AI Issue that needs a fix.

[+Spectre_USA]

Lets do the math.

 

Average number of guns on a typical US fighter? 1.

 

Number of guns on a Zeus? 4.

 

Sure, one's a gatling with a higher rate of fire, but of a slightly lower caliber. And the speed difference is approaching

infinity for odds of a hit.

 

So why do they do it?

 

I like that the wingmen use a lot less baby-sitting with recent patches, but this one niggles me no end.

 

Does anyone know of a way to tell the AI, "GroundGuns=Don'tFreakingDoIt!"?

[+ST0RM]

Lets do the math.

 

Average number of guns on a typical US fighter? 1.

 

Number of guns on a Zeus? 4.

 

Sure, one's a gatling with a higher rate of fire, but of a slightly lower caliber. And the speed difference is approaching

infinity for odds of a hit.

 

So why do they do it?

 

I like that the wingmen use a lot less baby-sitting with recent patches, but this one niggles me no end.

 

Does anyone know of a way to tell the AI, "GroundGuns=Don'tFreakingDoIt!"?

 

I'd like for them to stop dropping their entire load of bombs on the first target. Strikes are ok, but for CAS or SEAD, they are useless after one pass and then go to guns as you've mentioned to pick up ay additional targets.

 

-S

[smokey799]

Does anyone know of a way to tell the AI, "GroundGuns=Don'tFreakingDoIt!"?

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything or it would have come out my nose!

That's great Spectre!

 

I'd like for them to stop dropping their entire load of bombs on the first target. Strikes are ok, but for CAS or SEAD, they are useless after one pass and then go to guns as you've mentioned to pick up ay additional targets.

Hey Storm....If you're running the first gen strikefighters take a peek in the aircraftobject.ini....you can adjust the number of rounds expended depending

on mission (I think)...

 

Later.

[Lt. James Cater]

In WOV Gold there's no worry about the guns not being agressive.

 

Also in WOV Gold, the loadout for my wingmen (flying A-1s) is a mix of CBUs and Napalm. They always unload the Napalm first, CBUs next, then go to guns.

 

En masse, that's a whole lot of hurt going down on Charlie!

[+Spectre_USA]

I just had a Strike Hornet (F/A-18C) with a pair of SideArms, and a pair of Hellfires make a guns run from 15 miles out.

 

I've seen SideArm kills by wingies, so why this guy went wonky, I may never know.

 

I just hate losing squaddies, but to this kind of stupidity, really frosts my glass...

[+Gocad]

Missiles are always tricky. It seems to me that the order of preference for the AI when it comes to Air to Mud work is: bombs > guns > ARMs > AGM. And it seems that they have no clue what EOGB/LGBs are.

 

Gunning down AAA sites was far more common in the 60s/70s than it is today, and back then the US aircraft often more than 1 gun. Even with TK slowly creeping towards the present the AI is probably still designed with air operations in 60s in mind. And I doubt he will change that, after all the focus of most simulations is on the flashy air-to-air combat and not the tedious ground support role.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Gocad

[+kreelin]

I give them some rocket pods to do the job

[UnknownPilot]

after all the focus of most simulations is on the flashy air-to-air combat and not the tedious ground support role.

 

 

While A2A is definitely "sexy", mud moving, especially in jets with massive amounts of ordnance (and guided munitions and huge guns) is anything but "tedious". It's really what air-power is all about, the reason for it's very existance.

 

Plus, downing a MiG with an A-4, or A-7, or a Sukhoi with an A-10 after blowing some strategic asset of theirs to kingdom come is just sublime.

[+Spectre_USA]

Agreed, exceedingly sublime!

 

And I have always held to the adage that Fighter Pilots make movies, mud-movers make history!

 

Some good ideas and insights here. Maybe I will go more with rockets or summat, and not what I would take for myself.

 

Some dudes rocket and gun skills are atrocious, I hasten to add, thus the reason for wanting them to tote PGMs. But if the

aren't going to fire them, they may as well be rocks.

 

Maybe tied to skill level, I may have to look into that aspect...

[+Gocad]

I guess it's fair to say that most AI pilots suffer from the Stormtrooper syndrome.

[Lt. James Cater]

Agreed, exceedingly sublime!

 

And I have always held to the adage that Fighter Pilots make movies, mud-movers make history!

 

Some good ideas and insights here. Maybe I will go more with rockets or summat, and not what I would take for myself.

 

Some dudes rocket and gun skills are atrocious, I hasten to add, thus the reason for wanting them to tote PGMs. But if the

aren't going to fire them, they may as well be rocks.

 

Maybe tied to skill level, I may have to look into that aspect...

 

Trust me on this one...

 

Give them CBUs and Napalm then watch them go to work.

[+gregoryp]

I'd like for them to stop dropping their entire load of bombs on the first target. Strikes are ok, but for CAS or SEAD, they are useless after one pass and then go to guns as you've mentioned to pick up ay additional targets.

