RPM and EPR gauges w patch 08

[+Cliff7600]

Hi,

 

If you want me to go straight to the point, read the bottom line :)

 

All my installs are 1^st Gen only.

 

I've done few editing to improve the B-26K Invader cockpit, and managed to have the RPM gauge working right (from 550 RPM to 2700) on a patch 06 install / WOE. OK!

Of course, when I "fly" the same plane on a patch 08 game (WOV expansion pack) the RPM gauge doesn't work.

Same thing with the O-1 BirdDog and the A-1H Skyraider, the RPM gauge doesn't work (on the WOV level 08 install).

But, still with the patch 08 install, the OV-10A EPR gauges are working (from 0 to 100%). That's cool, but how is it working?

 

I think that the game doesn't make the difference between "Rounds Per Minute" and "Engine Pressure Ratio", it's the same "tachometer" in the cockpit.ini file, right?

 

Another install, the Operation Desert Storm patch level 08. You can fly two different types of Bronco, the OV-10A and the OV-10D.

Guess what? The EPR gauges work in the OV-10A but don't work in the OV-10D...

 

I've checked the data.ini and cockpit.ini files :

 

The two models have exactly the same datas about the tachometers

(btw, change 260.0 to 275.0 and the needle will go to 100% at full throttle ...for the OV-10A...)

 

In the Data.ini file, there's few differences :

 

OV-10D :

 

[Engine1]

SystemType=Prop_ENGINE

InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL

EngineID=1

SLPowerDry=996375.0

ThrustAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

ThrustPosition=0.0,1.19,0.0 <------------ (off topic : is that normal?)

ThrottleRate=0.5

AltitudeTableNumData=8

AltitudeTableDeltaX=1524

AltitudeTableStartX=0.0

AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.821,0.684,0.554,0.453,0.358,0.277,0.000

SpinnerNodeName=RightSpinner

StaticPropNodeName=PropBladesRight

SlowPropNodeName=PropDisk2Right

FastPropNodeName=PropDisk3Right

SlowPropRPM=190

FastPropRPM=600

MaxPropRPM=650

IdlePropRPM=100

ExhaustEmitterName=CleanExhaustEmitter

ExhaustPosition=-2.65,-0.56.0.0

FireSuppression=FALSE

MinExtentPosition=-0.55,-6.90,-0.55

MaxExtentPosition= 0.55,-2.10, 0.55

ConstantSpeed=TRUE

NumBlades=3

PropDiameter=2.75

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableNumData=11

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableDeltaX=0.2

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableStartX=0.0

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableData=0.023,0.40,0.70,0.80,0.86,0.87,0.87,0.87,0.87,0.86,0.85

 

OV-10A :

 

[Engine1]

SystemType=PROP_ENGINE

InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL

EngineID=1

SLPowerDry=533390.0

ThrustAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

ThrustPosition=-2.127,0.437,0.0

ThrottleRate=0.5

AltitudeTableNumData=8

AltitudeTableDeltaX=1524

AltitudeTableStartX=0.0

AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.821,0.684,0.554,0.453,0.358,0.277,0.000

SpinnerNodeName=L_spinner

RotationAxis=Y-Axis

StaticPropNodeName=L_blade1

SlowPropNodeName=

FastPropNodeName=L_fast

SlowPropRPM=200

FastPropRPM=1000

MaxPropRPM=1260

IdlePropRPM=750

BSFC=0.00298

ExhaustEmitterName=CleanExhaustEmitter

ExhaustPosition=-2.574,-0.839,-0.124

FireSuppression=TRUE

MinExtentPosition=

MaxExtentPosition=

ConstantSpeed=FALSE

NumBlades=3

PropDiameter=2.50

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableNumData=11

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableDeltaX=0.2

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableStartX=0.0

PropEfficiencyAdvanceRatioTableData=0.023,0.40,0.70,0.80,0.86,0.87,0.87,0.87,0.87,0.86,0.85

 

Is there something in the lines above that can make that difference between EPR gauges working or not???

 

Both models use the same cockpit LOD : OV10_Cockpit

 

--> The point is, how the OV-10A have the EPR gauges ok and not the OV-10D? (patch level 08)

If somebody can help me understand that, I hope it will be possible to fix the others planes RPM gauges.

 

Thx

Cliff

Edited February 28, 2010 by Cliff11

[+Wrench]

have you gone line-by-line in the cockpit ini, comparing each of the gauge sections? Are the cockpit LODs identical?, meaning they have the exact same build date and file size? Have you looked through the cockpit lods (both!) or the OUT files (if available), to see if they have matching node-names?

 

the ThurstPosition line has nothing to do with the gauges; it's just where the line-of-thrust is through the aircraft lod (should match the postion of the center of the prop hub, or the center of the turbine hub/crankshaft, but that can only be checked in MAX)

 

remember WHAT the 3 positions listed mean:

 

x/y/z

 

x=distance left/right from center of lod (right with a negative number)

y=distance fore/aft from center of the lod (aft with a negative number)

z=distance up/down from center of lod (down with a negative number)

 

so,in this case, they look right to me; both engine's center of thrust is 1.19 meters FORWARD of the 0/0 point of the LOD

 

a quick look at 10A's cockpit ini, shows EngineTempL and EngineTempR listed twice each, with differing values, but all 4 calling out the same nodes. Comment out one each, -the pair that matches- and see what happens.

