DH-2's of No.24 Sqdn A-B-C Flights

[+quack74 329]

[+whiteknight06604 934]

another most welcome addition.Thanks again.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Hi Quack.

 

Not sure if these are finished, but if you're interested, I could make a suggestion or two in order to make the 24 Sqn scheme a bit more accurate for the time period you're depicting.

 

Just thought I'd ask first though. I don't like nitpickin' unless invited...

 

Bucky

[+quack74 329]

Hi Quack.

 

Not sure if these are finished, but if you're interested, I could make a suggestion or two in order to make the 24 Sqn scheme a bit more accurate for the time period you're depicting.

 

Just thought I'd ask first though. I don't like nitpickin' unless invited...

 

Bucky

 

nitpickin? Hardly. I would rather get them right. Let me have it.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Okay, thanks for that.

 

Just a few small changes:

 

The 24 Sqn stripey strut period began around late June '16. Used as an easy recognition device during the upcoming Somme offensive which began on July 1st.

 

A Flight used red/white, B Flight black/white, and C Flight blue/white.

 

1. You have some C Flight wheels in blue/white quarters. I've never seen any photos that support that. I think they were just plain blue. B Flight's wheels could be either white or black.

 

2. You have clear doped fabric side panels on the nacelles. Photos show that they were probably painted PC10.

Incidentally, it's a moot point as to whether the metal parts of the nacelle were painted PC10 or medium grey. It probably differed from plane to plane. But I'd go with the PC10.

 

3. You have all non striped struts in natural wood. They should all be battleship grey except the undercarriage struts which were usually (but not always) PC10.

 

I can't upload any photos ATM (Maybe tomorrow) and I can't find any online, but this guy's model is very accurate, although he has the undercarriage struts in grey rather than the more likely PC10:

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/december/aviation/DH2-09.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/december/aviation/DH2.php&usg=___Q9jJzZqNTNREAZuPFGKHY5kZP8=&h=600&w=800&sz=54&hl=en&start=13&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=hZimi6m8UmDZzM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dairco%2Bdh2.%2B24%2Bsqn%2Brfc%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_en-GBGB281GB281%26tbs%3Disch:1

 

Hope that helps.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Almost forgot...

 

Take a look at photo no.7 which shows the 'saw tooth' effect painted on the underside of many 24 Sqn DH2 nacelles.

 

http://www.internetmodeler.com/2005/december/aviation/DH2-14.jpg

 

Not sure if it's possible to do that on the FE model, but it'd be a really nice touch if you could.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Southside Bucky

[+quack74 329]

These are from Osprey's Pusher Aces. I had to generalize a bit. I was under the impression that red was A flight, Blue and white quarterd was B flight, and Blue was C flight. They did change from time to time. Thats what makes it so hard to do RFC or RAF skins.

 

DH 2 5964 of Maj Lanoe G Hawker, No 24 Sqn, Bertangles, November 1916

 

 

 

DH 2 5966 of Capt Alan M Wilkinson, No 24 Sqn, Bertangles, August 1916

 

 

DH 2 A305 of Capt Seldon Herbert Long, No 24 Sqn, Bertangles, March 1917

 

 

I'll make the saw tooth pattern for sure though. And the PC10 fuselage (fuselage, HA! more like tub with a seat )

 

Wasn't the black and white flight markings from No.32 Sqnd?

Edited March 28, 2010 by quack74

[+peter01 2]

"2. You have clear doped fabric side panels on the nacelles. Photos show that they were probably painted PC10.

Incidentally, it's a moot point as to whether the metal parts of the nacelle were painted PC10 or medium grey. It probably differed from plane to plane. But I'd go with the PC10.

 

3. You have all non striped struts in natural wood. They should all be battleship grey except the undercarriage struts which were usually (but not always) PC10."

 

Looking good quack.

 

As you have done some in dope and wood quack, whether or not you change them (Bucky is generally right), could you please keep them and make them available for download . I like them, they are good, and pretty reasonable for that time period.

 

Are you doing the "DH 2 5964 of Maj Lanoe G Hawker, No 24 Sqn, Bertangles, November 1916" with the dope on the rudder and in PC10 (if your going to do some in PC10)? Everybody would want that one, wouldn't they ? It's a nice looker too.

