 

An Army Dhruv was recently involved in a dramatic rescue to climbers stuck in one of the himalayan peaks. Just because of one crash, the FAE is out to nail the Dhruv!!!!

Dhruv Crash : Cyclic Limit Theory

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/Su3nRX2J7rI/AAAAAAAAIuo/83AQDPxXHBc/s1600-h/111.jpg

 

The ALH Dhruv (No. FAE-604) that conducted a dramatic rescue off the coast of Salinas on October 2, is the same one that crashed 25 days later, on October 27 :

link

Edited November 2, 2009 by ghostrider883

[Atreides 144]

Good point there Ghost.

[Silverbolt 104]

Just need to rememeber most of south america Pilots fly few, if compared with India, USA, or elsewhere richier than us

[+Prowler1111 14]

The ALH Dhruv (No. FAE-604) that conducted a dramatic rescue off the coast of Salinas on October 2, is the same one that crashed 25 days later, on October 27 :

 

Tell them to get their facts straight as well, that´s a TRAINING pic,so far NO fae Dhruv has been involved in any real rescue or action btw, i happen to live in Ecuador currently, so i´m really aware of what´s happening, and let me tell you, local press and some persons involved are talking about BRIBES to get this contract going, so far, Chile said it will go towards Eurocopter Cougars and dismiss HAL´s offer, and FAE most likely will send the choppers back and ask for a refund, all this between contract´s clause.

Prowler

[+ghostrider883 526]

The point is crucification of the Dhruv is not justified just because of one crash and that too because of pilot error. The fact that the pilots walked away with relatively minor injuries goes on to prove the robustness of the airframe.

 

On 13 September 09 the Delhi-based Western Air Command was requested for an air evacuation of 19 members of an Army Mountaineering Expedition to Pin Parbati Pass, who were stranded at a height of 14,600 feet in the treacherous glaciated terrain in the higher hills of Himachal Pradesh.

 

Due to incessant rains, heavy snowfall and bad weather meant the expedition members were stranded for the five days.

 

The situation demanded an immediate air rescue as the team had been out of rations and were unable to either proceed or return. An Advanced Light Helicopter (Dhruv) captained by Wg Cdr Nikhil Naidu with co-pilot Wg Cdr UKS Bhaduria was pressed into service for the air rescue mission.

Though the degree of difficulty of the mission was very high, the experienced IAF pilots decided to carry out the rescue by means of conducting a low hover pickups of the stranded Army personnel.

 

A total of 12 personnel were rescued by the single ALH in three sorties and the rest seven personnel were rescued by the Army Aviation Cheetah helicopters.

 

The mission carried out by the IAF helicopter was the first ever recorded rescue mission by the ALH (Dhruv) at such high altitudes.

[Abhi 3]

hey prowler dont you know that IAF pilots made a record of highest landing in the world with the dhruv.

 

 

it was a incident caused by pilot error dont you get it.

don't present pointless reasons,tommrow you will do pugachevs cobra with an 777 and when it will crash you will ask boeing for refund.every aircraft has limitations and if you will do crazy things then even god will not save you.

 

you are blaming the design,well when you commit an error at 13000 ft and you are still alive ...

Edited November 3, 2009 by satish

[Atreides 144]

Well, one crash leading them to say that the chopper is flawed seems kind of scapegoat like. As to bribes I wouldn't be suprised but then there's always flatulent "talk" of bribes with quite a few military deals. Bet some of the members here who work in the defence industry would agree. The Dhruv has proved itself with the IAF for a while now and the fact that the pilots walked away does credit to the chopper.

[+Prowler1111 14]

1st all, I happen to live in Ecuador, 2nd i do read the local newspapers, and 3rd human error is being ruled out as more info coming from the pilots is surfacing, by the way, i couldnt care LESS about HAL, FAE or anything related to that, i´m just pointing out the facts due to findings in current FAE fleet and their purchase, this is HOT news here, and it has been on TV, newspapers, radio since the accident.Like i said, they didn´t want the chopper, they rejected it TWICE and was bought, disregarding all the objections, by the FAE commander who recommended it to the defense minister.Now that the **it has hit the fan,(and the fact that the presidential version is one of the worst offenders reliability wise)all the dirty laundry is surfacing, and the choppers most likely will be returned, the fleet is grounded and the presidential one will NOT be used even if the investigations clear the aircraft.The fact both pilots walked away from it, says a LOT about their training, readiness during critical situations and a long etc.The future for the other 2 that are pending is grim, as local press revealed plans to send the aircraft back,but one of the FAE generals stated that "they will not accept any other aircraft from the manufacturer".What will most likely happen is returning the aircraft and stick to the original plan which was buying BK117, and 1 cougar for presidential use.

 

Prowler

[+ghostrider883 526]

1st all, I happen to live in Ecuador, 2nd i do read the local newspapers, and 3rd human error is being ruled out as more info coming from the pilots is surfacing, by the way, i couldnt care LESS about HAL, FAE or anything related to that, i´m just pointing out the facts due to findings in current FAE fleet and their purchase, this is HOT news here, and it has been on TV, newspapers, radio since the accident.Like i said, they didn´t want the chopper, they rejected it TWICE and was bought, disregarding all the objections, by the FAE commander who recommended it to the defense minister.

