LCountach

My question is simple really but the answer may not be. What is the most authentic/realistic Addon F-16C available for WOE? I am very new to this sim but what I have gathered so far is this. There is a F-16A included in WOI with a great Flight Model. I don't know the avionics package used for the included WOI F-16A but I am guessing its good. What I understand is that there are two customizable avionics "60" and "70". The "70" being much more advanced and possibly a better fit for the F-16C. Unfortunately it seems "70" may lack ground radar? Is this still true with the latest Sep2008 patch? My ideal F-16C would be an exported F-16A from WOI into WOE. It would then have a custom pit more accurately representing the F-16C and a weapons loadout to match. Does such an addon exist? If not how might I go about creating one? I know in the downloads section in 2005 Dave uploaded some nice F-16Cs with authentic looking cockpits. I am almost positive the 3D and Flight models are not from WOI. Would it be possible to use the WOI F-16A as a base and import the pit from Dave's F-16Cs? The completed airplane flyable in WOE. Just some ideas. Thanks in advance.

I did a little searching about this but came up virtually empty. I wish to know which Third Wire Campaigns utilize carriers. That is which ones actually allow the player to take off and land in missions? It is my understanding there is a carrier included in WOV correct? In addition to that, I wish to know which AddOn campaigns utilize carriers. Also I don't fully understand how aircraft are selected inside the campaign environment. Do campaigns allow the player to fly more than one type of aircraft? If so is it picked randomly by the campaign or can the player chose? Essentially I would like to know how campaigns work for both player aircraft and how it selects missions. NOTE: I know th KB has a tutorial for adding carriers but that is not what I am looking for. Well at least not yet anyway. Thanks in advance.

Ok thanks. That leads me to another question. Is there some sort of guide that I can follow that will show the progression of service aircraft from one to the next. From what you have said I may miss out on some things if I chose the wrong service. If I chose Air Force for example. Will I miss out on the carriers?

I was playing WOV about a week ago. I decided to try the first campaign with the Thunderchief. I like to fly low and fast and I noticed that there were a great many random tracer bursts shooting up from the jungle. I usually play Single Mission I had never seen random shooting before. I assumed it was infantry because there were no objects on the ground where the shots would come from. I was definitely flying low enough to have seen something if it was there. I have decided to go back to the campaign but now every mission I fly there are no random bursts coming from the jungle. What conditions must be met to get those infantry back? I know I was not hallucinating because those shots were there for a great many miles of those missions. Please tell me I was not seeing things.

Thats really cool. Wish I could find more missions with that many AAA.

Well I have never used yankeeairpirate so that rules that out. I know it was the stock Rolling Thunder campaign. I always play on hard. So trying to lock them would have been impossible. Now they are gone so it's truly impossible. As for them being AAA there would have been quite a lot of them. I am talking 20+ placed randomly in the jungle along my route. They were also quite inaccurate. I was flying at less than 200 feet and saw no object to which I could say the tracers were coming from. However more than one of you claim there are no infantry so I must agree. What else could it be? Strangely why have I not encountered such an occurrence in any other mission?

In my previous thread I posted a method to mod the existing Cobra's Flight Model to act a bit more realistically. Here is a totally new approach to that idea. What I did was remove all the aircrafts wings and control surfaces. I then added the multi nozzle control system of the harrier in jump mode. The result was a surprisingly realistic helicopter control scheme. The original author gave me permission to share the new modded flight model. You can get it from his webpage/forums here: http://cplengineeringllc_bb.cplengineering...topic.php?t=300 (Registration Required) You may find that the new cobra is very twitchy at low speed. This was done to maintain control at Max speed. You can adjust the sensitivity of the controls by adjusting each individual nozzle's thrust strength. Simply open the data.ini and scroll down to the engines. Look for the nozzles labeled RCSPitchU, RCSPitchD, RCSRollR, ect. simply adjust them to your liking. I hope you have fun with this new Flight Model. I know I am. NOTE: If anyone is feeling adventurous. Applying this system to other helos is fairly simple. It took me only 10min to apply it to the Bell Model 47D. If you need some pointers I may be able to help.

Well now that many have had a chance to try the new model. Are there any comments on how it feels and how it might be improved?

