Beta 20 ... And Counting

[Bard 0]

uh.. i think the general consensus is this is likely going to be the last patch for LOMAC we'll receive for free, not expansions or any other payware.

 

would you agree with that?

[GhostDog 0]

You might be right - but it wont more or less right no matter the general concensus ;)

[Ruggbutt 45]

One of the beta testers stated that ED is not done supporting LOMAC. Not sure exactly what that means though.

[Growler67 0]

Continuing support has always been a pledge as far as I can recall. I've seen Stormin' post those very words a couple of times at least. I appreciate that, however it manifests itself.

[Ramstein 0]

Wether you're an optimist and consider the glass half full or a pessimist and consider it half empty doesn't much matter.

UBI & ED are businesses and that's the bottom line.Contracts & marketing direct their paths.Not some group of optimistic well wishers.

Facts are this simulation ended up a total blunder.

It had potential.And that is about as much optimism one can afford it.

The support has been subpar,even by cross spectrum gaming standards.

The attitudes of the developers and publisher have been even worse.

Bottom line is,this simulation is finished.Even the most perfect patch couldn't save it now.

Most of the stores in my area don't even carry it anymore and those that do have it in their bargain bin,along with other defunct titles.

The few optimists who continue to support it blindly can easily count their numbers wich are very few.

One look at the UBI forums shows that well.Same posters posting their praises all the time to make it appear ED/UBI has consumer support.

It's rather pathetic IMO that they're still hanging on by a burning string in hopes their dreams will come true,but the fact is it's already long over and done with.

If you don't agree wtih my observation an opinion,then ask yourself this:"Will ED out of the good of thier hearts continue to spend time(time = $$$) to shape up this product?"

ED themselves state clearly that UBI is not funding them anymore.And clearly one can see there isn't much "good in their hearts" since ED and their little gang of of clean-up crew verbally assault,dismiss and obliterate any posts that even cast a shadow of a doubt about their ill fated product.

Not much good to be seen on their part.

And if you call what they're doing now regarding the 1.02 patch continued support,then you are sadly mistaken.They have an obligation to UBI to fulfill their contract and bring the game up to standards it shold have been upon release time.

Their original obligation to UBI has not yet been fulfilled.Once that's done it's hasta la vista baby!

And there is sufficient doubt that UBI would ever support any more dealings with ED because they could not deliver the product bargained for in a timely manner.UBI isn't stupid enough to continue investing in a flawed product by inefficient developers.They'll be on to bigger and better stuff.

It's sad because there are many of us flight simmers who wish there was a really decent product for us.One that would attract even more potential flight simmers.But currently there isn't much available.So keep in mind that a lot of the LOMAC sales are to those that would be potential FS'ers,but now are let down by LOMAC.They account for much of the sales of LOMAC.

I'd almost wager a bet that ED will barely break even with LOMAC,if that.Most likely it's been a loss and will remain so.

Then again I may be wrong.Time will tell.But I can't imagine $10 - $15 bargain bin sales are enough to support the existing investement.

Not to mention the message that sends to the consumer.

Titles in the bargain bin are either ancient or flawed or simply suck.

I'd post this on the UBI forum as well,but as you all know it would be removed within no time at all.

It's more important to have "Watch this movie" & "How old are you?" & "What's your favourite XXXX?" threads over there.Not a pertinent adult discussion about their product.

[GhostDog 0]

I think i would concentrate my efforts on someting else other than Lomac if i where you.

 

Its a pity you find it such a blunder as you say. I like it. I look forward to the patch. I also look forward to what else ED might come up with; Alone or with another publisher.

[Ramstein 0]

It's a pity you don't find it a blunder as it is.

It's also a pity that you,as a forum moderator,must submit to telling me what I should do with my time.

I have not directed any personal insults towards you and I expect at least as much from you.

[GhostDog 0]

To Ramstein.

 

It's a pity you don't find it a blunder as it is.

 

Why is it a pity that i don't find it a blunder and enjoy it?

 

It's also a pity that you,as a forum moderator,must submit to telling me what I should do with my time.

 

I didnt mean to tell you what to do with your time. I meant to you what i what do if i was so dissatisfied with a game as you seem to be with Lomac.

 

It wasnt meant as an insult - maybe i just have a difficulties understanding you.

 

I have not directed any personal insults towards you and I expect at least as much from you. .

 

I havent been insulted by anything you have said or done and i dont wish you anything ill... as i said i just have trouble understanding why you spend so much time on a game that you seem to dislike so much. I would move on - but hey: thats just me.

