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An Impossible Mission

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This really isn't DiD or a normal AAR, so I hope you don't mind me putting it on the general forum here.


I might ramble a bit, but hopefully not unbearably so. smile2.gif


A few nights ago I was craving a little ass-kickery in a Fulcrum, so I fired up a "create mission" and selected what I thought would be the most effective (this side of the OVT at least) - the MiG-29C - Russian. Since I had downloaded the Russian missile pack, I thought it would be pretty fierce.


You know how you can usually gauge what you're in for by the number of planes in your flight? 2 normally means only a few enemies, and 8 means a massive furball will soon commence. Well, with everything set to random (except enemy air defenses, I always set that to light becuase anything else brings my lowly P4 to it's knees and leaves me with an unplayable slide show), and the year of 2007, over N-Vietnam (I only have SF2:V and the bomb range, so far other terrains I've tried just don't work right), it set me up with a flight of 2.


One other interesting point, normally I am loathe to fly as soviet (or N-Viet, or communist chinese... ie, ANYthing communist lol), even though I do love many of the planes. I usually pick Ukrainian when I fly post-soviet. But this time I tried Poland. Not sure why. I had no idea that they were considered to be bad guys in 2007. I thought they'd be like the Ukraine. But it helped to provide better competition and a more challenging mission that would have been possible against the usual mix of MiG-21s and 23s.


The game picked some interesting choices from my list of downloads.... F-16XL and F-29A. And it armed them all with AIM-9M and AMRAAMs! shok.gif


So it starts me out on a hill side. Not on a runway. I manage to bounce myself into the air, any my wingman is spinning and floundering and ending up ass-deep into the ground with only his cockpit showing, and sometimes shooting off like he was thrown by the hand of god (or Q's snapping fingers). Trying to fly to the first enemy group is impossible only because my #2 never makes it. I have ot hit 500ft and Alt-N in order to have a wingman.


So first we end up in a group of 4 F-16XLs, all armed with like 8 AMRAAMs and 2 9Mikes. It's a hell of a fight. They are definitely aggressive and you can barely hang with them. Meanwhile, the Aphids and whatever else I had were about useless.


So I got an idea.... I edited the mission, swapped in the MiG-29G. I made a copy of that plane and on the copy, since it was supposed to be NATO-ized, I NATO-ized all it's weapons locations. Allowing all NATO and WP weapons. That's the one I edited into the mission. And I took some IRIS-Ts and.... R-77s? I can't remember now, it wouldn't give me AMRAAMs for some reason.


After a few more attempts I finally managed to be able to survive the Falcons, but almost inevitably lose my wingman in the process, then the Polecats start lobbing AMRAAMs at me. Oh yeah... there are like 6 of them out there too! ph34r.gif



So after getting my butt handed to me a few more times, I decided to try some other things. I wanted to see how the F-4E 2020 Terminator stood up to this mix. Quite well actually. Not as good as the Fulcrum, but I felt it gave a nice accounting of itself. With a flight of 4 it might actually be a different fight. The F-4F KWF or whatever it was (wouldn't let me choose the ICE in the drop down in the loadout for some reason) was similar. Hard to really tell the differences. But in both cases (perhaps especially the latter?) once you slow down, you are toast. You can't really get the speed back. But with speed, you can hang.


I had been thinking that the Su-27 would be the king of this engagement. That it would not only have a better missile selection than the MiG-29C - Russian, but also carry so many in, that it was the only way to deal with all 10 enemy fighters with only 2 of us. Not to mention it's maneuverability (especially with the updated FM allowing Cobras).


But see... while I do like the Flanker, and it is even growing on me, I've always really liked the Fulcrum, and my stubborn nature wants it to do better, so I was hesitant to jump into the Flanker in this challenge.


So first I decided to break out the F-14A. A quick edit and I was back in. And.... it was amazing. It let me pack IRIS-Ts and AMRAAMs and we could fairly consistently take out the Falcons. Normally that would be as far as I'd get, but it wasn't excessively difficult to do.


