Lt. James Cater

Found something interesting while looking up one round stops.

"In Street Stoppers by Evan Marshall & Ed Sanow, they reprint the results of 5 different studies of handgun ammunition effectiveness:

The infamous Strasbourg Goat Tests

The Navy-Crane 9mm ammo test

The Police Marksman/Fairburn study (not Fairbairn)

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police test

The Secret Service test

The Navy-Crane test involved 10 types of commercial 9mm hollowpoint ammunition, and was used to determine the issue ammunition for the Naval Investigative Service in 1991. Functional reliability was 50% of the criteria (not totally objective, some subjective opinions were counted); penetration into bare gelatin and bare gelatin after going through glass was 25%, expansion in gelatin and group size at 50yds were worth 10% each and retained bullet weight was 5%. (Note, I do not recommend these exact percentages for selecting personal defense ammo). The conclusion was to select a Federal 147gr JHP. And it was a bad decision, due to unrealistic weighting and the inclusion of subjective data in the weighting. When the data is analyzed with more realistic weighting and no subjective observations, 115gr and 124gr JHP ammo performs best.

Police Marksman magazine published a 4-year study of ammo performance in 1993. It wasn’t a test; they solicited information on shooting incidents from police officers. While the man who conducted and tabulated the survey was a proponent of slow heavy expanding bullets, his study showed them to be inferior to lighter faster expanding bullets.

The 1994 RCMP tests compared the performance of 9mm and .40S&W ammo (in 4″ pistols and a 9mm HK MP5 with 9″ barrel) to the then-issue .38+P 158gr LSWCHP (lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint, fired from a 5″ barrel) in gelatin, in clothed gelatin, and in gelatin with a section of pig rib embedded in it. The tests were conducted at 3 meters and 50 meters. The researchers were looking at total penetration, recovered bullet diameter, weight retention and % of retained weight. Penetration of less than 12″ or more than 18″ into bare gelatin disqualified a round, as did expanded diameters less than the issue .38 round. While the researchers did not recommend a specific replacement ammo, the results were interesting; the issue .38 ammo overpenetrated bare & clothed gelatin when fired from a 2″ barrel. Light 9mm rounds that tend to fragment (and have excellent real-world performance) were deemed unacceptable based upon the test criteria.

The Secret Service (which does not share much information) tested .38 ammo in 1972 and did some testing of 9mm ammo in 1987. Bear in mind that the Secret Service and the FBI have different roles and are likely to have to use their weapons in different environments. The FBI overreacted to the Miami Shootout and overemphasized penetration in setting its criteria for ammunition testing. Conclusions: hollowpoints are most effective, FMJ were least effective, and JSP fell in between the two.

The Strasbourg Goat Tests (which some claim were a hoax) took place in 1991, and used goats (with bone composition similar to humans, unlike pigs which have more fat and less calcium in their bones causing them to affect bullets differently) wired for electroencephelography (EEG) and arterial transducers to record the animals’ responses before during and after bullet impact. The point of aim was the goats’ chest cavity, with the intent of hitting a lung. The goats were not anesthetized.

They tested .380, .38+p, 9mm, .357mag, .40s&w, 10mm and .45acp; ammunition designs included Black Talon, Hydra-Shok, Glaser, MagSafe, Silvertip, XTP, Nyclad and standard jacketed & unjacketed hollowpoints.

The conclusions:

1) prefragmented/frangible rounds worked best for an unobstructed lung shot.

2) rounds that expand and then fragment incapacitated faster than rounds that only expanded.

3) hollowpoints that expand immediately incapacitated faster than bullets designed for controlled/delayed expansion.

4) more rapid rates of bullet expansion caused more organ damage.

5) higher impact velocity that caused more rapid expansion led to the highest blood-pressure spikes and greatest blood loss.

6) non-expanding bullet designs took the longest to incapacitate, if they were even able to incapacitate.

7) bullets that struck a rib took longer to incapacitate (usually twice as long) than bullets that entered cleanly. Round-nose bullets and hollowpoints with small openings performed the worst after hitting bone; wide hollowpoints were least affected by bone impacts

Regarding Glaser/MagSafe ammo, they were part of the Strasbourg tests. The point of the tests was to see what ammo would incapacitate a target fastest.

For the calibers that were tested:

.380 – MagSafe and Glaser Blue were the fastest and second-fastest incapacitators

.38SPL (4″ BBL) – Glaser Blue was #1 and MagSafe was #2.

.45acp – MagSafe and Glaser Blue were #1 and #2

.40S&W – MagSafe and Glaser Blue were #1 and #2

10mm – MagSafe was #1 and Glaser Blue was #3

.357mag – QuickShok (prefragmented) was #1, MagSafe was #2 and Glaser Blue was #3

9mm – MagSafe was #1, QuickShok was #2, Glaser Blue was #3

Given the test methodology (straight-in, chest/lung shot placement, no clothing), the results are compelling"

Yes, shot placement is of utmost importance in many situations. Someone wired on crank or pcp will keep right on coming if you don't hit anything crucial. People can also reach a beserker like rage that makes them pretty much impervious to pain for a short while.