 

HAL hasn't reacted officially yet, They are waiting for the crash investigations to be completed. I simply can't understand the hysteria in Ecuador about this. After such crashes there is always "i told you it was a piece of crap" comments by "expert" generals always comes up. What if that particular general who was favouring another helo and because of the Dhruv purchase he didn't get his cut? The Dhruv is in service with the Indian armed forces for a reason.....and it certainly isn't because some generals were bribed or it failed in tests conducted by the Indian forces. IF the Dhruv had major faults...HAL & IAF would not be developing this:

 

 

The fact both pilots walked away from it, says a LOT about their training, readiness during critical situations and a long etc.

 

Could be. But have you seen the thud with which the Dhruv crashed? It was out of control when it crashed....traning?? I don''t think so. The fuel tanks didn't explode....the impact should have caused severe injuries to the pilots. but did it? I am not able to find pictures of the Sarang Dhruv that crashed in Bangalore...no one could have believed that one of the pilots survived that crash..it was in such a bad shape....like in Ecuador's crash, that Sarang Dhruv was performing at an air show.

 

EDIT :pics of crashed Saran Dhruv during Aero India 07

Edited November 4, 2009 by ghostrider883

[Abhi 3]

HAL hasn't reacted officially yet, They are waiting for the crash investigations to be completed. I simply can't understand the hysteria in Ecuador about this. After such crashes there is always "i told you it was a piece of crap" comments by "expert" generals always comes up. What if that particular general who was favouring another helo and because of the Dhruv purchase he didn't get his cut? The Dhruv is in service with the Indian armed forces for a reason.....and it certainly isn't because some generals were bribed or it failed in tests conducted by the Indian forces. IF the Dhruv had major faults...HAL & IAF would not be developing this:/quote]

 

 

i agre with ghost completely.if for example if tomorrow an british blachawk crashes will they create such a f****ing mess like this.

 

turkey, a country which prefers US made defense products ordered 3 dhruvs and will order more.

currently 80 are in service and 235 on order.if it is a faulty design(which it is certainly not) then why the army and IAF are buying it?

 

may be this is an attempt by rivals to taints dhruvs image.

[JediMaster 451]

I must admit I have NEVER seen a claim before that the reason pilots walked away from a helo crash uninjured was their training. Unless it's an engine-out failure requiring auto-rotation, most helo crash survival is due more to the crashworthiness of the helo's cabin and its seat construction. If it was poor, the pilots would die. Period.

Now the important point is if someone says something is "poor", they don't mean EVERY aspect must be poor. To be a poor helo doesn't mean it must have poor engines, a poor transmission, a poor cockpit, etc etc etc. Only one of those can be bad and it can ruin someone's perception. Don't ask me how many times I've heard someone tell me a PC is "totally broken" when all that's wrong is they can't get IE to run!!

So you could have a problem with engine reliability, transmission, avionics, etc and still be very strong and survivable in a crash.

[+ghostrider883 526]

'Dhruvs Best In Their Class, No Question Of Returning Them' - Ecuador's Defence Minister

 

While providing testimony to an Assembly Committee on International Affairs analysing the Dhruv helicopter crash of October 27, Ecuador's Defence Minister Javier Ponce yesterday called the Dhruv the best choice for the country's air force, and ruled out returning the remaining helicopters to India as a consequence of the accident.

 

"There is no reason to return the machines. There was a very clear decision that this was the best choice and the best offer. The helicopters will be back to full operational status after Accident Investigation Board delivers its report on November 26," he said.

[+ghostrider883 526]

Pilot error caused Dhruv crash in Ecuador: Probe

 

In a big relief to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, pilot error was found to have caused the crash of the India [ Images ]-made Advance Light Helicopter 'Dhruv' in Ecuador in October, a probe conducted in the United States and India into the mishap has revealed.

 

The crash, during a military parade on October 28 in the South American country, injuring two pilots, was considered a major setback to India's efforts to market its indigenous helicopters overseas.

 

The Ecuadorian Air Force, which bought five Dhruvs from the Bangalore-headquartered HAL, had grounded the entire fleet till the probe was completed.

 

However, the probe findings have come as a big relief for HAL, which has identified South America as one of the key export markets for Dhruv. The probe revealed that 'over-manoeuvre of the pilot' led to the crash.

 

"The pilot had taken a very deep left turn. Because he took the left turn, he went down in height and didn't have sufficient time to recover and hit the ground," a senior HAL official said.

 

An Ecuadorian investigation team was at HAL last week, armed with an independent probe -- conducted with the help of the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder -- that it had carried out in Washington.

 

"They had gone to the US and conducted a neutral investigation there. They didn't tell us the results. They came here and we did the probe. Then they (Ecuadorean team) told us whatever they did in Washington exactly matches the results that they got here," the official said.

 

HAL can't make the probe results public because it has a non-disclosure agreement with the Ecuadorian Air Force, he said.