ordway

Beautiful pic. That's a Mig-17 isn't it? It doesn't have the double-engine gauges on the right or the Mig-19 gunsight that the two-engined Mig-19 would have, I think.

I am missing information/good photos of this redmarked area between the pilot's legs: Thanks.

Thank you , Thank you , Thank you Trooper!!! I have a lot of oblong angle color and B/W photos but am missing bits and pieces of the panel. I also have a cockpit diagram...but it is too general to use much. I was reaching some dead ends until your photos showed up. This really helps! I have sharply looked at the internet for three days and come up with only bits and pieces and a UTube video that pans so quickly that it is barely useful. I still need the panel between the pilot's legs...part of the armament panel...particularily the left side of that panel between the pilot's legs. Please, everyone keep your photos both black and white and color coming on this thread of the Mig-19 instrument panel...then I can make you a better cockpit!!!! besides...cockpit photos are facinating! By the way, I flew the Thirdwire Mig-19 last night with the current modded Mig-19 cockpit I have. The difference for me personally was night and day. With the new cockpit I think differently as I fly and feel the magnificent Mig-19 as it was meant to be...a fantastic climber, boomer and zoomer extraordinare with a devestating armament....what a difference a dedicated cockpit made for me personally! My lastest update-more refined-

Interesting! Can you shoot anything down?

Back at it again! Mig-17F cockpit nearing completion. A repaint and repositioning of the Thirdwire Scooter's cockpit. The Mig-17 initially had the same cockpit as the Mig-15 according to sources. Slowly it evolved to the Mig-17F-one of the main Vietnam and middle east combat variants. According to photos these six following (at least) changes from the Mig-15Bis cockpit were added to the Mig-17F: 1. -Finally, the Russians added the rearview mirror as standard. Apparently on the previous Mig-15, it created too many technical problems to include...not that they didn't try. http://www.vectorsite.net/avmig15_2.html 2. -The temperature gauge was changed according to some photos to add a big colorful half red circle in the middle and they eliminated the colorful rainbow gauge casing around it. 3. -A large red canopy handle was added on the coaming according to some photos (very colorful and distinctive!). 4. Instrument panel rivets started having long screw driver holes instead of being flush according to some photos. 5. The huge clock instrument under the artificial horizon attained a large shiny, silver-colored frame...a reward for graduating from the Mig-15, I guess! 6. More buttons and switches were added to the upper instrument coaming. 7. Finally, the American-style six diamond gunsight reticle replaced the old British-style round circle.

Dang it. I will upload it again. About 16 people apparently successfully downloaded it before it went south....strange ..and when I upload it, half the time, a statement pops up stating that there was an error...and about the other half of the time another statement pops up stating that it was sucessfully uploaded. I guess it is always sucessfully uploaded even if the error window pops up...and I should just ignore the error popup window.

I just released it. It has many additions compared to the Mig-15Bis cockpit. Now next for a Mig-19 cockpit...it has that funky-looking square gunsight crash pad, a few double engine instruments but otherwise again very similar to the Mig-17 cockpit and the last of the "Mig-15 series" cockpits.

File Name: Mig-17F Cockpit File Submitter: ordway File Submitted: 14 Apr 2008 File Updated: 14 Apr 2008 File Category: Jet Cockpits A Cockpit mod of the Thirdwire Scooter's cockpit, to create the North Vietnam-modified Mig-17F cockpit for use in the standard Thirdwire Mig-17F. The Mig-17F was the main combat variant in the Vietnam war and Middle East and scored many victories. Referenced from multiple color photos and cockpit layout diagrams. Instruments and placards moved, eliminated, repainted and painted from scratch. Individual instruments in Russian as they were historically. Yes, it correctly has the artificial horizon correctly Soviet-color-reversed, upside down-working (I even flew an ex-Soviet fighter that had this). Campared to the similar earlier Mig-15bis cockpit many additions were made: 1. The Russians added the rearview mirror as standard. Apparently on the previous Mig-15, it created too many technical problems to include. http://www.vectorsite.net/avmig15_2.html 2. -The temperature gauge was changed according to some photos to add a big colorful half red circle and they eliminated the colorful rainbow gauge casing around it. 3. -They added a large red canopy handle according to some photos (very colorful and distinctive!). 4. The instrument panel rivets started having long screw driver holes in them according to some photos! 5. The Russians also added a large shiny, silver casing to the clock below the artificial horizon...perhaps a graduation present from flying the earlier Mig-15! 6. Two more buttons and a toggle switch were added to the instrument panel coaming. 7. Finally, the American-style six diamond gunsight reticle replaced the old British-style round circle. For SFP1/WOV/WOE/WOI. Complete credits and history in readme. Instructions: 1-Backup your files! 2- Unzip the Mig-17F cockpit (North Vietnam modified) to ...\SFP1\Objects\Aircraft\Mig-17F\ 3-When prompted, overwrite the files. More detailed instructions are included within. Just ask at the combatace forum if you have problems. Enjoy! Click here to download this file

Thanks Lexx. That never occured to me!

I just uploaded it. Next will be the Mig-17 cockpit version of it...