At that point I had to try the F-15A. This only allowed AIM-9M and AMRAAMs. I figured it's cartoony power and good high speed turning would really serve it well, but actually.... it was worse. Because at high speed the roll rate is almost impossible to control. And at speeds low enough to not black out in the hard turns the XLs pull, you bleed off and flounder in the Eagle, but at speeds fast enough to avoid that, you go to sleep almost instantly. I'm sure there is much more potential there, but I didn't have the drive or patience to try to eek it out.


Finally, it came to the Flanker. Loaded up with R-77Ts, Alamo Es, and R-77s. Are the R-77T not all aspect? I can't find anything on wikipedia, but they don't seem to want to lock.


While it's roll rate is very comfortable, and if you keep the speed up it turns excellently, and it's good for going fast down low... it's easy to exceed AoA, unintentionally Cobra and end up hanging in the sky like an oversized missile target drone. Not good! I think in no small part because of the missiles, it is a tough fight, #2 always goes down, and I end up trying to use the mountains to get separation and a shot. Either end up crashing, or taken out by overwhelming numbers.



After that I went back to the Tomcat. And for the first time ever, took out all for Falcons, with my wingman in-tact, having 1 IRIS-T and 3 AMRAAMs still on-board, he and I got 2 each, then each took out a Polecat at range, and the other 4 were nowhere to be seen. I searched for them but finally gave up, and headed home. By the time I was 100NM away from home, Red Crown announced there were some bogeys out there, but even the T key couldn't find them. I searched at 100 and 200 range on the radar across the area she said they were.... nothing. Down to about 10000 lbs of fuel, so I just went home and landed.



Certainly not what I would have expected, but great fun. grin.gif

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Neat.Sometimes it just feels good to get it out and share.Im like you, I love to analyse the fight, then try diffent planes to alter the outcome.

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Neat.Sometimes it just feels good to get it out and share.Im like you, I love to analyse the fight, then try diffent planes to alter the outcome.



Yeah, it's always great to see how different things fair in different situations. Can serve either as an analysis of the FM, or, if you take that as good, then an analysis of the aircraft themselves (through surrogate with with less than 100% fidelity, as it is a simulation, but... arguably close "enough").


I gotta say, if the F-14A had the power it should have had from the get-go, that might be the ultimate killer. I am a little surprised, as the reputation of the others is such that it's not how you would expect it to go down. But by the same token, I'm equally surprised by the behavior/capability of the late model Phantoms as well. I might have to edit the ICE in there and perhps try the 2020 and KWF a bit more to see if I can tell a real difference. Come to think of it, I might even look at the Su-30 as well, since they are 2 seaters.


I do have to wonder about thhe F-15 modeling though. I'm not questioning the modders abilities, just saying that it seems crazy to have that fast of a roll rate at high speeds. But, like anything, if you work with it and use it properly, I can see it being a benefit (like how more powerful applications are generally less userfriendly).


It is interesting to see how the MiG-29 fairs better than the Su-27S at slow speeds, and by extention, how the Flanker is apparently really optimized for higher speed. It can pull a tight turn, but you REALLY have to watch it and really do want to keep your speed up, lest you end up over-alpha and either falling out of the sky, or left helpless.


But from that perspective, since it seems to be about a slow, tight fight, it's all down to missiles and the ability to turn hard and quickly at slow speeds. That is something the Tomcat is really good at. cool.gif


Now, that isn't to say that I'm claiming the F-14A to be superior to the Flanker A. I have another mission where the Flankers are the opponent and the 'Cats are the "heros", and it's a crazy tough fight. I can't recall if I've beaten that one or not, been a while. I know that it's almost not fun it's so hard though.


And then that's the other thing too, perhaps lacking the feel of being there for real, planes that you can abuse the hell out of are just better suited to this kind of intense fight, and that it's nothing more than that. dntknw.gif



It's all fun though. good.gif




Anybody know about that R-77T question?


Or why there are 2 MiG-29 As and Cs? The pack I downloaded lists " - Russian" and " - CCCP". What's the difference?

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