Two Paint.net questions.

[DukeIronHand 8]

Recently, inspired by RAF_Louvert and Olham, I began work on modifying a pre-existing skin.

 

So far, in doing very minor things, Paint.net has worked wonderfully.

 

Two questions and, as I am a skinning and graphics noob, if they don't make alot of sense please forgive.

 

1) Olham recently did a skin for me and stripe the fuselage with red bands. The bands appear semi-transparent, i.e., the red band is there but you can still see the previous detail underneath.

How do I do this "semi-transparent red band" in Paint.net? Is this a "layer"?

 

2) The red color used for the band. I tried the "palette" feature and could not make this color - perhaps because it is transparent (a layer?).

How can I take a color off a pre-existing skin and duplicate it exactly in Paint.net? A "Copy this Color" kind of thing and have it on my palette?

 

 

Thanks.

Edited May 31, 2011 by DukeIronHand

[Bullethead 12]

1) Olham recently did a skin for me and stripe the fuselage with red bands. The bands appear semi-transparent, i.e., the red band is there but you can still see the previous detail underneath.

How do I do this "semi-transparent red band" in Paint.net? Is this a "layer"?

 

I've never used Paint.net so can't give you specifics of its interface and commands, but I think it works in general the same as the high-dollar editors so the overall concepts should care over.

 

In this case, yes, that's certainly a layer. See, you use the original skin as either the background (iif you're just adding personalization to it) or the next one up from the background (if you're doing a total repaint), then do all your actual work on layers above that. That way you can separate your work so can change individual items without affecting or screwing up other parts.

 

Anyway, one of the things about layers is that you can set each layer's opacity to a different amount. In this case, it sounds like Ohlam set the stripe's layer's opacity to somewhere in the region of 80-90% (the rest being transparent). This is just enough translucency to let underlying details show through but still leave the upper layer nice and solid-looking.

 

Speaking of layers, when I'm doing a total repaint, I typically end up with 50-60 separate working layers. Like for the wings, I'll have 2 sets for upper and lower surfaces. Then for each set, there will be separate layers for the base color (bare canvas or paint), the aileron control surface hinges, the shading to fake 3D ribs if necessary, the rib tapes, the national insignia, and then any weathering like mud splatter, paint scuffs, etc. So that's 12 layers to do the wings (6 each for upper and lower surfaces). I might include the upper and lower surfaces of the horizontal tail in these, too, but often they work better on their own layers (so that's another 12 for that). And so on.

 

2) The red color used for the band. I tried the "palette" feature and could not make this color - perhaps because it is transparent (a layer?).

How can I take a color off a pre-existing skin and duplicate it exactly in Paint.net? A "Copy this Color" kind of thing and have it on my palette?

 

There should be what's usually called an "eyedropper" tool. The button looks just like an eyedropper. If you put this on an area of the desired color and click, it will set that pixel's RGB value to your current color. IOW, it's like that paint is still wet and you're sucking up a bit of it. Then change to one of the painting tools and apply that color elsewhere, since it's now your current color.

 

A few notes of caution on doing this, however. First off, the opacity setting of a layer affects the RGB value of the color, in that the original RGB values assume 100% opacity. As you decrease opacity (making the layer more see-through), the color gets lighter. So like if you start with 100,100,100 on a 100% opaque layer, then change the layer to 80% opacity, the RGB values will change to something like 120, 120,120 (I really don't know the exact numbers, I'm just giving an example). But the eyedropper picks up the RGB value that's displayed, not what it originally was before you played with the opacity. Thus, if you were to eyedropper this area now, you'd get 120, 120, 120 instead of 100, 100, 100.

 

So let's say you're taking Ohlam's skin and want to add more stripes of the same color elsewhere on the plane. You're working with a complete skin so the stripe is now part of the background image itself, no longer on a separate layer. Because it's slightly translucent, it's acutally a lighter shade than what Ohlam originally used, but you'll get the lighter version in your eyedropper. So, you do that and paint some other part of the plane that way, then set that opacity down so it's just as see-through as the original stripe. This will lighten the color again, so your new stripe will be lighter than the original.