File Name: Mig-15Bis Cockpit File Submitter: ordway File Submitted: 11 Apr 2008 File Updated: 13 Apr 2008 File Category: Jet Cockpits A Cockpit mod of the Thirdwire Scooter's cockpit, to create the North Korean-modified Mig-15Bis cockpit. Referenced from multiple color photos, cockpit layout diagrams and the reference "A Mig-15 to Freedom" by Korean war Mig-15 pilot veteran No Kum-Sok and a US university professor. Instruments and placards moved, eliminated, repainted and painted from scratch. Individual instruments in Russian as they were historically. Yes, it correctly has the artificial horizon correctly Soviet-color-reversed, upside down-working (I even flew an ex-Soviet fighter that had this), and correctly no mirrors. Go to this thread for the discussion and color photos of real Mig-15 cockpits. http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...=27132&st=0 It includes a gyro lead-computing gunsight as per accounts with an early style English copy round gunsight reticle made in Poland. Korean Mig-15s severely outnumbered F-86 Sabres in the Korean war and sometimes threatened the air superiority situation. More than a few US aces were shot down by Mig-15s. Mig-15s usually had the critical advantages over the Sabre of a superior untouchable ceiling and generally a much faster climb rate, acceleration and a cannon armament. The true score of the Mig-15s will probably never be known. However some sources state anywhere from 78-100 F-86 kills depending on the F-86's "lost to unknown causes" categories. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-8837.html Mod by Richard "Pitts2A" Ordway. Thanks also to Brain32 for mirror placement help and to The Trooper for the coding on making the ADI and to Tazkiller for beta testing. For SFP1/WOV/WOE/WOI. Complete credits and history in readme. Instructions: 1-Backup your files! 2- Included is a Mig-15 Cockpit.zip master file. In it are two separate cockpit files for two separate aircraft (Pasko's Mig-15Bis and the Mig-15Bis00 user Mod changed flight model aircraft). Unzip the Mig-15 mastercockpit Zip file. to ...SFP1ObjectsAircraftMig-15Bis or SFP1ObjectsAircraftMig-15bis00. Within the master Zip file there are two subfiles. Open one of the two named subfiles and drop entire contents into matching named Mig folder. 3-When prompted, overwrite the files. More detailed instructions are included within. Just ask at the combatace forum if you have problems. Enjoy! Click here to download this file

Here are some notes about the "upside down" ADI (artificial horizon) from a 1953 Mig-17 restauration. "Look even closer at the attitude indicator...see anything wrong? This is the correct orientation brown on the top, blue on the bottom. Apparently the Russians hadn't figured out how to gear their gyros for proper indication that you would see today on an attitude indicator. Think of it this way, you rotate around the gyro...if you lower the nose you go up into the brown. If you climb you go down into the blue. Flying with one of these gyros takes some getting used to. I can't imagine being in the clouds with a case of vertigo." He even reports his 1953 Mig-17 still using the round gunsight reticule instead of the USA six diamond one. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...%3Doff%26sa%3DN

Thanks for the input everyone. I am exhausted by this project. So Lexx, do you mean the World War 2 type of ADI that was in the earlier American jet birds? I too am concerned that I want to do a realistic Mig-15 ADI version...but I just don't know how the poor non-pilot/non expert player can fly it. I am thinking of issuing a "regular" ADI version of the Mig-15 too. Any inputs?

Latest Mig-15/Mig-17 cockpit update for it!...taking streakeagle's suggestions....Much more moving instruments around, adding instruments and taking others away according to photos. Added oxygen flow meter, Amps /Volts Indicator, Russian specific EGT Indicator, Russian specific engine fuel flow indicator, added gunsight cables. Almost every instrument has repainted features compared to last week's version.

[[Rowe says Soviet flight instructors reminded them to fly 1000 km/hr in a combat zone. At an air temperature of 60 degrees Fahrenheit, 1000 km/hr would translate into only .82 Mach. Rowe says, "That's not fast. ]] Yikes, I hadn't seen that before and good job on simulating it! ...and good jop on finding that. No Kum-Sok (Ken Rowe) in "A Mig-15 to Freedom" also states that he was instructed to enter the combat zone at "Mach .9." However he admits that the Mach meter was probably very inaccurate. "Mach .95 was the fastest my fighter (Mig-15) could go." But again with his inaccurate Mach meter, it could have been much slower." He also states that he went to Mach .95 in extemely steep dives...however the same inaccurate Mach meter statement stands of course.

What a great cockpit! I can't wait!

You definitely mean the later Mig-17 and not the Mig-15, right? From what I understand, the later Mig-17 literally did outclass (or close to it) the F-86. The Mig-17 was definitely close to being a generation later than most F-86 Sabres...much more power and speed.

It seems to me that both of the current Mig-15 flight models are valid- Paskos's, Column 5's Mig 15 for the mig-15bis (or close) and USAFMTL and Your Taz's Mig-15 according to No Kum-Sok's reports. One acts as almost the poster child for a perfect flying Mig-15Bis and the other acts (but is fun to fly) as the most tempermental one that No Kum-Sok ever flew! Ie. in my opinion, these two flight models cover the entire possible spectrum...which is truly fantastic! No Kum-Sok states that some Mig-15s he flew had no really nasty problems at high speeds (they basically only got stiff)...and others were known and avoided as dogs at high speeds. He stated that his Mig-15 that was flight tested by the USAF, Chuck Yeager et. al was not his usual mount and was in fact one of the less pleasant, tempermental Mig-15s to fly. No Kum-Sok stated that the reason he thought many (most early Mig-15s) were so unruly at high speeds is that the level of precision was very weak in production and some wings and fuselage sections were not symmetrical to their mated halves, were off angled and the plane wanted to fly a little weird anyway at low speeds...but at high speeds, of course, these angle and drag differences were strongly exacerbated ...ie. especially in the transonic regime or some high attack angles, if I understand correctly and then you got your extra-nasty stalls, spins, uncommanded pitch ups, and yaw freezings at lower speeds and/or angles of attacks compared to other more symmetrical Mig-15s. He stated that his Mig-15s were built with comparatively low quality standards (at least in the former Soviet Union)...but built as quickly as possible to make high production quotas.

Great job Paladrian! You found the iron crosshair! That makes my job easier so that I don't have to put one in the optical sight. Now..about that mirror!....