itifonhom 6 Posted January 9, 2010 It is mentioned as a "Taube" but as far as I know it isn´t. I´m no expert though. The photos are from my hometown, Thessaloniki, Greece, at February 1916. At the time, a strong French expeditionary force was in the city and advancing northwards. The plane was set at show in front of the "White Tower", the city´s major landmark, from upon the second photo was shot. I suppose the first is from the "crash" or land site. Any tips on which type of aircraft is and maybe any other info on this incident? Which unit came from for example? Thanks for any tips, Anastasios. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandbagger 1 Posted January 9, 2010 The Taube was an aircraft in its own right, but many in the early period of WW1 called other aircraft types 'Taubes'. Unless I'm mistaken this looks like an Aviatik, but I'm sure someone will correct me if not, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themightysrc 5 Posted January 9, 2010 I suspect Sandbagger's got it in one. If that's not an Aviatik, then I'm sending back my Hun kite spotter's badge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OvS 8 Posted January 9, 2010 The Taube was an aircraft in its own right, but many in the early period of WW1 called other aircraft types 'Taubes'. Unless I'm mistaken this looks like an Aviatik, but I'm sure someone will correct me if not, Yes, it look like an Aviatik. Probably a B.1, which had no MG and was a very early war Recce plane. It had a seaplane version, but was not used for very long. The Rumpler and Albatros 2-seaters were far superior. OvS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manuc 0 Posted January 9, 2010 Is it an early D.F.W. C-Type? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted January 10, 2010 . Hate to have to disagree with all you folks but it is in fact a very early version of the Albatros C-1, (sans guns). The tail feathers, wing bay configuration, and radiator vent panels on the sides of the fuselage are the telling items. The Aviatik B models, while having similar lines and vents, had much more rounded rudders and elevators, lighter wing struts, and slightly longer fuselages. Since a picture is worth a 1000 words, here is a photo of an Alb C-1, courtesy of W.M. Lamberton's "Reconnaissance & Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War", (apologies for the low quality scan). This is likely a slightly later model than that shown in iti's photo as the engine has the vertical exhaust stack, or it's possible that the one above had the exhaust knocked off or removed as it is obviously a wreck, (which is also why the wings looks like they have a lot of dihedral due to the way the kite is propped up on those stands). And here is an Aviatik B.1. It's close, but it's not the plane seen in itifonhom's photos. (just found the above picture of the Aviatik in my files so I updated my previous post) . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullethead 12 Posted January 10, 2010 Hate to have to disagree with all you folks but it is in fact a very early version of the Albatros C-1 I agree it's an early Albatros, but my money's on it being an Albatros B.I(Ph) Series 24. The (Ph) means it was built by the Austro-Hungarian Phönix company and the Series 24 means it was the 2nd series they built. The Series 23 had weaker interplane struts and the exhuast arrangement was different. Albatros B.Is built by other Austro-Hungarian companies had the rounded tail surfaces of the Aviatiks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullethead 12 Posted January 10, 2010 Arrgghhhhh.... I'm braindead. I forgot the other pic. This one has a different wing but shows the engine arrangements better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itifonhom 6 Posted January 10, 2010 Wow, I´m impressed!! You guys rock! Apart from the aircrafts in OFF, my knowledge base of WWI aircrafts is really limited, but you got it in you. Thanks for all the tips and hints, I really appreciate it. An early Albatros B.I in Reccon role on a mountainous environment at the Balkan Front. Quite interesting. Thanks again people, I love this community! Anastasios. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted January 10, 2010 . BH, you may be right Sir and I considered the Alb B.1 series myself. However, itifonhom's plane appears to have the exact same venting and plumbing on the starboard side as the C-1, and I have never seen a photo of an Alb B.1 with that precise feature. Also, the B.1 has a nearly vertical rear edge on the rudder, (in relationship to the fore-to-aft centerline of the fuselage), whereas the C-1 is much more swept back, (much closer to that seen on the plane in question). There were of course a lot of minor variations within the same modle by the same manufacturer based on parts availability and in-production alterations, (as well as field modifications made by the squadrons and jastas themselves), but I am still sticking with my answer. And Iti, we're always happy to share, (and show off), what info we have gleaned over the years. Just be sure to keep an open mind as the answers to such questions can change over the course of time. I know I'm often learning about things I thought I already knew the answers to. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gous 0 Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks again people, I love this community! Anastasios. Kai pou sai akoma Anastasie... *Ahem* sorry, some Greek babbling... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itifonhom 6 Posted January 10, 2010 Hey Gous! Nice to read some Greek here! Wouldn´t expect it at all. And from someone with a DK badge as his photo and a Frenchie from Monty Pythons and the Holly Grail as his avatar, that´s another surprise indeed. I´m sure I´m stuck here for ever now and believe me, it´s good to know! Wrees oi fwto apo tin 8essaloniki, etsi? Kai malista prin apo tin purkagia tou 1917! (a bit more greek babbling :-) please forgive us! ) Anastasios Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gous 0 Posted January 10, 2010 Well yeah, there aren't many punk rock listeners / Monty python obssesed / Greek / WWI aviation fans out there. And believe me, I am the one who is unfortunate to be stuck in Greece and not you....! Kalispera kai kales ptiseis.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itifonhom 6 Posted January 10, 2010 Hey Gous, please believe me, I mean it from heart, that´s EXACTLY the reason I left!!! Keep up the faith, euxaristw, episis...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullethead 12 Posted January 11, 2010 I am still sticking with my answer. I don't blame you--it's a good one. It's either a German-made Alb C.I or a Phönix-made B.I series 24. There seem to be no other possible answers. And I don't think it's possible to tell on looks alone, given the differences in my 2 pics which were both Series 24. The main thing I would argue is that when the KuK built German planes under license, they usually kept the designation of the original type they built and then changed the series number. For instance, the KuK built "Albatros D.III"s until the end of the war, despte the later series haviing little in common with the early-1917 prototype. So, I"m thinking we have to look at when and where planes served. This plane came down on the Salonika Front in early 1916. At that time, there weren't many Germans in the area IIRC, but instead Bulgars and KuK. Given the crosses, the plane was probably German or KuK, so the odds I think favor KuK. According to Grosz, Haddow, and Schiemer, the KuK never owned a single Albatros C.I, whether imported or home-built. Thus, if the machine is a C.I, then it's German. OTOH, if it's KuK, then it's a B.I(Ph) series 24. There really seems to have been very little difference between them. And I think the odds favor KuK. But we'll probably never know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted January 11, 2010 . BH, another well-reasoned and sound argument, (as we have come to expect from you Sir), but for one point. To say there weren't many Germans in the area at that time is a bit of an understatement. I mean, the Bulgarian forces had been reinforced in January and February of 1916 by the German XI Army, (comprised of the 6th Reserve Corps' 101st and 103rd Divisions), as well as the Alpine Corps, and that sounds like quite a few Germans to me. Also, the lion's share of the Bulgarian Air Force was equipped with German aircraft which, IMHO, increases the odds further of the plane in question being a German-built, German-marked Albatros C-1. However, as you say, there is very little difference between the two and there are enough variables that we may indeed never know. I might have to try and locate the English translation of Haupt Heydemarck’s "War Flying in Macedonia" to see if there is some light it can shed on this debate. (but it is a German-built C-1) . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
