Ramstein

We,the customer do not need explanations of how & why.Nor do we need to be any developers or publishers lab tech guys. We,the consumer laid down hard earned money for a product. We,the consumer have the right to expect a decently functioning product. LOMAC does not meet those standards. Theres no room for debate there.All this jive about "helping & solutions" are not the burdon of the customer,rather the developer/publisher. So spare us customers the whining about how hard ED & UBI are working for us and turn around and throw us for a guilt trip regarding how we should be contributing to a product we have already paid for. ED & UBI are in debt to the customer in the case of LOMAC.That's all there is to it.They know it.They also know that throwing out smokescreens i.e. a tad of hope here and there and "puppets" who attempt to distort and distract from the facts is largely in their favor.Hence their forum moderation tactics over on UBI. Keep the truth hidden. Unfortunately(for them) the hope is fading as each days goes by and a patch is still not produced.Furthermore all the disclaiming that has already appeared regarding the as-of-yet-non-existant patch. I see a patch appearing sometime that will have as many bugs as the current state of the product.I may be wrong,but my gut feeling tells me so. Time will tell.Just remember me and what my predictions were when it does appear.I'd hate to have to resort to such cliche's as "I told you so" :)

To Snacky:Well if beta testing is not your cup of tea then why did you volunteer for it especially if it's taking away family time?? And as far as the "looking from the outside" comment I'll have to say that,Yes we are consumers that expect a decent functioning product and that's the end of that. We don't need explanations of how the product is being manufactured. I don't need to hear about how my TV set was produced on some assembly line and about some assembly line workers whining because he doesn't like the job. All I want is my moneys worth of a functioning TV set.And if it doesn't work or satisfy me,then it goes back.Unfortunately software doesn't have these laws in place ... yet!But rest assured it's coming.And very soon at that. It's been talked about a lot and laws governing software developers will soon be in place to protect the consumer. Likely we'll see increased pricing due to this,but hey,I'd rather have a functioning product then some hastily thrown together crap that only aggrevates.

No problem Ghostdog.We can agree to disagree on opinions. I'm still at a loss how you come to the conclusion that I "spend so much time" Have you been clocking me or something? Ruggbutt:I'm not doubting that you are enjoying or like the game.But imagine if it were what it should have been to begin with. And that's something I'm hoping this patch will do.Finally give is our money's worth after nearly 8 months of waiting.But that remains to be seen yet. And my doubts remain extremely high for any further support once they've fulfilled their contract obligations. With all that said I'd like to inform you and anyone else reading my posts that I wish this to be the ultimate flight sim.I had high hopes when it was released and I dished out my hard earned money for it and yet more money to upgrade some computer items to try and meet the needs of the game.The latter to no avail.Doesn't sem any existing hardware agrees with this software completely. Not only were my hopes for this FS blown away,but also hopes for add-ons .. extra aircraft,landscapes,countries,other vehicles & weapons. I wish and still hope,but my logic tell's me otherwise. Plus if such things were even in the planning,they would not be kept secret.Especially so when to date the core project has all but failed albeit for a few. I'm not in the habit of following blind faith. I'd love to see this flight sim mature into a great piece of software,but my hopes are practically nil.Instead I see it going defunct,as ED probably will as Dev. entity.Matt has already left the team.Before that the so called "dynamic campaign designer" boogied.I'm guessing they're in the whole bigtime by now,but under obligation to merely fulfill contractual requirements to UBI.And then what?

It's a pity you don't find it a blunder as it is. It's also a pity that you,as a forum moderator,must submit to telling me what I should do with my time. I have not directed any personal insults towards you and I expect at least as much from you.