 

Another thing to beware of when eyedroppering is that quite often adjacent pixels in the same area of the plane are slightly different colors. This is done intentionally by most skinners to give the skin a more natural look. For instance, on all my skins, I have a layer I call "clouds" which is a sort of static-like layer of black, blurred dots with a random density scatter. I turn the opacity of this layer way down so you can barely see it, and the result is what looks like natural grime, water stains, and whatnot. The underlying paint shows through this, but each little black, nearly invisible dot filters the color of the paint there, so I have hardly any adjacent pixels of the same exact color.

[DukeIronHand 8]

Well, goofed around again and found (and successfully figured out!) the "Color Picker" tool so I guess that takes care of Question #2.

 

EDIT: Thanks BH - we were posting at the same time!

50-60 layers?!? Guess that's why you stuff look so good. The above info has been very valuble.

Edited May 31, 2011 by DukeIronHand

[DukeIronHand 8]

Another thought on layers.

 

1) If I am doing a skin job (sounds kind of pornographic!) and end up with, lets say 10 layers, can these be "deleted" individually latter? Even after I save it?

 

2) If I d/l one of your skins for example (lets say it has 50 layers) can I go through and see these layers individually on whatever paint program I am using?

If, perchance, one of your layers really bothers me (just for this example) could I delete layers off a skin made by you in a presumably different paint program?

 

 

EDIT: Just found Gous's outstanding skinning tutorial - layers are the key to skinning it looks like!

Edited May 31, 2011 by DukeIronHand

[Bullethead 12]

1) If I am doing a skin job (sounds kind of pornographic!) and end up with, lets say 10 layers, can these be "deleted" individually latter? Even after I save it?

 

2) If I d/l one of your skins for example (lets say it has 50 layers) can I go through and see these layers individually on whatever paint program I am using?

If, perchance, one of your layers really bothers me (just for this example) could I delete layers off a skin made by you in a presumably different paint program?

 

A finsihed, playable, uploadable skin has no layers. It's all 1 layer, everything there as 1 single image. Layers are only individual entities while using a graphics editor that supports layers. When you save your skin in the format used by the game, all the layers are "flattened" into a single layer, which is then applied to the 3D model.

 

The process goes like this:

 

1. You start with an existing skin, which is only the 1 layer.

 

2. You convert it into a file format that supports layers. For instance, OFF uses DDS files for skins. Unless you have an editor (or a plug-in for your editor) that allows direct editing of DDS files, you have to convert it to some other format to be able to do anything to it at all, especially if you want to use layers. Most editors have their own proprietary file format for this purpose. For example, I use PSP 7, the proprietary format for which is PSP, and there's no DDS plug-in for PSP 7. So, for me, the process is first to use DXTBmp to convert the DDS file into a BMP file. Then I open that in PSP 7 and save it as a PSP file. Once it's a PSP file, I can use layers on it.

 

3. You do whatever editing you want to do in the proprietary format. This is where you create layers and do your work on them. Saving the file at this stage in the proprietary format keeps all the layers intact so you can keep on editing each one individually.

 

4. When you want to check your work in the game, or when you're finished completely, you have to convert the file back into whatever the game uses (in OFF's case, DDS). So, if you can't work on DDS files directly, you have to convert your proprietary format into DDS. In my case, I save my PSP file as a BMP. The BMP file as zero layers--it's everything "flattened" into 1 layer. Then I use DXTBmp to convert this BMP file back into DDS so I can see it in the game.

 

So, as you can see, whether you start with an OFF skin or a 3rd party's skin, all you have is a 1-layer DDS file with no separate layers. The only way to get the skinner's working layers is if the skinner gives you his proprietary format file that has all his layers in it. Otherwise, you just get the "flattened" version.

[DukeIronHand 8]

Excellent. Thank you again!