stephen honey

Haven't been here in a while... work commitments. I started on some Italian Nieuport 11s last year as part of a skin project to accompany the N11 I posted at the time. Hopefully I'll be able to revisit them soon to finalise them for uploading. It's been so long since I looked at them I can't remember which ones they are. I know there is a generic skin and also, I think, Stoppani, di Calabria, and Baracca (pre 'Ferrari Horse' logo). I think I may have some initial workings on an Italian Hanriot.

In short, if it's near enough it's good enough. Paint technology was still a reletively new science at the outbreak of the war. Whilst most natural pigments had been already superceded by more stable synthetic compounds developed during the Industrial Revolution, the suspensions and base colour may still have been derived from organic sources. Linseed oil and lead based whites were still commonplace and their rate of degradation when exposed to the elements would have affected the colours. The emerging car industry in the years leading up to the war and advances in the internal combustion engine during the war accelerated petrol-chemical technology resulting in a range of stable by-products suitable for paint production. But it was not until the 1920's that modern paints as we know them started to appear. I think the variation in the colours that each 'skinner' chooses adds an authenticity, in some way mirroring what would have probably happened at the time. Pilots would have chosen a 'livery' for their aircraft and had it painted maybe, to reflect some of their own personality. Whether it be to instill a fear into their opponents or create a feeling of security within themselves when they climbed aboard their 'trusty' machine. This is more prevalent with many of the German Aces seeming to have a greater artistic licence and drawing on their ancestral past for inspiration.

Thanks for the quick response Nixarass, As the guns were on the top wing I wouldn't be too worried if they weren't visible from the cockpit view.

Following some requests, I have begun working on a few new skins for the excellent N11 modelled by MontyCZ. The N11 RNAS 3891 flown by Dallas is depicted as having a twin Lewis gun mount on the wing. Can the existing single mount model be changed to incoporate this modification? Can anyone help please.... I'm O.K. with the skinning, hopeless with the tech stuff. I know I've asked for a similar thing before relating to the moving of the single Lewis to the fuselage for Navarre's red Nieuport. (I almost completed that one but found speculations as to the correct version so am doing a bit more research). Thanks

How many Nieuports had PC10 as their paint scheme? I must admit I haven't fully looked into it that much, even when I was concentrating on the paint schemes for the earlier French scouts. The RNAS had the 11's but weren't they clear doped and had a combination of French and British markings,(I have a skin nearing completion). I have seen a camo colour scheme for Dallas's 11... or was it a 16? Albert Ball flew a 16 for a while, but wasn't that camouflaged in green and brown also? If there is a PC10 version I'd happily skin one.... I'll put together some RFC 17s as well. (I haven't tried any of the 17s 'cos I could never get the gun variation placements to work). I am also thinking of skinning the blue nosed 11 used in Turkey. Do we have a suitable terrain?

Many thanks for this Panama Red. I agree, there is little external difference between the two models. The 16's did tend to have a headrest on the turtle deck but this could have easily been removed, as was often done, to increase visibility. Maybe it was to trick the enemy into thinking that this was the earlier and less powerful version. Good luck with the conversion. Navarre's Nieuports are well documented in their colour schemes. Some have already been submitted in the download section, a red one could be a welcome addition. Also the short lived but unique blue 'Le Vieux Charles' of Georges Guynemer.

File Name: Nieuport 11 Paul Tarascon File Submitter: stephen honey File Submitted: 16 Aug 2009 File Category: Nieuport Skins Paul Tarascon's first of the 'Zigomar' series of aeroplanes. All credits to Monty CZ's original model, one of my favourites. This is a large skin file but does work on my PC which is so old it was probably built at around the same time as the original aeroplane. Load the skin in the usual way to your Nieuport 11 folder and adjust the texture set number to correspond. The screenshot has Geezer's excellent Narrow Pilot, (re-skinned with moustache), in the cockpit. (A bit of positioning adjustment to the Nieuport data file needed). I haven't included it with this upload. I will do so if allowed by the original author. The Nieuport at the moment uses the standard FE pilot. Again many thanks to the original creators FE and all the other 3D modellers, skinners etc. Click here to download this file