I recently started tinkering with the Cobra's FM to make it act more realistically. The results were actually quite surprising so I decided to share. Don't expect miracles. I am no FM genius or anything. I was just tinkering. Here is what I came up with. First I attached Thrust Vectoring to the Stick's/Cyclic Pitch control. Ingame it will not let you assign TWO control functions to the same joystick axis. However this can be done by editing the Controls ".INI". Make a copy of your current Controls ".INI" and name whatever you want to. Open the copy with Notepad and look for these entries. PITCH_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_Y-AXIS <------Copy this AXIS to "THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL" YAW_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_Z-ROTATION ROLL_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_X-AXIS THROTTLE_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_U-AXIS THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL=JOYSTICK01_Y-AXIS <------Paste the "PITCH_CONTROL" AXIS here. [RangedControl008] AxisControl=THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL MaxValue=1000.000000 MinValue=0.000000 DeadZone=0.000000 Saturation=100.000000 ReverseJoystick=FALSE <------ I also changed this to "FALSE" MouseScale=1.000000 UseMouseRate=FALSE ReverseMouse=FALSE LimitValue=TRUE SelfCenterRate=0.000000 KeyControlRate=1.000000 AllowKeyControl=TRUE IncreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_UP DecreaseControl=THRUST_VECTOR_DOWN CenterControl= Save the ".INI" and exit notepad. Don't forget when you get back into the game to select this new ".INI" NOTE: This tweak may also help you fly the F-22 or any jet with similar Thrust Vectoring. I am using the AH-1W so I edited the "AH-1W_DATA.INI". Make a backup of your Cobra's data.ini so you can restore later if you want to. Open the ".INI" and locate the "Engines" Edit them to match my example below. What I changed is highlighted in BOLD. This will be our forward thrust engine. Increasing the thrust will give more forward speed. Unfortunately more thrust results in shaking and more difficult hovering. [Engine1] SystemType=JET_ENGINE InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL EngineID=1 HasAfterburner=FALSE SLThrustDry=90000.0 ThrustAngles=0.0,10.0,0.0 ThrustPosition=0.0,0.0,0.0 ThrottleRate=0.3 IdleThrottle=0.10 IdleRPM=0.01 IdleNozzle=0.90 CruiseThrottle=0.37 CruiseRPM=0.82 CruiseNozzle=0.25 MilThrottle=1.0 MilRPM=1.00 MilNozzle=0.25 MaxThrottle=0.78 MaxRPM=1.00 MaxNozzle=0.25 AltitudeTableNumData=10 AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0 AltitudeTableStartX=0.0 AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.744,0.557,0.423,0.326,0.277,0.054,0.025,0.000,0.000 DryMachTableNumData=4 DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4 DryMachTableStartX=0.0 DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.000,0.000 TSFCM0=0.6 TSFCM1=1.0 ThrustVectoring=FALSE ;ThrustVectorInputName=THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL ThrustVectorControlRate=2.0 ThrustVectorAnimationID= MaxVectoredPitchAngle=100.0 MinFuelFlow=0.01 ExhaustEmitterName= ExhaustPosition= AfterburnerEmitterName= AfterburnerEffectSize= FireSuppression=FALSE This will be our lift engine. Vectoring will be attached to the Cyclic and make controlling Pitch at low speeds much more responsive. [Engine2] SystemType=JET_ENGINE InputName=THROTTLE_CONTROL EngineID=2 HasAfterburner=FALSE SLThrustDry=90000.0 ThrustAngles=0.0,50.0,0.0 ThrustPosition=0.0,0.0,0.0 ThrottleRate=0.3 IdleThrottle=0.10 IdleRPM=0.01 IdleNozzle=0.90 CruiseThrottle=0.37 CruiseRPM=0.82 CruiseNozzle=0.25 MilThrottle=1.0 MilRPM=1.00 MilNozzle=0.25 MaxThrottle=0.78 MaxRPM=1.00 MaxNozzle=0.25 AltitudeTableNumData=10 AltitudeTableDeltaX=3048.0 AltitudeTableStartX=0.0 AltitudeTableData=1.000,0.744,0.557,0.423,0.326,0.277,0.054,0.025,0.000,0.000 DryMachTableNumData=4 DryMachTableDeltaX=0.4 DryMachTableStartX=0.0 DryMachTableData=1.000,0.980,1.000,0.000 TSFCM0=0.6 TSFCM1=1.0 ThrustVectoring=TRUE ;ThrustVectorInputName=THRUST_VECTOR_CONTROL ThrustVectorControlRate=2.0 ThrustVectorAnimationID= MaxVectoredPitchAngle=135.0 MinFuelFlow=0.01 ExhaustEmitterName=HarrierEngineEmitter <------Only add this to check if the thrust is being controlled in sync with your Cyclic. ExhaustPosition= AfterburnerEmitterName= AfterburnerEffectSize= FireSuppression=FALSE Thats all there is to it. Give it a try and let me know what you think. If someone has already done such a tweak sorry if I copied you. I did a search and did not see anything.

