Typhoid

found it. I had a printout from some months ago that included a number of carrier items within which was a quote from avsim that included the details on the Melbourne. I plugged in the updated numbers and now it works great, the Australian Carrier campaign within Line Backer II now works too. I'll upload the adjusted data.ini file for the Melbourne.

probably heavy enough to break one's neck at 7g!

I'll double check that - but it happens using a standard test mission that I've built and use successfully with other carriers and planes. This problem is unique to the Melbourne so far in the Vietnam terrain (campaign) and Bering St (single mission) as well as the KM carrier in the EAW WWII terrain. Hasn't happened with any other carrier and just to test the missions, I'll substitute carriers and planes without changing the other parameters. So far limited to only these two.

I'm guessing - reload. A suggestion. I keep a stock version with no, or limited, mods and then have the versions that I use for everything else. That way there is always a backup to the files. So when I do goon something up (if you mod - you will!) you can always step back to the stock version or last version that worked.

I wouldn't know - I'm a Navy guy!

it STARTED when you checked the gun editor? as in the problem was AFTER you did that?

Push the play button

Here is an odd issue. I've loaded every carrier and ship out there (not much surprise there!) and have built a number of carrier missions as well as added them to some of the campaigns. sometimes they work and sometimes they show up, but as the plane launches it blows up. I've noticed this with the KM carrier in some terrains, but not others. If I build a mission in the EAW WWII terrain, the plane blows up on deck or after it lands. Putting this mission into the Tunisia terrain, no problem. also loaded the Australian carrier campaign addition for WOV. The ships all show up great, the planes are on deck ready to go Downtown and lay waste to the Infidels. until the end of the cat stroke when they are "shot down". put the carrier into a single mission that works with other carriers (like the Ark Royal) and the same thing happens. any ideas? is it a nations ini issue within the terrain perhaps?

yup. Have several missions built for it and am working on adding it to some of the WOE campaigns. hadn't caught the nations bit, thanks Hinchinbrooke

Time for a Humor Check RULES OF THE AIR 1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory. 2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick all the way back, then they get bigger again. 3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous. 4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up there wishing you were down here. 5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire. 6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start sweating. 7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided with the sky. 8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great' landing is one after which they can use the plane again. 9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself. 10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to taxi to the ramp. 11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and vice versa. 12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes earlier. 13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in clouds. 14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the number of take offs you've made. 15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately no one knows what they are. 16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck. 17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them. 17a. Helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission. 18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger compartment, things are not at all as they should be. 19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the ground has yet to lose. 20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment. 21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much as possible. 22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed. 23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's not subject to repeal. 24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you, runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.

also check the Ark Royal ini file. Is it updated to the sp4? that sounds like the problem.

yes. On the initial scramble they had no target. We were completely dependent on the FAA providing a target out of the several thousand airborne over the NE. The FAA had no idea where the 1st hijacked airliner was and could provide no vector or target. Accordingly, the fighters were scrambled to a military airspace holding area waiting for a target. again, from the 9/11 Commission report (recall that the 1st aircraft which these fighters were scrambled for hit the tower at 0846); "F-15 fighters were scrambled at 8:46 from Otis Air Force Base.But NEADS did not know where to send the alert fighter aircraft, and the officer directing the fighters pressed for more information:“I don’t know where I’m scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination.” Because the hijackers had turned off the plane’s transponder, NEADS personnel spent the next minutes searching their radar scopes for the primary radar return.American 11 struck the NorthTower at 8:46. Shortly after 8:50,while NEADS personnel were still trying to locate the flight, word reached them that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. Radar data show the Otis fighters were airborne at 8:53. Lacking a target, they were vectored toward military-controlled airspace off the Long Island coast.To avoid New York area air traffic and uncertain about what to do, the fighters were brought down to military airspace to “hold as needed.”From 9:09 to 9:13, the Otis fighters stayed in this holding pattern." notes- recall from the earlier post that the first notification to NEADS of the second hijack was at the same minute as the aircraft hit the 2nd tower. So the fighters were then vectored to CAP over Manhattan after the second aircraft had hit its target. In Cheyenne Mountain, the first indication anyone there had of the second hijack was the live video from CNN of the second hit. after the Pentagon was hit, a general scramble order put everything available into the air over North America. That consisted initially of only the alert fighters under NORAD control which was initially 16 over all of CONUS, 2 over all of Canada, and 2 over all of Alaska. Additional fighters were quickly available in Alaska and Canada as we were monitoring a Russian LRA exercise that involved Bears and Blackjacks flying to North American launch points and launching cruise missiles back over the pole towards Russian weapons ranges in a pre-announced exercise. Those aircraft were quickly added to the CAP posture and the Russians very, very quickly cancelled all of their flights after a conference call between the 37th Air Army Commander and the NORAD Commander. within a few hours, we had everything available on CAP and ground alert - about 300 armed CAP. Essentially wings (all services) would call in with "X available" and they would be given alert or CAP assignments with the tasking orders following. The Navy chopped several carriers and cruisers to NORAD TACON so for a time NORAD was operating the 2nd largest Navy, supplied by the 1st largest Navy, which was coordinated by a Canadian Naval Officer on the staff (with some help from a certain retired USN type working as a defense contractor). NORAD also closed the airspace with execution of a standing war emergency plan known as Security Control of Airspace and Navigation Aids (SCATANA) and the Canadian equivelant (ESCAT). This closure of the US airspace was (after the General gave the order) carried out by a Canadian officer (ATC specialist) assigned to the NORAD staff. we maintained an airborne CAP posture around the clock with fighters, tankers and AEW aircraft for several months. I was recalled to the mountain to support the AEW/Tanker desk on the battle staff support team and was on duty the night we took control of NATO AWACS provided to support the US after implementation of provision 5 of the NATO Treaty. a rough time for all of us. We remain on a wartime defense posture.