Seeing as it's 1970s US police Macelena is studying, the most common cop round was .38 Special. Good luck with that round in a fight unless you get a head or heart shot.

As for the .45 vs .357 question? Can't really give an opinion as i've only used M1911s with standard ball ammo.

First off, go to the range and practice some to get your timing right concerning weapons release. My usual style with the F-111 is to take off and go high to conserve fuel while flying the most roundabout way possible to the enemy backyard. Then you drop down to the deck and away you go. IP is usually about 20-25 miles out. Once weapons are selected you are comitted, full power all the way until about 5-10 miles from the target (It depends) pull up hard to about 1000ft

Any radars tracking you, activate ECM and pump some chaff. Right at bombs away it's not unusual to get SAM activity so return quickly to the deck, pumping chaff and flares as you do and also go full burners to get out of the area.

Especially in our society of "We must punish anyone who might have done something wrong"

 

And yes, lesser crimes require alot less proof. A cop's word is enough for a common ticket, even if all the evidence points to the contrary.

For one thing, tickets and such are a joke. Also, it depends on the discretion of the cop. For minor league BS, the last thing the majority of cops want to do is make an issue of it if there are more important things to be concerned about in the area.

Looks like a lot of bodies are going to be drop after that attack. Find 'em, fix 'em, destroy 'em.

A routine high pucker situation for a US Navy pilot.

Its is the first step of China in the field of carrier operations. Its a difficult job. A very difficult job. It will need years to train the pilots, the ground crews and the ship crews. It will be timeconsuming, very expensive and it will cost lives. And then is the question, wheter the chinese can compare with the skills of the US carrier fleets. The more than a half century long experiences of the US boys the chinese cant copy.

I remember reading a US Admiral's quote in a magazine article back in the 80s when the Soviets were training their first carrier squadron. It was something along the lines of" We have decades of experience under our belt and still crash on occasion. They'll be routinely wiping out for quite a while until they get the hang of it".

Very, VERY nice pics!

IMO, Hollywood officially ran out of ideas right about the time they made the first Scooby Doo movie.

I wonder how good Detroit will be with Suh and Fairley anchoring the Dline.

^^

Something i just realized.

this morning i tried signing in to my E-mail but had no joy. Figuring it was a minor hangup i went about getting set for work. Well i get home and after a while decide to check my E-mail. As it turns out, not only does my password no longer work, but the security question has been changed as well.

Yahoo has all kinds of support but the catch is that you have to sign in to get help, something that i cannot do. Anyone have any ideas?

Personally, i hope to find a way to get back into my account, copy important stuff to an external HD, then shut down the account and go to G-mail, which i've heard is more secure.

Until then i'm cut off from any kind of commo from friends and family since i don't have a phone and i can't remember all their e-mail adresses.

As a player, he was pretty damn brutal. It was nice that he was able to make it as an actor after he retired from the game.

I used to watch MTV a lot in the 80s but more or less stopped in the mid 90s because bands i was into never had their videos played.

Felix Rohatyn on defaulting...

(It's like)"someone stepping into a tepid bath and slashing his wrists — you might not feel yourself dying, but that’s what would happen”

Something i learned while babysitting when i was a teen!

I'm a hotel worker. One day i ought to make a list of the absolutely screwball things our guests ask and bitch about.

That's right. But if you want a gun you can get it even if they are not general available. It just makes it a little harder to get. A couple of years ago a danish military arms depot was looted and quite a lot of fairly heavy weapons disappeared incl 19 .50cal M2 Heavy MG's. I have heard they haven't recovered all of them yet.

 

In my book it's easier for the police to keep check on legal guns than illegal.

Perhaps some of the weapons from the Great Nordic Biker War are still out there?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/28/morrissey-norway-attacks-mcdonalds-kfc

Leaves me wondering about the value of human life these days.

What kind of plane are you flying and when?

Beagles come in flights of four. If at all possible target the lead or element leader so if they're downed or forced to commit evasive manuvers the wingmen are isolated for further attacks.

When you scramble for an intercept, basically it's you and your wingmwn as the shooters and everyone else in support. Sometimes you can get more of your flights involved but that depends on the situation.

Best thing is to go up and head towards the enemy at the best possible speed with constant (IE every 30 seconds or so) checks with Red Crown. As you close in check the map aka GCI Info for proper bearings and make sure you are about 5-8 miles behind them if you intercept them far off from their target. Then you want to swing at 6 high and close in at full throttle. 5 miles for me, is the point of no return. Usually at 6-8 miles behind the incoming strike i'll push the nose down and commit.

You can bet the escorts wil react but you have the upper hand as they have to reverse onto you while with only a slight chance of a face shot.

It's virtually guaranteed that even if your missles fail to make contact, they will break up the bomber formations and so you'll be able to go to work once again.

I re uped back in April but i'll see if i can get something in next week after payday.

I swear, i must be one of very few people who are indifferent. In the music genres i follow, we've had musicians of jaw dropping ability die, some even younger than Winehouse, and go completly unoticed by the press.

I guess being honered and mourned is due only to "pop" stars.

Nothing surprises me anymore

You got that right!