 

You are of course entitled to your oppinions and you have every right to voice them here as long as do it in civil manner - which i so far think you have done.

 

I on the other hand have the right to disagree and wonder.

 

I hope you are cool with this - I know i am ;)

 

 

regards GhostDog

[Ruggbutt 45]

He wasn't attacking you Rammstein. He voiced his opinion in the same manner as you did. I do agree w/several of your points though, including the "Beta Testers" being the forum police over there. But, it is UBI's site so I suppose putting the 'yes-men' in control over there was a smart business proposition.

 

I like LOMAC very much and have been flying it (and having fun) even w/all of it's warts (much like the F4 community did till the code was leaked). I'm having fun programming the missions, flying same, recording tracks, rendering clips and making movies too. I guess I just found a sim that I like and I spend plenty of time w/it.

 

IMHO ED will have the next patch in great shape for all of us to get back to flying instead of the arguing that has been going on. If it was me I'd want to release the patch to fix all the niggling issues so that I could pave the way for LOMAC 2 (or whatever an addon or expansion might be called). It makes good business sense and I think that Carl and the rest at ED have enuf on the ball to learn from their mistakes. I wouldn't expect them to release another product w/as many issues (even though we all know that UBI probably forced them to release at Christmas whether they wanted to or not).

[Ramstein 0]

No problem Ghostdog.We can agree to disagree on opinions.

I'm still at a loss how you come to the conclusion that I "spend so much time"

Have you been clocking me or something?

 

Ruggbutt:I'm not doubting that you are enjoying or like the game.But imagine if it were what it should have been to begin with.

And that's something I'm hoping this patch will do.Finally give is our money's worth after nearly 8 months of waiting.But that remains to be seen yet.

And my doubts remain extremely high for any further support once they've fulfilled their contract obligations.

With all that said I'd like to inform you and anyone else reading my posts that I wish this to be the ultimate flight sim.I had high hopes when it was released and I dished out my hard earned money for it and yet more money to upgrade some computer items to try and meet the needs of the game.The latter to no avail.Doesn't sem any existing hardware agrees with this software completely.

Not only were my hopes for this FS blown away,but also hopes for add-ons .. extra aircraft,landscapes,countries,other vehicles & weapons.

I wish and still hope,but my logic tell's me otherwise.

Plus if such things were even in the planning,they would not be kept secret.Especially so when to date the core project has all but failed albeit for a few.

I'm not in the habit of following blind faith.

I'd love to see this flight sim mature into a great piece of software,but my hopes are practically nil.Instead I see it going defunct,as ED probably will as Dev. entity.Matt has already left the team.Before that the so called "dynamic campaign designer" boogied.I'm guessing they're in the whole bigtime by now,but under obligation to merely fulfill contractual requirements to UBI.And then what?

[Ruggbutt 45]

I don't doubt you want this FS to rock. Like I stated you made some great points. I wish it had been "finished" from the beginning too, but sometimes shiznit happens. I don't have time to look for the post but Carl flat out stated that UBI pushed for the Christmas release. I think that Matt's leaving has nothing to do w/anything but a better working condition, more money or both. ED is still a business entity and I don't doubt they are working on other projects, Carl has alluded to a new "engine". Not sure if it's a FS engine or not.

 

If I was a betting man I'd say that all this 'hush hush' stuff has more to do w/contractual obligations rather than anything else. UBI still has ED obligated to do this patch. That much has been said. While I don't know the specifics I would imagine that after this patch ED will have fulfilled their contract w/UBI. Maybe Carl will be better able to fill us in after that.

[GhostDog 0]

I'm still at a loss how you come to the conclusion that I "spend so much time"

Have you been clocking me or something?

 

an educated guess mate - you write long posts on the subject ;)

[Bard 0]

But imagine if it were what it should have been to begin with.

And that's something I'm hoping this patch will do.Finally give is our money's worth after nearly 8 months of waiting.

indeed.

 

i hope we never see another sim released in such a state from anyone in this genre, not holding out much hope though :(

Edited June 7, 2004 by Bard

[Ruggbutt 45]

I agree w/you on this one Bard (don't get used to that). I was pissed about Ravenshield, which cost $10 US more than LOMAC did. I don't think that I'd have posted my dissatisfaction for 6 months but thats just me..................