continuing..... All of the following is from the 9/11 Commission Report which is available in bookstores and on-line. It provides a consolidated timeline of when information was passed to NEADS to what the fighter responses were. It is clear that information to NORAD was both far too late and inaccurate to be able to provide a defense. Notice of the first aircraft was only minutes from impact and in the case of the last three aircraft, information was received either at the same time or AFTER the aircraft had already crashed or hit their target. I hope this makes clear the questions asked. Typhoid. "That nine minutes’ notice before impact was the most the military would receive of any of the four hijackings." "The first indication that the NORAD air defenders had of the second hijacked aircraft, United 175, came in a phone call from NewYork Center to NEADS at 9:03.The notice came at about the time the plane was hitting the South Tower." "The FAA cleared the airspace. Radar data show that at 9:13, when the Otis fighters were about 115 miles away from the city, the fighters exited their holding pattern and set a course direct for Manhattan.They arrived at 9:25 and established a combat air patrol (CAP) over the city. Because the Otis fighters had expended a great deal of fuel in flying first to military airspace and then to New York, the battle commanders were concerned about refueling. NEADS considered scrambling alert fighters from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to New York, to provide backup.The Langley fighters were placed on battle stations at 9:09.137 NORAD had no indication that any other plane had been hijacked." "In sum, Indianapolis Center never saw Flight 77 turn around. By the time it reappeared in primary radar coverage, controllers had either stopped looking for the aircraft because they thought it had crashed or were looking toward the west.Although the Command Center learned Flight 77 was missing, neither it nor FAA headquarters issued an all points bulletin to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets. American 77 traveled undetected for 36 minutes on a course heading due east for Washington, D.C." "Reagan National controllers then vectored an unarmed National Guard C- 130H cargo aircraft, which had just taken off en route to Minnesota, to identify and follow the suspicious aircraft.The C-130H pilot spotted it, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and at 9:38, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower:“looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir.”" "NORAD heard nothing about the search for American 77. Instead, the NEADS air defenders heard renewed reports about a plane that no longer existed:American 11." (my note - NEADS crew commander to the sector commander.) "Okay, uh,American Airlines is still airborne. Eleven, the first guy, he’s heading towards Washington. Okay? I think we need to scramble Langley right now.And I’m gonna take the fighters from Otis, try to chase this guy down if I can find him." "After consulting with NEADS command, the crew commander issued the order at 9:23:“Okay . . . scramble Langley.Head them towards the Washington area. . . . f they’re there then we’ll run on them. . . .These guys are smart.” That order was processed and transmitted to Langley Air Force Base at 9:24. Radar data show the Langley fighters airborne at 9:30. NEADS decided to keep the Otis fighters over NewYork.The heading of the Langley fighters was adjusted to send them to the Baltimore area. The mission crew commander explained to us that the purpose was to position the Langley fighters between the reported southbound American 11 and the nation’s capital. At the suggestion of the Boston Center’s military liaison,NEADS contacted the FAA’s Washington Center to ask about American 11. In the course of the conversation, a Washington Center manager informed NEADS:“We’re looking— we also lost American 77.”The time was 9:34.151This was the first notice to the military that American 77 was missing, and it had come by chance. If NEADS had not placed that call, the NEADS air defenders would have received no information whatsoever that the flight was even missing, although the FAA had been searching for it. No one at FAA headquarters ever asked for military assistance with American 77. At 9:36, the FAA’s Boston Center called NEADS and relayed the discovery about an unidentified aircraft closing in on Washington:“Latest report.Aircraft VFR [visual flight rules] six miles southeast of the White House. . . . Six, southwest. Six, southwest of the White House, deviating away.” This startling news prompted the mission crew commander at NEADS to take immediate control of the airspace to clear a flight path for the Langley fighters:“Okay,we’re going to turn it . . . crank it up. . . . Run them to the White House.” He then discovered, to his surprise, that the Langley fighters were not headed north toward the Baltimore area as instructed,but east over the ocean.“I don’t care how many windows you break,” he said.“Damn it. . . . Okay.Push them back.”152 The Langley fighters were heading east, not north, for three reasons. First, unlike a normal scramble order, this order did not include a distance to the target or the target’s location. Second, a “generic” flight plan—prepared to get the aircraft airborne and out of local airspace quickly—incorrectly led the Langley fighters to believe they were ordered to fly due east (090) for 60 miles.Third, the lead pilot and local FAA controller incorrectly assumed the flight plan instruction to go “090 for 60” superseded the original scramble order.153 After the 9:36 call to NEADS about the unidentified aircraft a few miles from the White House, the Langley fighters were ordered to Washington,D.C. Controllers at NEADS located an unknown primary radar track, but “it kind of faded” over Washington.The time was 9:38.The Pentagon had been struck by American 77 at 9:37:46.The Langley fighters were about 150 miles away" "NEADS first received a call about United 93 from the military liaison at Cleveland Center at 10:07.Unaware that the aircraft had already crashed, Cleveland passed to NEADS the aircraft’s last known latitude and longitude. NEADS was never able to locate United 93 on radar because it was already in the ground."