Wether you're an optimist and consider the glass half full or a pessimist and consider it half empty doesn't much matter. UBI & ED are businesses and that's the bottom line.Contracts & marketing direct their paths.Not some group of optimistic well wishers. Facts are this simulation ended up a total blunder. It had potential.And that is about as much optimism one can afford it. The support has been subpar,even by cross spectrum gaming standards. The attitudes of the developers and publisher have been even worse. Bottom line is,this simulation is finished.Even the most perfect patch couldn't save it now. Most of the stores in my area don't even carry it anymore and those that do have it in their bargain bin,along with other defunct titles. The few optimists who continue to support it blindly can easily count their numbers wich are very few. One look at the UBI forums shows that well.Same posters posting their praises all the time to make it appear ED/UBI has consumer support. It's rather pathetic IMO that they're still hanging on by a burning string in hopes their dreams will come true,but the fact is it's already long over and done with. If you don't agree wtih my observation an opinion,then ask yourself this:"Will ED out of the good of thier hearts continue to spend time(time = $$$) to shape up this product?" ED themselves state clearly that UBI is not funding them anymore.And clearly one can see there isn't much "good in their hearts" since ED and their little gang of of clean-up crew verbally assault,dismiss and obliterate any posts that even cast a shadow of a doubt about their ill fated product. Not much good to be seen on their part. And if you call what they're doing now regarding the 1.02 patch continued support,then you are sadly mistaken.They have an obligation to UBI to fulfill their contract and bring the game up to standards it shold have been upon release time. Their original obligation to UBI has not yet been fulfilled.Once that's done it's hasta la vista baby! And there is sufficient doubt that UBI would ever support any more dealings with ED because they could not deliver the product bargained for in a timely manner.UBI isn't stupid enough to continue investing in a flawed product by inefficient developers.They'll be on to bigger and better stuff. It's sad because there are many of us flight simmers who wish there was a really decent product for us.One that would attract even more potential flight simmers.But currently there isn't much available.So keep in mind that a lot of the LOMAC sales are to those that would be potential FS'ers,but now are let down by LOMAC.They account for much of the sales of LOMAC. I'd almost wager a bet that ED will barely break even with LOMAC,if that.Most likely it's been a loss and will remain so. Then again I may be wrong.Time will tell.But I can't imagine $10 - $15 bargain bin sales are enough to support the existing investement. Not to mention the message that sends to the consumer. Titles in the bargain bin are either ancient or flawed or simply suck. I'd post this on the UBI forum as well,but as you all know it would be removed within no time at all. It's more important to have "Watch this movie" & "How old are you?" & "What's your favourite XXXX?" threads over there.Not a pertinent adult discussion about their product.

The post doesn't mention rushing a patch. Besides this upcoming patch may or may not update the game to what it should have been originally anyways. Even if it does get up to 1.0 release par,then it's merely where we should have been back in Nov '03 to begin with. And that is what was expected by anyone who bought this game. So needless to say that it is currently still an expectation that is long overdue and many people have been patiently waiting for this game to become what it should have been to begin with. It's no different than having paid for a product and having to wait 6 months to receive it. I sympathize with most of the complaints I've seen over the last several months,most of wich you cannot find anymore because over on the UBI forums they've censored out of existance to try and paint a friendly face on the game. Unfortunately I have zero sympathy for UBI or ED(the dev's) and they're little pack of attack dogs over there due the nature they conduct themselves in. Their responses to those that do complain mostly ignorant,immmature ramblings. And for you to even say that you "trust these guys" informs me that you fall into the category of "blind loyalists" "These guys" owe the patches to us and UBI.It's their obligation.Not something special that they're doing from the good of their hearts. A "do-gooder" would never respond the way they do to legitimate customers. As much as I anticipate a patch to finally bring the game up to standards wich it should have been,I also anticipate this games demise as,even when it becomes patched it will still not have any additional features wich by now should have been in the making.Such as addtional flyable planes,working multiplayer,more sceneries. And I anticipate that after the patch is released and ED's obligations to UBI have been met this sim will fall off the face of the planet.As is there are only very few followers already,only 6 months after release and the game sits in bargain bins at stores that even opt to carry it. I'm not blaming ED or UBI because I don't know who's really at fault here.Neither does it matter.What matters is that a faulty product was sold to us and it's their obligation to make good for us. I do however blame them for their unsavory behaviour,ignorantly and immaturely attacking those that criticize the product and hiding behind their little attack dogs and enticing them,who are blind enough to support their effort to what is an obligation to us,the consumer to begin with. I suspect UBI pulled the plug on them for not delivering promised product and judging by their current behaviour witnessed on forums,I'd say that had a good part to play in the decision as well.

