Fokker D.VIII

[itifonhom 6]

Hi again guys!

I started lately my very first "serious" attempt to 3D modeling, equipped with lots of tutorials and patience. My first subject, the "Flying Razor" or officially the Fokker D.VIII. I got some nice three side plans and got the main features accurate enough I think and although it's not my intention to add every single screw on the model, I'd like to make it detailed enough.

I know there are many members here that take WWI aviation really seriously and have huge knowledge of WWI aircrafts. So, before I go and make a mistake again, I ask for your help. I need to find many of the smaller details, as accurate as possible, details such as struts and their connections, wires, ailerons, you got the idea. For example I'd really like to know if the wing was just plywood or if it was additionally covered with fabric too or the construction of the ailerons. I don't have any WIP images yet, coming really soon.

 

Many thanks in advance for any help on this!!

[Bullethead 12]

Well, sounds like a fun project. Right next door is the modding forum for OFF where you can find all sorts of helpful info on doing such things.

 

But just to make sure before you get too far along here, you do know that this plane is already in OFF, right? It was part of the HitR expansion. So if you have that, I suppose you could use it as a reference.

[itifonhom 6]

Thanks BH! I don't think I got a problem with "how" (or I just don't know I got a problem). At the moment, the PC I got OFF+HITR installed is out of order, so I can't really use this source. I got the aircraft on RoF though but I'm afraid by looking to someone else's model, I will make the same mistakes as he might done. For example, I see on the textures of the wing a plywood pattern showing through, which might look nice but I'm not sure how accurate it is. That is the reason I see a bit suspicious modern reproductions. And from the only one I think it's good enough, the Vintage Aviator one, I can't find any close ups.

[JFM 18]

Hi, iti,

 

Sounds cool! But, what is your plane going to be doing? Not shooting anything down, hopefully, since it had zero recorded victories. The E.V that it replaced only had one that I know of. Dead-sexy airplane, though, to admire while three-pointed on the grass.

 

My understanding is the wings and ailerons were fully covered in plywood, sans fabric.

 

There is a datafile for this plane that may have useful photos for you: http://www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/25-fokker-dviii-157-p.asp I have photos of this make/model so I'll dig through them and see if there is anything you could use for detail.

[itifonhom 6]

Thanks Jim, really kind of you! Well, to be honest, haven't thought about what this model will do, it's a fully new experience to me since it's the very first model that I create. At the moment it's important to me to get it as right as I can, the renders will come later and I suppose will include some "what if" scenarios or something like it but with the correct title and description, I promise. I read though that this type had the "privilege" of the last victory of WWI, are you sure about the no recorded victories?

Many thanks for your time......

[Olham 164]

I guess you mean the victory of Emil Rolff (on 17 August 1918), who died only two days later, when the wings of the same Fokker E.V collapsed.

The skin of Emil Rolff (Jasta 6) is in the huge skin pack of OFF. The craft shows a white lightning on the fuselage sides.

[JFM 18]

Let me be clear that I have not studied Fokker DVIII victories personally--although there's nothing to study, really--but my understanding is the E.V that Olham mentioned is the only victory for the EV/DVIII. I'll ask GregvW about that, though. Meanwhile, if somebody has more information about this I'm sure they'll chime in here and set us straight.

 

A "what if" scenario sounds cool. Here's one: Show an E.V coming to land with the wings still attached and the engine running. I'm just riffing. I'm sincere when I say I think the EV/DVIIIs were dead sexy, and as regards flight sims I love to fly them. I'm sure what you create will look fantastic.

 

I'll get back to you about photos.

[Olham 164]

Here's "The Aerodrome" about the Fokker D.VIII:

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/germany/fokker_dviii.php

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I wonder who the unfortunate chap was, who was the victim of this 'last aerial victory'

 

Talk about Sh*t out of luck!

Edited September 15, 2012 by UK_Widowmaker

[Olham 164]

Here is a link to "The Aerodrome" galleries. This painting by Steve Anderson is said to show

an impression of that victory (last victory of the war - I don't believe that, but at some point

they may have just stopped confirming victories).

According to this painting, the poor British feller was a Sopwith Camel pilot from No. 203 Sqdn.

 

http://www.theaerodr...image.php?i=619

Edited September 15, 2012 by Olham

[itifonhom 6]

Nice painting! Anybody knows if there are any great external differences between the Fokker E.V and the D.VIII? Well, maybe apart from the side stencil I mean.

[Olham 164]

As far as I know, not. It should be the same plane. But after the wing failures

and withdrawal of the E.V, Fokker must have decided to give her a new name -

just to appear reassuring, I guess.

[JFM 18]

Yes, during the period when the EV was grounded it was officially decided to designate all single-seat fighters as "D" and drop use of "E" and "Dr." Thus, EV became DVIII.

 

Iti, I have some Fokker DVIII photos but nothing stellar and no good detail closeups, I'm afraid. Just several Jasta 6 lineup shot, a few isolated machines here and there, etc.

[Olham 164]

If you want to see the cutie in flight - here is Kermit Weeks flying his Fokker D.VIII.

I'm not so sure, if the 4-colour Lozenge is correctly done, but enjoy it anyway.

 

http://www.clipwings.com/index.php?command=show_video&video_id=1269

[itifonhom 6]

Like promised, some WIP images of my modeling process. Please guys, tell me what you think, now that the mesh is still "fluid" and I can easily correct any problem areas. As you can see, still lots to do but the main shape and parts are there, next comes the motor and of course, the Spandaus!!

 

 

 

 

[Olham 164]

Wow, Iti, that looks great to me!

