orsin

much appreciated.

After patching the 2008 Oct for WOX, it has become a quite apparent issue for virtually all agile jets that high AoA leads to speed bleeding at low. One of that jets affected is the outstanding Su27SM released lately. In this post, I would like to discuss with anyone interested in resolving that issue. The eventually goal is to find a generic way to modify the FM of all birds and minimize the impact brought by the change of the 6DOF math model introduced by late-2008 patch. As implied in the topic, SU27SM will be taken for experiment. By default, the result will be optimized for hard settings.

all, thanks for the suggestions they are damn useful. Fubar512 I will take your suggestion and start it with a good one. The reason for this post, that I m trying to show you all the method that I want to go through to get it right, is not just because I'm unhappy with the existing FM for su27sm. What I rather want is a thread that shows everyone how to correct a FM with the same kind of problem. I hope one day it will be collected in the KB.

It is apparent that the FM needs fix, whoever made the orignal FM does not justify the accuracy at all. In fact, when the game is patched all the so called accuracy have gone IMO. Should we try oversee the most obvious problem nowadays? The bird just doesn't feel right now.

you are right. the current carpet bombing is absolutely boring. And you don;t feel any achievement doing it. my believe, TK can append this function while keeping the existing ones, so we can have a smooth transition for all the jets onward.

it might be a reasonable tweak as I find pulling the control surfaces to the maximum deflection angle does not bring significant improvement at turn rate. I didn;t measure it but my experience is about 2 degrees/second more, while the quick speed bleeding make the turn unsustainable. It appears as the bird is turning the same rate and losing its speed. Tell me if you observed anything different.

my believe, that model is a combination of Marcfighters original su27sk, ErwinHans and Lindr2's data based on reference, and some imagination for the parameters not mentioned in the reference.

Fubar512 can you explain that a little bit? I'm using the FM come with su27sm

The possible method is to modify the lift force of the control surfaces at IAS<crtical point Anyone has better idea?

3. the possible method My impression for the issue as below a) the drag&speed-bleeding problem appears more frequently at low. b) The speed-bleeding issue does not appear at maximum turn all the time, when you do a maximum turn, the speed decrease slowly initially, till it reaches a "critical point", where all in a sudden the drag get a lot larger and you bleed 100km/h per second. so the first thing that I planed was to test fly and verify my impression. If anyone can do a test flight and help verify it will be appreciated. Modifying CDLAlpha turns to be a way sacrifice the realism of the aerodynamics, tweaking the deflection angle turns to be a way that weaken the performance. We want the speed-bleeding to be prevented at the small envelop where it happens, so the tweak will target at that envelop, while IAS is less that the "critical point" The possible method is to modify the lift force of the control surfaces at IAS<crtical point I will run a series of test flight at 1000m, or maybe smaller interval, to find out the rough speed of that "critical point" We can do a plot of those critical points, link them together, and then estimate a IAS that is close to most of the plots.

2. previous attempt My previous attempt in that problem was through modifying a) Drag vs Alpha for wings and control surfaces b) Deflection angle of control surfaces Drag vs Alpha, i.e. the CDLAlpha parameter, will control the multiple of the base drag parameter under different Alphas. UsingSmaller multiples bring less drag at angles. However there is a drawback - since the drag is lower, at altitude, there will always be an envelop where you can accelerate to over 1000km at maximum turn! Another way is to limit the deflection angle of control surfaces, thus prevent high AoA to happen. Apparently that will worsen the performance at high speed. As a result, these methods are not considered the best way and we will substitude with better methods.

1. tools involved AIDE was a very good tool to forecast the air performance. However after late-2008 patch, it has shown its shortage. My previous test flight under hard mode shows its inaccuracy nowadays. No offence to the author, it is just because TW added more parameters and changed the way that the game engine calculating the 6DOF math model. As a result, AIDE is completely abandoned in this improvement. I will run thousands of test flight to achieve the data needed. It is no longer recommended to use the result of AIDE as guidelines for hard mode.

USAF: Air Dominance, a product born between WoV and WoE, where you find TW's original Mig 29 and F-22 http://www.criticalmassinteractive.com/cli...nance/USAF.html

我当初玩上SF是托老黑的福，玩了以后就喜欢上mig23了，开一个帖子贴一些mig23研究的东西，有利于编写data文件。

I'm trying to solve all the remaining problems of Mig31M/BM and release a relatively usable version. One problem that I have noticed is the unwanted roll (to the right) under hard setting, whenever there is a loadout. That problem, as mentioned by fastcargo, is due to the incorrect location of PIVOT POINTS of all the pylons in the 3DSMax file. The problem suggests that a number of pylons, if not all, have their pivot points concentrated at one position at the right of model. So here is where you can help - correct the pivot points to each pylon, and provide me the new lod file. FastCargo reasoned that problem at below post http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...mp;#entry235031

do you have a quick fix for the problem?