Edited March 28, 2010 by peter01

[Southside Bucky 1]

Yeah, I've got the 'Pusher Aces' book too. It's a pretty good book, overall.

 

All I can say though is, I've never seen any photographs of 24 sqn DH2's taken during the stripey strut period, that supports those first two profiles. A photo of the third one can be seen on page 50, so no problem there, but the nacelle (and upper wing?) numbers weren't introduced till early '17.

 

I'll try to remember to get some batteries for my camera tomorrow and upload the photos I have...I think I've got just about all the relevant 24 Sqn DH2 pictures that have been published to date.

 

And yeah, B Flight was definitely black 'n white. This is confirmed in the DH2 'Windsock Datafile', by Barry Gray, and 'British Aviation Squadron Markings of WWI', by Les Rogers.

[Southside Bucky 1]

Actually, Peter's hit on something there ...What would be really cool, would be to do a kind of 'mix 'n match' set.

 

It could contain two sets of wings: One clear doped and one PC10.

 

And five different nacelle colour combo's:

 

1. Clear doped sides with grey nose and metal panels.

 

2. Clear doped sides with PC10 nose and panels.

 

3. PC10 sides with grey nose and metal panels.

 

4. Overall grey nacelle.

 

5. Overall PC10 nacelle.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Southside Bucky

[+quack74 329]

Whoa!!! 3 schemes just turned into a dozen!

 

I was planing on doing something generic with decaling so 24 squadron would appear in single missions with different flights showing. Like the above photos. Just let me know how you would like to see A,B,and C flight. Be specific if you can on the colors. I dont know anything about the black and white version.

The plane colors I was using are all the stock colors. Struts and all. I havnt changed the color of any parts yet.

 

I'll do the other requests seperately as individual skins.

 

Those photos would come in handy now Bucky

Edited March 29, 2010 by quack74

[+quack74 329]

(From Bucky) - And yeah, B Flight was definitely black 'n white. This is confirmed in the DH2 'Windsock Datafile', by Barry Gray, and 'British Aviation Squadron Markings of WWI', by Les Rogers.

 

 

 

 

Black and white in the same pattern as my "B"Flight version. Quartered? And the the outer struts in Blk and Wht?

Edited March 29, 2010 by quack74

[+peter01 2]

Whoa!!! 3 schemes just turned into a dozen!

 

LOL. Sorry about that. I think there is some repressed demand for individual Dh2 skins tho . It was the first addon plane if I recollect correctly, but very few skins done, or at least none that really grab you (like yours quack ) Bucky and I are just the vocal agitators .

 

Bye the bye, quack or Bucky, what colour exactly is TKs Camel - not PC10? Something else? Is it realistic? I generally see Camels in PC10, and of course the Snipe in PC10 too .

Edited March 29, 2010 by peter01

[Southside Bucky 1]

Here ya go...

 

From the famous '24 Sqn Presentation Day' photo session, taken at Bertangles in late June or early July 1916. The struts were painted just days before.

 

1. 'A' Flight line-up.

 

2. A close up of the 2nd DH2 in the above line-up.

 

3. Thirteen DH2's in this line-up. Probably includes both 'A' and 'B' Flights.

 

4. 'Team Photo' of 'B' Flight, flanked by their Black and white strutted DH2's.

 

5. Two close ups of the 'A' and 'B' Flight line-up.

 

6.

 

7. Unidentified 'C' Flight DH2, with blue wheel covers.

 

8. Another 'C' Flight machine. Note the lack of the saw-tooth effect under the nacelle.

 

9. Two photos of captured DH2, serial No. 7873 of 'C' Flight. Shot down by Hptn Oswald Boelcke (holding cap/standing on wheel) on 16th September 1916. His 24th victory.

The geezer far right is MvR.

 

10.

[Southside Bucky 1]

 

Black and white in the same pattern as my "B"Flight version. Quartered? And the the outer struts in Blk and Wht?

 

No, the wheel covers were plain black, I think. I thought some 'B' Flight A/C may have had plain white wheels as well, but I've revised my opinion on that now.