I was surprised when I saw the photo of Navarre's 'Bebe' with a fuselage mounted Lewis for same reasons as you highlighted. I checked further and found this snippet, ironically, placed on the Combat Ace Forum a month ago by HomeBoy. 'I have been puzzled by the fact that the B.E.2c in OFF has a fuselage mounted forward Lewis gun that obviously fires through the prop (i.e. is synchronized). I was unaware that there were any Lewis guns configured this way so I started Googling. I found this fascinating article': http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/vie...20-%201391.html The relevant excerpts follow. There was apparently experimental success with synchronizing the Lewis. The problem with the Lewis had to do with the mass of the round and the acceleration necessary to get the bullet going. This delay apparently made synchronizing the Lewis difficult . (I've always wondered about that!). Anyway, here is the excerpt: QUOTE It is possible that success was delayed because the standard machine-gun used in British aircraft was the drum-fed Lewis, and all the early experiments were conducted with it. It suffered from two disadvantages: it could fire only a limited number of rounds before having to be reloaded, and the masses which had to be accelerated in the gun were so heavy that the fitting of any kind of purely mechanical interrupter or synchronizing gear was a difficult matter. (A synchronizing gear for the Lewis gun was in fact designed by Sergeant-Mechanic Alkan of the French air service and fitted experimentally to a few R.F.C. aircraft in the spring of 1916. Here is the photo I mentioned.

I don't think you can come off as being greedy with amount of contributions you and many others have made. I look at it as returning a favour in a small way. I do tend to start off making a generic skin.. but it usually ends up being personalised as were the original aircraft. I am working on a few more individual 'Bebes' at the moment. I will skin some more and keep them 'plain'. Do you have a preference, R.N.A.S., French, Belgian, Italian, Russian..... or all of them. Whilst we're on the subject of the Nieuports, is ther any way to remove the wing mounted gun and place a single Lewis on the fuselage. I was thinking of Jean Navarre's red Nieuport 11. Or even a captured version with a Spandau.

Thanks for the kind comments......and thanks to the original 3D modellers of all the aeroplanes. If it was for the great work that they do there wouldn't be anything to put the skins on. I haven't posted as many schemes as I would have liked to, I put up a few ALB DIII's a while ago but wasn't happy with them so I'll have a look at those again. Also a couple of SE5's that need another look at. In the meantime I've almost finished one of a few Nieuport 11's, just a few tweaks here and there to do. If I have permission I'll post the first very soon, again all credit to Monty CZ for his original model. I've re-skinned and clothed Geezer's excellent Narrow Pilot model for this one. Hope that's O.K. Here's a couple of preview pics.

I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing the same fragility with the Nieuports, I thought it was my feeble piloting skills. The only remedy I considered for not being shot down was to shoot myself in the foot and get hospital confinement... or defect and become a Gotha pilot. Also, although it could be my computer which was I think built just before the Nieuport came into service, I find the 'Bebe' to be a bit unresponsive and sluggish, as opposed to it's reputation for being a 'sporty' aircraft.

Many thanks for the added information and the graphics, they help greatly and are easier to interpret than the text descriptions. Interesting to see that you have the horizontal stabilisers in green as opposed to just the aileron. I was following the rule of thumb along the lines of Allmenroder's Albatros. Throwing in another question, how much 'artistic licence' was given to each individual pilot. Would they have had total say over their individual paint schemes considering the reverence they were given amongst their peers at the time. I think I'll re-gather all the bits of information I have and put them with the new bits to try and make something a little more definite..... (does anyone have a time machine, (bullet-proof preferably), so that I can go back and take some colour photographs?)

quote name='Southside Bucky' date='Nov 23 2008, 04:41 PM' post='216479'] Without wanting to over complicate things, I think it's worth mentioning that there is another school of thought regarding the colours of Wolff's early D.III: Some "experts" are of the opinion that the early Albatros flown by Wolff, which would have had the centrally placed upper wing radiator, only had the rear fuselage and tail painted purple. A purple version of Schaefer's D.III, if you will. It would appear from that photo, that the D.III Wolff's standing next to is the later variant with the off-set radiator, and was possibly painted overall red, but with a green nose and elevator. This would kinda fit in better with other J11 schemes like Allmenroeder's and Brauneck's. Decisions, decisions, eh? Bucky It is difficult to get the details 100% right, especially with conflicting opinions and accounts. A trawl through historical books and the internet doesn't offer anything in the way of wholly corroborating evidence. Several months ago, (probably nearer last Christmas!) I was working on some Albatros DIII skins for a Jasta 11 flight with a view to posting in response to request in the forum. I'm still doing them because I've changed my mind so many times as to what is an accurate representation. It's the lack of concrete information, particularly concerning Kurt Wolff's plane, that has slowed things down. I've posted up some WIPs approaching a scheme for the 'purple' Albatros and the Jasta 11 machine that I'm fairly happy with, albeit for a few tidying and detailing tweaks here and there. If anyone spots any glaring errors or could offer some extra detailing that I could add, please do.

Wonderful, many many thanks for this! Of the two things I requested information about, this was the more important to me. Maybe we can put the 4 bladed version, (plus nose spinner), on the wish list if there is a new official patch in the pipeline.