The detail of the rigging and the wheel spokes, which can be seen in the access hatch - amazing!

 

What program do you use?

I am thinking of trying the modelling myself, so perhaps you can answer me some questions?

- is your program suitable for flight sim 3D models?

-how many hours did this take you to build?

-can smaller, tricky parts first be built in larger size, and then reduced to their correct size?

-can cockpit openings or other holes be cut out later?

-can one "insert" a ready-built cockpit into a ready-shaped fuselage later?

Thanks in advance, and good success, Iti!

[itifonhom 6]

Hi Olham, glad you liked it!

I'm still not sure about the wing thickness and I also think there should be an "edge" behind the cockpit area, looks maybe too rounded at the moment but I think the overall shape is accurate enough.

To your questions:

-I use Cinema 4D but started 3D with Blender 2.6 which has similar modeling capabilities and a better price (it's free!). Any low polygon model is suitable for gaming afaik, so yes, the program can do this kind of modeling. My model though is really hi poly.

-This took me almost 30 hours to finish but that's because I'm a real newbie, pretty sure someone experienced can do this in four to five hours, if not less.

- If you start with the correct scale from the beginning, you can zoom close enough to get the small details right too, so no need for bigger versions. But even if you want to do so, yes, it is possible.

-Yes you can, I done this one with a cut and added the "leather" part using the same "cut" part.

- Yes, given it's the right shape and scale and fits the space good, there are no problems.

 

You can almost do anything you want in 3D, I was a plastic modeler for decades but this digital version of modeling fascinates me even more!

-

[Olham 164]

Any low polygon model is suitable for gaming afaik, so yes, the program can do this kind of modeling.

My model though is really hi poly.

Ah - that explains the superb roundings. I wonder if there are certain steps to choose in a program,

what poly quality I want to use. Before I build one, and then it gets too big...

 

This took me almost 30 hours to finish but that's because I'm a real newbie...

Well, still not very long. But I guess, inside (cockpit stuff) would be the tricky thing.

And of course the rotating engine!

 

- If you start with the correct scale from the beginning, you can zoom close enough to get the small details right too,

so no need for bigger versions. But even if you want to do so, yes, it is possible.

-Yes you can, I done this one with a cut and added the "leather" part using the same "cut" part.

- Yes, given it's the right shape and scale and fits the space good, there are no problems.

Great to hear - thanks for your info!

 

You can almost do anything you want in 3D, I was a plastic modeler for decades but this digital version of modeling fascinates me even more!

Yes, I can imagine that - and will try it too one soon day.

Now the first is the choice - which program suits it best for flight sims.

[itifonhom 6]

The nice roundings comes from sub-division modeling or how it's called in Cinema 4D HyperNURBS. It's a process that smooths everything but explodes the poly count even higher! And for the most part this model is sub-divided.

Unfortunately you have to take care personally the poly count number, no program settings here afaik and some good planning and experience is needed to keep the numbers low, it's easy to add polygons but not so to remove them. The program isn't important I think, it's the file format and the poly count. So any program that can export the desired file format is good and Blender 2.6 is really good at it, supports all the "usual" file formats, import and export.

All in all, I can recommend Blender as a starter (not only) 3D application, it's free and you can't really loose anything! And since you can speak German, if you ever get serious about starting with 3D, just let me know, there are some good DVDs out there in German about starting with Blender and not that expensive either!

[Bullethead 12]

Very nice work, ITI!

 

Be advised, though, that making a model for a game is a huge task. You actually have to make about 20 versions of the model all superimposed on top of each other. These models are the full plane and also with the various parts shot off, and then several simpler copies of each that the game displays at longer distances from the the observer. And then there's the virtual cockpit on top of all that.

[Olham 164]

I've searched AMAZON for "Cinema 4D" but all I get are tutorials. Is it not made anymore?

[itifonhom 6]

Thanks BH! My model is going to be a payware 3D model for illustration use and that's why I chose the accurate hi poly path. Not sure if anyone will ever buy it but it's really fun creating it so it doesn't really matter to me.

@ Olham: you can find Cinema 4D at the Maxon website, a new version came out just a week or so ago but I have to warn you, this software is one of the market leaders and not cheap. Of course, worths every cent but still.

[itifonhom 6]

Some further update on my progress. Struts, wires and other smaller details added. Work on the engine also started but still too much to be done. I have to say here that a great help to my first modeling adventure is the tutorial DVD of Pavel Zoch (the creator of the superb Fokker Dr.1 3D model), for anyone that´s interested it can be found here:http://www.c4d.cz/en_tutorials.html . The guy not only knows exactly what he does but shows the best tricks too!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Olham 164]

Holy Moly! You are getting the details done like an old master!

Geeze, I guess stuff like those valve springs must be pretty tricky.

Now, if you could bring yourself to make models for flight sims, with less poygons, you could

send in your application for the job of building some of the yet missing models for OFF.

This simply looks stunning to me...

[itifonhom 6]

Thanks Olham, kind of you! The valve springs are actually quite easy, there is a well known trick about them. Making models for sims is something really difficult, making high polygon model is relative easy, just needs patience but make them low poly means you know exactly where to cut and that means experience, experience I don´t have. ATM I just learn, as I said, this is my very first model that looks a bit descent and actually the second at all, my first one looked really bad and I never finished it.

So, the engine is finally finished and I´m going to start modeling the propeller next, after that the Spandaus. Still a lot of work to do but one after the other is finished and my model takes slowly shape. Here are some images from the finished engine (I´m really sorry for the huge resolution of the last two images, had different render settings and noticed too late):