? so is there a way to fix this with a ini tweak? what if i move the centre of gravity a little bit?

same loadout. when there's no loadout this is not obvious, when there is even a small missile can cause this problem

no one?

Can anyone help post these files to the file announcement section? Credits to Marcfighter and Lindr2 for their excellent work on the original FMs. 1. SU-27SK/China J11 FM modified based on Marcfighter's original model It has been a quite disappointment to see little discussion about the performance issue of Marcfighter's SU27SK after 2008 patch of WOX series. I doubt if there is still anyone other than me playing su27 nowadays. The issue is quite apparent - under hard mode, su-27 has too much maneuvability that makes AI players run this bird into endless cobra-like movements in aircombat, which is an obviously unsustainable way leading to eventual disadvantage in dogfights due to low energy. The FM is also not stable in yaw leading to uncontrollable rolls at high AoA. When we "human" controlling this bird, it is also likely to have a blackout every 2 seconds. So there is where I start tinkering - beat the trend to run into high AoA, while also maintain an overall agility. You find a much less effective stabilizer, it has smaller angle, and faster rotating speed. The aileron is also modifed to synchronize the motion of rotating. The test drive shows quite a good result - slightly better than the stock F15A, while enable AI play to maintain its energy. I play a few 12 x Su27 vs 16 F15+8 F4 case under hard/hard setting and had the chance to win out in all the case.

As you all have seen the excellent new menu set for SF series presented by Kout, at 1920 x 1200, I would like to initiate a small project to make a new menu set based on that template at 1024 x 768 to suit many fellas that cannot afford full HD. the basic rule is to make a common set of menu for all options menu and individual screen for WOE/WOV/WOI. hereby I would like to call for your participation to submit good screen captures at 1024 x 768 or any other resolution with a 4:3 ratio that can be used by this new menu set. by posting your screen capture you agree to follow Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 1.0 license and also give credits to to Kout for his work on the template, interface design thought and elements, ini works and all effort being used in the new menu set at 1024 x 768.

2. Mig 29G FM based on Lindr2's recent release of Mig 29 BM FM. First I would like to thank Lindr2 for presenting us his serious Mig 29 BM FM, which is based on real data from russian/soviet references. As such I don;t have to modify most parts of this FM. The change focused on beating the trend to rotate back at x-horizon (roll) at low speed (IAS < 350kmh). A minor change also fix the wrong rotating direction at Aileron/stabilizer. The overall outcome is pleasing. The modified FM gives you a 50/50 chance to beat the stock F16 in WOI, hard mode. AI also run it well and can fight F18 at close to 1:1 shotdown ratio.

loaded to download section, waiting for admission to release.

File Name: Mig29G and Su27SK/China J11 modified FM File Submitter: orsin File Submitted: 23 Jan 2009 File Category: Ini Edits Credits to Marcfighter and Lindr2 for their excellent work on the original FMs 1. SU-27SK/China J11 FM modified based on Marcfighter's original model It has been a quite disappointment to see little discussion about the performance issue of Marcfighter's SU27SK after 2008 patch of WOX series. I doubt if there is still anyone other than me playing su27 nowadays. The issue is quite apparent - under hard mode, su-27 has too much maneuvability that makes AI players run this bird into endless cobra-like movements in aircombat, which is an obviously unsustainable way leading to eventual disadvantage in dogfights due to low energy. The FM is also not stable in yaw leading to uncontrollable rolls at high AoA. When we "human" controlling this bird, it is also likely to have a blackout every 2 seconds. So there is where I start tinkering - beat the trend to run into high AoA, while also maintain an overall agility. In this model, You find a much less effective stabilizer, it has smaller angle, and faster rotating speed. The aileron is also modifed to synchronize the motion of rotating. Drag is also modified to fit this change. The test drive shows quite a good result - slightly better than the stock F15A, while enable AI play to maintain its energy. I play a few 12 x Su27 vs 16 F15+8 F4 case under hard/hard setting and had the chance to win out in all the case. 2. Mig 29G FM based on Lindr2's recent release of Mig 29 BM FM. First I would like to thank Lindr2 for presenting us his serious Mig 29 BM FM, which is based on real data from russian/soviet references. As such I don;t have to modify most parts of this FM. most of my change focused on beating the trend to rotate back at x-horizon at low speed (IAS < 350kmh). A minor change also fix the problem that the model rotate the aileron and stabilizer at the wrong direction. The overall outcome is also pleasing. The modified FM gives you a 50/50 chance to beat the stock F16 in WOI, hard mode. AI also run it well and can fight F18 at close to 1:1 shotdown ratio. Insky_orsin Click here to download this file

I have noticed the ailerons of Lindr2's FM are rotating at wrong direction and below is a fix based on my FM updated yesterday. I have also put the stabilizers into roll control. Insky_orsin