OK, kinda busy at this particular moment but I will assign some "homework" for all who are interested before I come back and explain that one. first off- go re-read the timeline from the 9/11 Commission report with a chart (map to you (puke) civilians) in front of you and compute flight times, fuel, etc. also recall that there were about a thousand aircraft in the air at that time and; NORAD was entirely dependent upon the FAA being able to; - identify everyone - know where the hijacked aircraft were -tell NORAD where the hijacked aircraft were there is a tendency for people after the fact to assume everyone knew everything at the time that is clear only after the fact. In fact, no one EVER knows the complete, accurate picture of an engagement during the battle, and on that morning what we in NORAD heard from the FAA was; -grossly innacurate -to late -incomplete (ref the 9/11 Commision report) AFTER the curious do that - frame a specific question and when I get through with the meeting I in later today, I'll try to frame an appropriate response oh, and eraser - I'm not buying what your selling.

which one would that be? nevermind - I'm going to shut up here unless and until USAFMTL says it ok to re-engage. Otherwise I'll respect his decision to lock the thread.

"Ok everyone take a deep breath." aw shucks...... can I answer the fighter question?

what I heard you say is that you believe there was a bomb in the WTC which therefore supports all the demented conspiracy whackos who think Bush and NORAD (me and my associates) were complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

kind of a tall order. What about it don't you understand?

referencing speculation as fact, mistake, etc. is utter stupidity.

Bin Laden is not dead. He is hiding out in the badlands of the tribal areas in Pakistan.

that's an excuse. what you said was "there was at least one bomb..." no, there was not. "But there are plenty of serious inconsistencies, coincidences and questions being brought up by them that are being ignored and discredited" no, there are not. Those are all total fabrications or events taken out of context. Tell you what, as long as you do not state a question that has as its premise that NORAD (me) was not part of the "conspiracy", I can and will debunk any such nonsense that you can name. Popular Mechanics had an article that debunked every such bit of nonsense and the 9/11 commision as well covered all of the events of that day very accurately. Only the willfully deranged are stupid enough to fall for any of those wacko idiocies.

eraser_tr, while we disagree on a few things we are to some extent friends here. On this point, however, I will throw the "Bull$%&T" flag and tell you very clearly and frankly that you are not only wrong, but way off base and heading well into the deranged conspiracy crowd; as well as accusing me and the people I work with of mass murder and treason. So either pull that comment or back it up with solid proof. Otherwise......

just watch your power. I went with a 7600 because of the power supply requirements.

OK, I checked it out in a straight WOV only install. THE ADVANCED AVIONICS MOD DOES NOT WORK IN A WOV ONLY INSTALL!! More than the radar, by the way, does not work. Quite a lot of the features crash or freeze. Don't understand this because the avionics70 is in the WOV. Not sure why this reacts this way. I then moved the complete F-14D without making any changes to a combined WOV/E and it works just great. So you have two options; 1. get WOE and import objects and terrain when you install it, then drop the F-14D in and go fly. 2. install the optional cockpit with the older avionics option. That works just fine. I need to go check this out some more with some other aircraft. There may be a larger issue here.

yea, me too. I've been using WOE rather than SFP1 and have every add-on air defense pack there is. I regularly get waxed by NATO air defense when I fly the Red side.