NATO SAM Question

[snapper 21]

Hi Everybody

 

I have a question about Blue side SAMs. Why are the Seeker FOV so small? Looking at the Red weapons that come with the game, they seem to have a seaker FOV starting at 60 (SA-2 etc). While if you look at SeaDart, Seawolf and RIM-2E they seem to have FOV around 5. Which in the original SF2 data is what seems to be a normal set up for air to air missiles.

 

Now I am not saying any of these figure are wrong, I haven't a clue what the real life figure should be, or what the game needs. I just remember reading a post a while ago that NATO SAMs were porked, and started wondering if that a ground launched missile needs a bigger FOV to engage a target.

 

What do you lot think?

 

Cheers

 

Snapper 21

Edited January 11, 2012 by snapper 21

[+Gr.Viper]

Seeker? On SA2? The thing's radio guided and detonated. The real one, that is. TK's version is in may areas at odds with reality.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Gr.Viper

[+Fubar512]

I also used to confuse the seeker field of view with the seeker gimbel limit (which is what would conceivably be set to a wide angle). A narrow FOV actually improves a missile's accuracy, and reduces the chance that the given weapon might be spoofed by simple counter-measures (flares, chaff).

 

For example, consider the R-73/AA-11 Archer. It has an FOV of 2.5 degrees (and a 20 degree gimbel limit), and it's considered one of the best IRMs in service.

 

http://warfare.ru/?catid=262&linkid=1673

 

Grim Viper has it right, a lot of tweaks were applied by the developer to overcome the limitations of the game engine, and in all fairness, those tweaks seldom adversely effect game play or immersion.

[snapper 21]

Hi Fubar512

 

Thanks for the explanation, I have learned a new thing today.

 

So lookng again at the various Data ini

 

Seawolf: SeekerGimbleLimit=46.000000

 

SeaDart: SeekerGimbleLimit=125.000000

 

RIM-2E: SeekerGimbleLimit=46.000000

 

RIM-7; SeekerGimbleLimit=90.000000

 

SA(N)-9: SeekerGimbleLimit=360.000000

 

TKs SA-2B: SeekerGimbleLimit=135.000000

 

TKs SA-8: SeekerGimbleLimit=135.000000

 

In my simple way of looking at things, I am quite surprised by the NATO weapons. If the SA-2B is a standard, then I would have thought that all the others should have been the same or greater. Is that right, or am I looking at it to simply? I think I need to experiment.

 

Cheers

 

Snapper21

[+Fubar512]

Well, that particular SA-N-9's values (it is, afterall, really an SA-15) are nooooowhere close to being accurate. You often find that with third-party stuff, as not everyone has neither the skills, nor the common sense to perform the necessary research before hand. Nor do they appear to have the patience to work that into a model, and then test it to ensure that it behaves as it should.

 

These are workable values for that missile, with just enough of a fudge factor to allow it to perform in a VLS-environment.

 

[WeaponData001]

TypeName=SA-15

FullName=SA-15 Gauntlet

ModelName=SA15

Mass=167.000000

Diameter=0.235000

Length=2.900000

SubsonicDragCoeff=0.120000

SupersonicDragCoeff=0.222000

AttachmentType=

SpecificStationCode=

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1981

EndYear=2020

Availability=2

BaseQuantity=64

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1988

ExportEndYear=2020

ExportAvailability=2

WeaponDataType=1

RailLaunched=FALSE

RocketPod=FALSE

Retarded=FALSE

FinStabilized=TRUE

SpinStabilized=FALSE

HasGrowl=FALSE

EffectClassName=MediumMissileEffects

ReleaseDelay=0.000000

WarheadType=0

Explosives=15.000000

FusingDistance=10.000000

ClusterBomblets=0

ClusterDispersion=0.000000

GuidanceType=12

Accuracy=94

MaxTurnRate=30.000000

MaxLaunchG=1.000000

LockonChance=93

LaunchReliability=95

ArmingTime=2.000000

SeekerFOV=5.000000

SeekerGimbleLimit=90.000000

SeekerTrackRate=120.000000

SeekerRange=20000.000000

CLmax=14.000000

LiftDragRatio=

MinFreq=2.000000

MaxFreq=8.000000

CanJamCW=FALSE

InterfereRWR=FALSE

MinLaunchRange=100.000000

MaxLaunchRange=15000.000000

Duration=30.000000

CounterCountermeasure=70.000000

NoiseRejection=70.000000

CapabilityFlags=0x00000032

LoftAngle=90.000000

DescentAngle=0.000000

MaxLoftAltitude=20.000000

BoosterStart=0.000000

BoosterDuration=10.000000

BoosterAccel=9.000000

BoosterEffectName=MissileFireEffect

BoosterSoundName=Missile

BoosterNodeName=

BoosterPosition=0.000000,-1.750000,0.000000

SustainerDuration=15.000000

SustainerAccel=0.000000

SustainerEffectName=MissileInFlightEffect

SustainerSoundName=MissileEngine

SustainerPosition=0.000000,-1.750000,0.000000

InFlightEffectName=MissileInFlightEffect

InFlightSoundName=

ReleaseAnimationID=-1

EODisplayFlags=0

CEP=0.000000

[snapper 21]

Thanks for that. Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on the Seawolf?

 

Cheers

 

Snapper 21

[+Fubar512]

Thanks for that. Just out of interest, what are your thoughts on the Seawolf?

 

Cheers

 

Snapper 21

 

To enable it to operate in both modes (launch rail and VLS), I'd give it a 5-degree FOV and a 75-90 degree gimbel limit.

 

The wide gimbel limit ensures that the missile "sees" its target when launched in VLS mode. That's what I meant when I referred to tweaking values to overcome "game-engine limitations"

 

What most do is to go overboard on acceleration rates and engine burn durations.