 

as to the SPAD, it's important to know WHICH cockpit you're using. The one I released last year, albeit based off the A-4Bs, has an accurate tachometer, and a resonalbly accurate fuel gauge (although nearly none of the gauges are actually in the correct places....but they all work!). If you're using the one based of the Cruds, it's probably gonna need LOTS of ini editing; cause, after all, it's a jet pit being used for a prop (and not having it, as I like mine better, couldn't tell you what was or wasn't changed).

 

As to the Invader, ARE you using the same cockpit ini for 06 and 08, or another one? It should make absolu-frakking-lutely no difference, only if something dosen't match.

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited February 28, 2010 by Wrench

[+Cliff7600]

About the OV10_Cockpit, they seem to be the same (date and size).

 

The thing is when the RPM needles work ok, they travel from 0 (engine turned off) to x (full throttle), covering the entire gauge, clockwise and counterclockwise move.

When they don't work, they show 0 when the engine is off, but they stay near 90% for example, moving up and down, 80 to 100 and back to 90.

It's the same behaviour with the O-1, the A-1 and the B-26 with the WOV expansion pack 08 and the OV-10D with the ODS 08 install.

The OV-10A is OK with both installs...

 

I'll try your A-1 Cockpit and I'll see if it's Ok.

 

About the Invader, it's the same LOD and the same cockpit.ini file, I did "copy/paste" from the WOE 06 to the WOV 08.

 

Cliff

[+Cliff7600]

Yes your A-1 Cockpit works perfect and the RPM needle is Ok (not a surprise!). That's cool, the A-1 issue is solved! :)

 

So, do you know something specific, that make your RPM gauge working ok on both 06 and 08 install?

How did you do that, about the RPM?

(Do you have a secret? )

 

I didn't find "EngineTempL and EngineTempR" in the OV-10 cockpit.ini, where is it?

I have "needle_RPM1" and "needle_RPM2"...

Edited February 28, 2010 by Cliff11

[+Cliff7600]

... I just don't get it...

 

In the Data.ini file, the Engine part :

 

ConstantSpeed=FALSE

 

That line solve the problem, the RPM needles move the way they should.

What this line is about?

 

It doesn't appear in the A-1 data.ini file (the one that works).

 

Anyway it works for the B-26 in WOV and the OV-10D in ODS, but I don't what it is...

[+Wrench]

did you scroll down THROUGH the OV-10A_Cockpit.ini???? Unless mine is an earlier version, left over from building ODS, this is what I have (belive it or not, I've never played the campaign, and I BUILT the damn terrain!!)

 

some data snipped for bevity....

 

[CockpitData]

 

[GunsightFront]

 

 

[CockpitSeat001]

ModelName=OV10_Cockpit

Offset=-0,0,0

Position=0.00,2.4,0.27

ViewAngles=0,0,0

MaxYaw=180

MinYaw=-180

MaxPitch=90

MinPitchFront=-90

MinPitchRear=-90

LightRange=1.5

LightInnerConeAngle=43

LightOuterConeAngle=60

LightAngles=0.0,-35.0,0.0

DiffuseLightFactor=0.5

NightLightOn=0.25

NightLightColor=0.5,0.2,0.3

Gunsight=GunsightFront

 

Instrument[001]=AirspeedIndicator

Instrument[002]=Altimeter

Instrument[003]=AttitudeIndicator

Instrument[004]=VerticalVelocityIndicator

Instrument[005]=HSIWheel

Instrument[006]=HSI_Bearing

Instrument[007]=ClockSec

Instrument[008]=ClockMinute

Instrument[009]=ClockHour

Instrument[010]=Mirror1

Instrument[011]=Mirror2

Instrument[012]=Compass

Instrument[013]=HSI_BearingMarker

Instrument[014]=LandingGearLever

Instrument[015]=Tachometer1

Instrument[016]=Tachometer2

Instrument[017]=ExhaustTempGauge1 <- note listing here and next one down

Instrument[018]=ExhaustTempGauge2

Instrument[019]=FuelFlowIndicator1

Instrument[020]=FuelFlowIndicator2

Instrument[021]=AGRadar

Instrument[022]=Mirror3

Instrument[023]=SlipBall

Instrument[024]=Turnindicator

Instrument[025]=Accelerometer

Instrument[026]=AoAIndicator

Instrument[027]=LandingGearIndicator1

Instrument[028]=LandingGearIndicator2

Instrument[029]=RadarAltimeter

Instrument[030]=StickRoll

Instrument[031]=StickPitch

Instrument[032]=Throttle

Instrument[033]=LeftPedal

Instrument[034]=RightPedal

Instrument[035]=Att2_Roll

Instrument[036]=Att2_Pitch

Instrument[037]=FuelIndicator

Instrument[038]=ExternalTankGuage

Instrument[039]=FlapControl

Instrument[040]=SlipBall2

Instrument[041]=EngineTempL <-and these 2

Instrument[042]=EngineTempR <-

Instrument[043]=OilPress1

Instrument[044]=OilPress2

Instrument[045]=StbyCompass

Instrument[046]=RangeCounter

 