 

-S

 

Add this to the aircraft's _data.ini and adjust as needed to set how your AI bombs things on the ground.

 

[LevelBombAI]

ReleaseCount=12

ReleaseInterval=0.14

 

[DiveBombAI]

ReleaseCount=4

ReleaseInterval=0.14

 

[RocketAttackAI]

ReleaseCount=16

ReleaseInterval=0.2

 

[strafeAI]

ReleaseInterval=1

[MiG Master]

Add this to the aircraft's _data.ini and adjust as needed to set how your AI bombs things on the ground.

 

[LevelBombAI]

ReleaseCount=12

ReleaseInterval=0.14

 

[DiveBombAI]

ReleaseCount=4

ReleaseInterval=0.14

 

[RocketAttackAI]

ReleaseCount=16

ReleaseInterval=0.2

 

[strafeAI]

ReleaseInterval=1

 

I'll give those a try. I'm flying a CF-18 campaign in SF2E NF4+ and my wingmen are making me dread A2G missions. On CAS missions my wingmen will dump all 6 of their Rockeyes in one fell swoop and won't hit ANYTHING unless they go strafe it. The first time one of my wingmen plinked a tank with a bomb was when I loaded up the second element with with 12 Mk.82s, and that was only after one of them rippled all 12 bombs in one attack run! They ignore the HARMs I hang on them unless its a SEAD mission, which is a problem when Ivan brings SA-8s, ZSUs, and 2S6s to the party.

[+Spectre_USA]

Oh, yeah!

 

There's news I can use.

 

Will have to give that a go. Cheers, GregoryP.

 

Now if I combine that with the L-T's CBU/nape suggestion, I may just get some Bad-A wingies

instead of the Cannon Fodder I have been flying with.

 

`Preciate the insights, I just wish my 12 hour day at work was over now...

 

[+gregoryp]

I'll give those a try. I'm flying a CF-18 campaign in SF2E NF4+ and my wingmen are making me dread A2G missions. On CAS missions my wingmen will dump all 6 of their Rockeyes in one fell swoop and won't hit ANYTHING unless they go strafe it. The first time one of my wingmen plinked a tank with a bomb was when I loaded up the second element with with 12 Mk.82s, and that was only after one of them rippled all 12 bombs in one attack run! They ignore the HARMs I hang on them unless its a SEAD mission, which is a problem when Ivan brings SA-8s, ZSUs, and 2S6s to the party.

 

If you can, bring up the HUD in Debug mode. Tell your wingmen to attack and then use F6 to jump to fly with your wing man. Watch the HUD data and see which mode the AI is using to drop the bomb. You can then use

 

AimPitchOffset=1

 

To help them get the bomb/shoot on target depending on the AI mode. If they always bomb past the target, use a negative number -1, -2, -3 ..... and a positive number 1, 2, 3 if the bomb hits in front of the target.

 

[DiveBombAI]

AimPitchOffset=1

 

[RocketAttackAI]

AimPitchOffset=0

 

[strafeAI]

AimPitchOffset=1

 

You can also set the angle the AI bombs at and the altitude they climb to for their second pass shown here

 

http://forum.combatace.com/topic/51538-sf2-finally-got-the-ai-to-dive-bomb-properly/

 

 

 

 

[MiG Master]

If you can, bring up the HUD in Debug mode. Tell your wingmen to attack and then use F6 to jump to fly with your wing man. Watch the HUD data and see which mode the AI is using to drop the bomb. You can then use

 

AimPitchOffset=1

 

To help them get the bomb/shoot on target depending on the AI mode. If they always bomb past the target, use a negative number -1, -2, -3 ..... and a positive number 1, 2, 3 if the bomb hits in front of the target.

 

[DiveBombAI]

AimPitchOffset=1

 

[RocketAttackAI]

AimPitchOffset=0

 

[strafeAI]

AimPitchOffset=1

 

You can also set the angle the AI bombs at and the altitude they climb to for their second pass shown here

 

http://forum.combata...-bomb-properly/

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips. I've tested the way you've shown me. So far into my testing, it looks like the AI is accurate against stationary targets, so I left the offset alone. I also got it to use one bomb at a time during level bombing. However, I can't seem to get the AI to limit how many bombs it drops in a dive, no matter what values I enter for ReleaseCount- it will ripple them all. I've also tried extending the ReleaseInterval value for longer intervals between bomb releases, but the AI will instead try to get as many bombs released as it can before pulling out, while rippling them at the set interval. I haven't tweaked any of the other DiveBombAI values like PullOutRange, so I don't know if they'll have any effect.

[+gregoryp]

Thanks for the tips. I've tested the way you've shown me. So far into my testing, it looks like the AI is accurate against stationary targets, so I left the offset alone. I also got it to use one bomb at a time during level bombing. However, I can't seem to get the AI to limit how many bombs it drops in a dive, no matter what values I enter for ReleaseCount- it will ripple them all. I've also tried extending the ReleaseInterval value for longer intervals between bomb releases, but the AI will instead try to get as many bombs released as it can before pulling out, while rippling them at the set interval. I haven't tweaked any of the other DiveBombAI values like PullOutRange, so I don't know if they'll have any effect.

