Has anyone else come across this webpage?

[Do335 382]

Do335--Thanks for commenting on a Blog on my website. Since you didn't identify which Blog you were commenting on, I'm kinda flying blind. But I'll try to make meaningful comments on yours. I am confused by the "yellow tailed" v.s. the "checkered flag".  The F-86Es we brought to Korea in November 1951 on the CVE  Cape Esperance all bore the WW II Black "invasion type" markings on their wings and fuselages. As I recall, the F-86As that the 4th Fighter Wing had bore the same markings.  I was assigned as a Flight Commander in the 16th Sq. in Colonel Gabreski's 51st Wing.  "Gabby" got some of the "E" models and Colonel Harry Thyng got some for his 4th Wing. After my first  few missions, because of the similar appearance of the MiG and the F-86 at altitude and  the frequent attacks of F-86s on other F-86s that we were experiencing, I knew we had to do something to make a/c identification in the combat area quicker and easier. On December 28th, 1951, I went to Lt. Colonel Jones, the 51st Group CO, mentioned the F-86 firing at other F-86 problem and told him I thought I had a solution to the problem. I mentioned the irridescent, high intensity, reflective orange and chartruese paint used on highway signs back home and recommended that our F-86s be painted with those paints with broad stripes around the wings, fuselages and vertical stabilizers--with our 16th Sq. with one color and the 25th Sq. the other. Jones scoffed, gave me derisive look and  said, "That's a stupid idea Clark. I ain't running no Gawd--d flying circus here."  BUT, just one week later he had all of the planes in the 51st Wing painted with the  strips I had recommended--but just with plain yellow paint.  It was not long before the 4th Wing followed suit and subsequently all of the F--86s in the world were pained with my recommended markings--but with plain yellow paint.

      In the 51st Wing the two squadrons were allowed a little latitude with the paint jobs on their vertical stablizers. The 16th Sq. used the yellow stripe, while the 25th Sq. used a "checker-board" design with a thin red stripe across near the top. Zhao's comment seems strange to me wherein he implies that the 16th Sq. pilots were better than the 25th pilots.  And I am at a loss to understand whatever was it that led whoever it was to make the silly observation about the 51st having some "attitude" problems???  How was that statement justified?? You are right Do335, I was shocked and chagrined at the overall stupidity and deceit of my Group CO and couldn't begin to understand what had led him to treat me in such a cruel and dishonorable manner. I didn't understand your reference to my treatment by "the general public". As far as I knew, the "general public" didn't even know I existed.  And, other than the false info that was rife in the AF and  even indorsed by General Al Boyd and Chuck Yaeger, willing or unwilling members of the "the MiG-15 is inferior" element in the Air Force, I have no idea where you got the idea that the MiG experience "buffeting and total aileron control loss near the Mach."  I personally pursued MiGs at near Mach One and never noticed the mentioned violent "control" problems. And no less an authority than Boyne writes about MiG formations flying into North Korea  at near Mach One. Were those huge "gaggles" of  50-100  MiGs all floundering through the air fighting "loss of aileron control"? And, you were right. That MiG was "so deep in my six" that NO simple anything I could do would lose him.  Thank you for your comment.

LtColJoeClark,

 

Zhao's comment was refering to the 2 Sabre wings in Korea, the 4th and 51st. The 4th was generally known to have a yellow vertial fin. If the 16th sq, 51st FIW also used that paint scheme, I didin't know (and probably didn't Zhao either).

 

For the general public I was refering to how you were treated by the 51st CO, your fellow pilots and what you read in the newspaper where, "we can beat them anyway we want", was the prevailing sentiment. That was the impression I got after reading the blog. As to the other population on earth, I'm sure that neither you nor I exist, for that matter:)

 

For my Mig performance comments they were based on now published/translated soviet documents, mostly on translated soviet pilot manual. IIRC aileron control loss and buffeting became quite severe once past Mach 0.92, and total aileron control loss at Mach .98. How that translates into tactical situations is another matter however. I still think you "demonized" the Mig a bit over the top, but that is just my own opinion.

[Heck 496]

Do335. Where did you find that Mig-15bis flight manual translation? I'd be interested in picking it up, especially to read the exact wording of the flight restrictions in the manual. I ask, because every Western pilot I can find today who talks about flying the Mig-15bis, or UTI, including UTIs rebuilt from original 15bis, never mention buffeting, even when flying the aircraft up to Mach .92, where they do talk about "adverse pitch" limitations. If you can point out where you found an English translation of the original Mig-15bis flight manual, I'd appreciate it. All these Western pilots describe the Mig's controls as being "delightful and well harmonized" up to it's mach limitation.

[Do335 382]

Do335. Where did you find that Mig-15bis flight manual translation? I'd be interested in picking it up, especially to read the exact wording of the flight restrictions in the manual. I ask, because every Western pilot I can find today who talks about flying the Mig-15bis, or UTI, including UTIs rebuilt from original 15bis, never mention buffeting, even when flying the aircraft up to Mach .92, where they do talk about "adverse pitch" limitations. If you can point out where you found an English translation of the original Mig-15bis flight manual, I'd appreciate it. All these Western pilots describe the Mig's controls as being "delightful and well harmonized" up to it's mach limitation.

I have a translated Chinese paper copy.

 

But there's that Russian version I linked in the DCS forum. You can run Adobe OCR on it and use google translate.. it gets the job done.