[RangeCounter]

 

 

[OilPress1]

 

[OilPress2]

 

 

[EngineTempL]

Type=EXHAUST_GAS_TEMPERATURE_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_egt1

ItemNumber=1

MovementType=ROTATION_Z

Set[01].Position=0.0

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=226.0

Set[02].Value=600

Set[03].Position=316.0

Set[03].Value=800

 

[EngineTempR]

Type=EXHAUST_GAS_TEMPERATURE_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_egt2

ItemNumber=2

MovementType=ROTATION_Z

Set[01].Position=0.0

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=226.0

Set[02].Value=600

Set[03].Position=316.0

Set[03].Value=800

 

[EngineTempL]

Type=EXHAUST_GAS_TEMPERATURE_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_egt1

ItemNumber=1

MovementType=POSITION_Y

Set[01].Position=0.0

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=0.01856

Set[02].Value=400

Set[03].Position=0.05063

Set[03].Value=750

 

[EngineTempR]

Type=EXHAUST_GAS_TEMPERATURE_INDICATOR

NodeName=needle_egt2

ItemNumber=2

MovementType=POSITION_Y

Set[01].Position=0.0

Set[01].Value=0.0

Set[02].Position=0.01856

Set[02].Value=400

Set[03].Position=0.05063

Set[03].Value=750 note: there are 4 entries for same gauge

 

[FlapControl]

 

 

[ExternalTankGuage]

 

 

[FuelIndicator]

 

[Att2_Roll]

 

[Att2_Pitch]

 

[RightPedal]

 

[LeftPedal]

0

 

[Throttle]

 

[stickRoll]

 

[stickPitch]

 

[RadarAltimeter]

 

[AirspeedIndicator]

 

[Altimeter]

 

[AttitudeIndicator]

 

[VerticalVelocityIndicator]

 

----etc, etc, etc...blahblahblah

 

 

the duplicated entries at markedly missing in the OV-10D's cockpit ini. Did you try swapping them between? Bet you'll find they work

 

As to the "fake prop pit", well....lets see....8+ years modding the games, 30 years in automotive (even if I only worked on in-lines and V types, not round engines...), having an extreamly detailed book on Skyraider, complete with engine specifications and operating parameters, etc. Extracting all the needed gauge bmps for repainting, use a protractor -- that's right, laid a protractor right up against the monitor on top of the gauge psd, measuerd the angels, made the entires, tested, tested, retested, and then tested again. Took 2 solid days to dial in the gauges, and they're still not quiiittte right. But damn close. And, it was built in an 08 install; also tested in my 06 WW2 PTO install on the BT2D. So I knew it would work.

 

ConstantSpeed is for the propeller. Ie: is it fixed pitch, variable pitch or constant speed? CS props adjust their pitch automatically to maintain a 'set' RPM, no matter what amount of power is applied (iirc---it's been a really long time since I looked at my friend's ground school book -someting like 40 years!)

If I'm wrong, someone correct me, or you all can simply Google it.

 

You DO know the difference between a reciprocating engine, and turbine, right??? The ADs recip NEEDS a variable pitch, to maintian optimum RPMs for safe engine operation as do all others; look in a Mustang, Lighting, T-bolt or Cessna 150 cockpit; there'll (usually) be a lever for prop pitch adjustment. At least on WW2-era, and pre-computer controled civil/light aircraft.

 

Turbines don't need 'manual' controlled pitch, as they pretty much (again, iirc) generate nearly 100% power even when idling (again, it's been a realllly long time, and corrections from more modern, REAL pilots may be needed). Keeping the pitch constant, prevents overspeeding the turbines or reduction gears (if used, more than likely, given a trubine usually idles around 10000+ rpm, and can reach 50-70000 rpms or MORE at full power. well beyond the capabilites of any prop to absorb that shear amount of torque. To say nothing of having tip speeds WELLL beyond the mach)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Cliff7600]

I reworked the OV-10A files.

 

I found "EngineTempL" and "EngineTempR", just under my nose...

In fact there was 6 entries for 2 gauges (EGT) in the cockpit.ini

 

I thought "ConstantSpeed=FALSE" ain't the solution if the model requires "ConstantSpeed=TRUE".

So I added 2 fake engines in the data.ini and the "fun" was to link the gauges of the instrument panel to the appropriate engine, effective or fake.

It works but I need to test it.

 

Since I do some cockpit editing, I used my protractor more often laid right up against my monitor, exactly as you said, than in class of mathematical :)

 

Thanks Wrench, you cleared the way once again.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Cliff11