 

Yes to the B/W outer struts.

 

 

Peter.

 

In answer to your question about the Camel colour: Yes, it's meant to be PC10.

 

Is it accurate? Well that's a hotly debated question. As this year old thread from the Aerodrome forum illustrates, Very entertaining in places if you have an hour to kill...Can you believe that people insult each other over a shade of green or brown applied to aeroplanes over 90 years ago?

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/camouflage-markings/41185-pc-10-cdl-varnish-mythbusting.html

[+quack74 329]

Ok I think I got it now . I might make an all around PC10 version for the generic 24 squadron with the sawtooth pattern undrneath. Then I'll make the decals for the different flight's. Like the above photos, only no blue and white version ofcourse.

 

I'll do the other versions you requested as seperate downloads.

 

BTW I would also like to do possibly No.32 Sqn DH-2's. Dope and grey fuselage with dope tail fin. If anyone could help with the wheel colors (Bucky), I think "A" flight had red wheels, "B" Flight had white wheels with a black ring near center hub, and "C" Flight had black wheels with white centers. Correct me if I'm wrong. Remember I want to make a somewhat generic version. So just a general description should do.

[Southside Bucky 1]

These are the only decent 32 Sqn photos showing the wheel flight markings I can find. Wheel colours for ALL THREE flights were black and white. No red!

 

32 Sqn DH2 7907 of 'B' Flight

 

Two views of 7851 of 'C' Flight.

 

 

Wheel markings: (Ignore the white outer ring on all three)

Edited March 29, 2010 by Southside Bucky

[+quack74 329]

Very cool Bucky . You're the man

[+quack74 329]

Today at lunch time I was home with my daughter. I left her in the living room to play and I went to clean dishes. On our coffee table was my brand new "Pusher Aces Of WWI" by Osprey Publications and a nice cold full can of GingerAle.

 

Lets just say the book is hanging up to dry!

 

[Southside Bucky 1]

I feel your pain.

 

'Bout a month ago, I went to take my copy of that big and hefty book 'British Aviation Squadron Markings' off the shelf...

 

As I was lifting it out, it hit the shelf above, fell out of my hand and the two bottom corners of the front and back covers embedded themselves straight into the pages of two of my favourite books: 'British Aeroplanes '14-18' by J.M.Bruce, and 'The Fokker Triplane' by Paul Leaman.

 

In all, the tops of about 20 pages of both books were either slightly torn or badly dented. Took me a while to get over that one...

Edited March 30, 2010 by Southside Bucky

[+whiteknight06604 934]

ouch,unfortunatly I've been there but it's usualy me doing the spilling.hope it dries ok.

[+quack74 329]

ouch,unfortunatly I've been there but it's usualy me doing the spilling.hope it dries ok.

 

 

It survived, but could use an iron

[+quack74 329]

Ok this is how I would like to do No.24 Sqn. All solid PC10 with different flight markings on the outer wing struts. Each flight will have four aircraft. The lead plane in each flight will have one solid colored wing strut in it's flight colors. The other (forward strut) will be in flight color and white striping. I want to save the dope and grey colors for No.32 Sqn. I know all DH-2 Squadrons had a mixed batch of paint styles. That would be way too much work to do for decaling. But I can do the seperately for you. Then you can mix them into your own flights in single missions. My goal here is to create a new aircraft called "DH-2 No24". Just install right into your aircraft folder and play. The different markings will appear all the time. Always in order by flights. The flights will stick together. you wont find a B flight in the middle of an A flight.

 

Anyway here are some pics. They should be about done.

 

 

 

[Southside Bucky 1]

Looking great, Quack!

 

But with the following changes, it'd be just about perfect, IMO:

 

All non stripey struts in Battleship grey.

 

Can you get rid of that grey line on the nose?

 

Would it be possible to overpaint the small grey sections at the top 'n bottom of the undercarriage struts with PC10?

 

Maybe move the nacelle roundel forward just a little bit?

 

Are there gonna be any serial numbers?

[+quack74 329]

No problem, I'll make those changes. I tried with the grey struts. It looked a little weird to me. But I'll do it. And I still have to do the serials. Should all struts be grey? Even the rear framework wood struts?