Edited June 7, 2004 by ruggbutt

[AirBear 0]

Ramstein,

 

Your post is so filled with opinion, conjecture and hypothesis that it's difficult to figure out how to respond. You have no knowledge of the financials, you have no market data, you don't have sales reports and I'm confident that you don't work for ED or Ubi so where is your "information" coming from.

 

My guess is that your "info" is gathered by your perusal of the various forums that pertain to Lock On. Or perhaps your system won't run LockOn the way you'd like. Your motivation is really irrelevant and unfortunately you've formed some pretty strong opinions on the subject and no one is going to change them.

 

One thing is fairly certian, you are comfortable speaking ad naseaum about issues that you have little or no knowledge about. It's also pretty clear that you'd rather be part of the problem than part of the solution.

 

Just a word of caution though, the future for this genre is as you've described, not exactly bright. The development costs for this type of product versus the return don't make it a good long term proposition. That combined with all the closet experts make the effort seem pointless.

 

I fear however that in due time your voice will be heard loud and clear. Just remember though, if all the developers pull out of the sim market, you'll be screaming the loudest because Jetfighter 8 is all you can get.

[AirBear 0]

But imagine if it were what it should have been to begin with.

And that's something I'm hoping this patch will do.Finally give is our money's worth after nearly 8 months of waiting.

indeed.

 

i hope we never see another sim released in such a state from anyone in this genre, not holding out much hope though :(

Bard,

 

You've always been very vocal on this subject and you are also entitled to your opinion. I'm just curious, what was the last flight sim title you purchased that was perfect right out of the box?

[GhostDog 0]

I'll just chip in with the closest i can get to an progress report atm.

 

Dusty Rhodes just posted this as a response to a thread requesting an update which was about to go haywire:

 

 

posted Mon June 07 2004 11:47 AM

 

Relax conspiracy theorists. We just got Beta 22 this morning. We will be testing it all day and half the night. Carl has reported, in his June 4 update, everything that needs to be updated. We'll know more in the next few days with Beta 22.

 

Dusty Rhodes

[Ruggbutt 45]

Chuck Yeagers Air Combat. I'm probably dating myself aren't I?

[Growler67 0]

F-117 by MicroProse. Gameplay was at an alltime high eventhough graphics weren't what they are today. I had a blast with that one and emmersion was there as well. Granted, realism suffered (you can't land one on a carrier and it has no internal gun in RL) but it was from box to disc drive a complete product.

[Ruggbutt 45]

And you installed it from floppies! The times have changed haven't they?

[336TFS 0]

It is my first post in this forum and I have to express a big thanks to you people that maintain and moderate it, for your unbiased, honest and polite attitude.

 

I think that we, posters and users of this freedom of opinion oasis, have to support biohazcentral, and I am willing to do so, in any logical form that you great people ask me.

 

I then have to express my gratitude to people like Ramstein (and many others), for their straightforward opinion and the mature state of their minds.

 

I want also to thank this GAME producers' for their insistence on contractualy pressing the developers to fix this product up. Unfortunately, I don't expect something to happen real soon and I promise to eat my tongue if things happen as the developers' boss informed as 3 days ago. When a group of programers isn't able to deliver in 3 years development time and 8 months afterward, IT will be a big surprise for me to see it happening, say in this rediculus week after week beta drama.

[GhostDog 0]

Welcome to Biohaz 336TFS!

 

Glad you like our site.

[Bard 0]

You've always been very vocal on this subject and you are also entitled to your opinion.  I'm just curious, what was the last flight sim title you purchased that was perfect right out of the box?

Who's saying anything about perfect? we'll never get perfect.

 

My opinion is what I think is acceptable in a retail product.

 

I would find acceptable any product that is developmentally complete. All further work past retail release consisting of bug fixes and additions, not redesigning or rewriting of features that didn't work properly or to replace "placeholder" sections of code.

 

I would find unacceptable any product that required further development to be complete after retail.

 

Of course, just my opinion ;)

[Growler67 0]

I believe I may have dated myself.

[Bard 0]

I agree w/you on this one Bard (don't get used to that).  I was pissed about Ravenshield, which cost $10 US more than LOMAC did.  I don't think that I'd have posted my dissatisfaction for 6 months but thats just me..................

I'm not one to back down from calling a spade a spade because someone's going to start crying in their beer if i do. If asked I will respond.

 

In the end it's my opinion, which can be either ignored by those who don't understand, taken with a grain of salt by those who are skeptical, or thought about by those who have some expertise in what i am commenting on.