Here's a copy & pasted post I just saw on UBI's LOMAC forum.It's already been censored out of existance,but I had to agree with the poster and her frustrations.She pretty much hit the nail on the head. "Still no patch to bring this f***ed up "so called" flight sim up to the level of efficiency it should have been upon release to the public.6 months after release and these pathetic developers still can't get it up to par.At this point expectations are that the game should have had all the bugs worked out and expansions either being worked on or already available for download i.e.more flyable aircraft,expanded sceneries,additional campaigns. But no,here we are still waiting to get their fumbled piece of ch*t playable as it should have been upon release. And all these posts of "patience" and brown nosing the dev's are truly the most pathetic sight to see when checking on here for patch updates. I check this board daily and constantly see this.The few dozen blind little puppy dogs blowing sugar up these guys asses. It's like a community circle jerk & blow on this board. Truly pathetic what this board has come to.And the reason? Everyone knows this bug ridden flight sim sucks so bad that they have to hang onto a thread of hope that it'll eventually pan out and be what it should have been upon release.That's why all you see nowadays are these "encouraging" threads on here. It's pathetic that these few loyalists are so blind or just plain too dumb to relaize that even after the next patch,should it ever be released,this flight sim will at best be a tad bit closer to the product it should have been on it's release date back in Nov '03 Pathatic indeed that these few loyalist schmucks have no higher expectations of a consumer product. Patience you say? Doesn't seem ED or UBI had any patience taking your money or releasing this bug ridden piece-of-crap. Sad thing is that even the few loyalists that still exist on here will be so disappointed eventually when/if the patch get's released because all they'll have at that point is the game as it should have been 6 months ago.And that's it! Never mind hoping for an update including additional features such as more flyable A/C models and campaigns etc. because I'm sure the effort will cease very soon. Even they've(the dev's) have told you schmucks that additional support beyond patching the existing release product is non-existant. They've already been paid all they're going to be paid for a flawed product and their contract is to patch it up and that's it. Throwing the blame at UBI seems to be the order of the day on this board.I'm not supporting UBI in way because I think as a software publisher they fall extremely short of being the ideal,but I do not blame them for throwing in the towel on this bug ridden piece-of-junk because the dev's(ED) couldn't develop a decent releasable product in time.The only thing ED has an obligation to anymore is patching the current state of it's buggy crap.Then it's "hasta la vista" And UBI probably will never have anything to do with them anymore because they can't produce proposed product,functional or on time. So laugh now all you blind mice,but remember who laugh's last ........... Remember this post by the end of the year when this buggy POS is abandoned and better stuff is being released by others. But by no means give up all your posts trying to blow sugar up their a$$e$ because it truly amuses me and I'm sure many many others who frequent this forum just to see if anything has developed,but abstain from posting here. I had to laugh real hard when the headcount thread popped up a while ago.At 7 pages long I counted a whopping 67 different username posts.Some of wich I can assure are using multiple usernames on this forum.And no,repeated posts and replies were not counted. So you can clearly see that there is merely and extremely small group on here supporting this product anymore.And it ain't gonna help any to continously post "support"threads,because anyone that frequents this board,aside from you pathetic few loyalists circle-jerking each other daily",can clearly see that this POS is clearly doomed making it urgently necessary for these few schmucks to attempt to make it appear there is still support by posting as they do. Not to mention the circle jerkers having to stoop to childish,ignorant attacks on those folks that even bother to post a complaint in way,shape or form of the product they paid for and are disappointed about.Worse yet,the dev's and moderators even participate in these events! Like I said,the last laugh will the best when you few blind mice get the same treatment once this POS has been abandoned because the funds are dry and further obligations non-existant.And trust me that time is coming very soon :) Any intelligent person,wich most flight simmers are,can clearly see that the lack of discriminating and critcizing posts/threads and the numerous defensive posts/threads are a clear sign there is something very awry here.So feel free to censor all you want LOL It only contributes to proving me and all the other disappointed consumers of this product correct! I'm sure "GayBlow: and "Suck'in NotMan"(aka Carla) will see to swift censorship of my post,but not before plenty have read it.Just for longevity sakes I'll post it on other boards as well so that the censorship here can be referenced :)) Truth sucks huh "GayBlow" & "Suck'in NotMan" Can't hide the truth "