 

 

Are you running SF2 or SF1?

 

There are a few AI fixes in SF2 which made me abandon SF1. With the SBD the problem was gettig all 3 to drop

 

Here's the last iteration of the SBD's data

 

[LevelBombAI]

PullOutRange=0

PullOutAlt=0

ReleaseAlt=0

SecondPassRange=0

SecondPassAlt=0

ReleaseCount=0

ReleaseInterval=0

 

[DiveBombAI]

RollInRange=2268

RollInAlt=4267.2

PullOutRange=13.4112

PullOutAlt=213.36

ReleaseAlt=731.52

SecondPassRange=914.4

SecondPassAlt=914.4

ReleaseCount=3

ReleaseInterval=0.14

AimPitchOffset=0.1

 

[RocketAttackAI]

RollInRange=8999.8296

RollInAlt=1499.9208

PullOutRange=1499.9208

PullOutAlt=249.936

ReleaseRange=1999.7928

SecondPassRange=5999.988

SecondPassAlt=999.744

ReleaseCount=16

ReleaseInterval=0.2

AimPitchOffset=0

 

[strafeAI]

RollInRange=5999.988

RollInAlt=304.8

PullOutRange=30.48

PullOutAlt=27.432

ReleaseRange=914.4

SecondPassRange=1524

SecondPassAlt=304.8

ReleaseInterval=1

AimPitchOffset=0

 

 

[MiG Master]

SF2E, Jun2009B patch, with the CF-18A Hornet that comes with NF4+. I've done a little more testing and it seems the AI ignores the DiveBombAI ReleaseCount no matter what type or how many bombs I load up, whether it be 2 LGBs or 24 Mk.81 Firecrackers. I think I've scabbed together a fix:

 

[DiveBombAI]

AimPitchOffset=2

ReleaseCount=1

ReleaseInterval=8

 

The AI usually pulls out of the dive way before 8 seconds after the first bomb release so it compensates for the AI ignoring the ReleaseCount. The bomb started to hit before the target after I tweaked this so I had to adjust the AimPitchOffset to compensate. I may bring it up to 3 or 4 depending on how much more testing I do.

[+gregoryp]

SF2E, Jun2009B patch, with the CF-18A Hornet that comes with NF4+. I've done a little more testing and it seems the AI ignores the DiveBombAI ReleaseCount no matter what type or how many bombs I load up, whether it be 2 LGBs or 24 Mk.81 Firecrackers. I think I've scabbed together a fix:

 

[DiveBombAI]

AimPitchOffset=2

ReleaseCount=1

ReleaseInterval=8

 

The AI usually pulls out of the dive way before 8 seconds after the first bomb release so it compensates for the AI ignoring the ReleaseCount. The bomb started to hit before the target after I tweaked this so I had to adjust the AimPitchOffset to compensate. I may bring it up to 3 or 4 depending on how much more testing I do.

 

Thats a neat solution!

 

I'm using the Combo pak which has the Dec patch. I wonder if it's the exe? TK said they are all the same but they do have different sizes. For my WW2 mods I'm using the base SF2 exe.

[+Spectre_USA]

I've only been able to fly a couple of flights, and the sodding enemy keeps making my wingies drop their ordnance, but it does

seem mo' bettah.

 

Had 2 pairs of CBU's on each of the 2nd element dudes, and chose 3 as a release count. Sho' `nuff, a trio was released, and

actually popped a Shilka! Eureka!

 

The last was popped off at some point, but I did not see the results.

 

Reeled `em back in as they were lining up a guns run, and all was well.

 

No letters needed to be written to their virtual parents explaining that they did an incredibly stupid thing.

 

More testing needed, in a less aerial threatened area, but so far, so good...

 

[MiG Master]

 

Had 2 pairs of CBU's on each of the 2nd element dudes, and chose 3 as a release count. Sho' `nuff, a trio was released, and

actually popped a Shilka! Eureka!

 

 

Which SF series/patch, and is it level or dive bombing? I'd be interested to see if there's a series or patch level difference where your AI wingmen follow the ReleaseCount value while my AI wingmen ignore it.

[jomni]

Does range have something to do with it?

If you order them to attack at long range, say +5.0 nm, they will use missiles (Mavs and Harms).

If you order them to attack at 3.0 nm, they will use bombs.

If you order them to attack closer they use guns. Since after the first run they are still quite close to the target, they will prefer to use guns on the second pass. The .ini example in the previous page has range entries.

 

Maybe we should order them regroup. Fly out a bit further and then order a ground attack again. Haven't tested this though. But I'm getting more favourable results of them firing missiles when ordered far from the target. The only downside is that they might attack a closer non-priority target.

Edited February 17, 2010 by jomni