Ahh. I will look for it but I am pretty sure I did not touch it. I only edited the physical control surfaces and engines but just that might have done it. Do you remember exactly what the fix was? As in what values were edited? As for the rocket thing. The stock A-10A does the crazy sideways shooting too if you side slip enough. I guess it's a game thing. Anybody got a fix for it?

The helos are the latest release. What fix are you referring to? Rockets, Rotor, Pitching what? If it is rockets I may have broken something. I did heavily mod the data.ini.

Very true but looking at it and understanding what he did is far beyond me right know. I tried. I have also flown those helis and to be honest there are quite unstable inside the Falklands Mod. They won't fly straight no matter what. Always pitching Up and Down and Up and Down. Drives me crazy! No heli sim I have ever flown ever acted like those helis. I copied the A109-A into WOE and it actually flew just like my implementation. They must have done something in the Falklands Mod to make it more unstable in an efort to make it realistic. I think it is TOO unstable. As for the AI with my model. They seem to function ok once in the air. You can't tell my AI helis to take off because they pull back WAY TOO HARD, smack the tail and go BOOM! What I am experimenting with can probably be applied to any of the older helis with minimal effort because I understand how my implementation works. If Kreelin wanted to port his flight model to other helis, that would be cool. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. On a completely unrelated side note. With my new found maneuverability the physics engine in WOE is showing some abnormalities. Rockets seem only to soot in the direction the aircraft is actually traveling. With a heli you can achieve all kinds of CRAZY slip angles. Unfortunately the rockets don't go where the aircraft is facing. They go where the aircraft is actualy heading. It is quite odd to see a rocket launch to a 45 degree angle off your nose. Guns and grenades are unaffected but hitting things with rockets is now very difficult! Perhaps there is a fix for this? Anybody?

Quick update. I must have broken something somewhere in my typing/editing. I just copy pasted [Engine3] over from the original and edited PropDiameter=6.1. The main rotor works again. My Bad! You were right Stormtrooper. Thanks

Stormtrooper's fix here http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=32516&hl does not fix the rotor for me. As I said before, the rotor works IF AND ONLY IF the mission starts in the air but NOT if started from the runway. Starting in the air with default "PropDiameter=13.245" works just fine. The edit PropDiameter=6.1 does not work for me on the ground. Please does anyone else know a different solution? I got the OK to share the Flight Model. When we get the details worked out (and the main rotor working) it will be available on the creators websight here: http://cplengineeringllc.com/SFP1/ Sorry but you just have to wait. I know. I know. I HATE WAITING TOO!!! I could share now with an attached zip but I will do the right thing an go through the original creators websight.

The AI can not take off from the ground (usually crash) however they can support you if the mission is started in the air. I just tested a few missions and they did shoot and destroy targets.

As promised here is a quick video. The new flight model is simply amazing! I have asked permission to post it. Now I must wait for a response. What I have learned is probably applicable to any heli. It is just a matter of tweaking each model to fly like its real life counterpart. That is a job better suited to someone else. Anyway, here is hoping he gives the OK.

Yes Rambler you read right. All you need to do is edit the ".INI" to use the same AXIS for both Vectoring and Pitch. A great tip for the F-22 but read my big red text. I have come up with a completely different scheme that works FANTASTIC for helis! I am making a quick video now. On a related side note. I can not get the main rotor blades to visually turn. I have read you just need to edit the "PropDiameter" to equal "6.1" but that doesn't work for me. The blades turn if I start a mission in the air but if I start from the runway they won't turn. Any ideas?

Not sure how that link helps Silverbolt. Perhaps I missed something about editing there but thanks anyway. As for the Flight Model goes. I have it 100% working like a real Helicopter other than lack of Collective control. Throttle acts both as Collective and Throttle combined. Lack of separate collective makes the heli want to climb constantly while trying stop and come to a hover. The Cyclic works great! Pitch and role at any speed. Pitch forward to accelerate an pitch Back to slow. Fantastic! I don't know the characteristics of a real Cobra nor do I think I could fine tune the FM as such. However it now flies like a true heli should. Wait for the Video... I had to do heavy modding to the .INI so I must first ask permission to post it.

WAIT!!!! IGNORE MY TOP POST!!! I HAVE A NEW CYCLIC CONTROL METHOD IN THE WORKS! I borrowed it from the harrier. It allows very realistic cyclic movement at any speed! EVEN Okts FULL HOVER!!! Just wait I am still testing it. So far high froward speed still requires thrust vectoring but the cyclic will now respond at any speed! How can I edit the top post? I want to erase most of it but the edit button is gone. How can I fix it?

I am fairly new to this sim but I am starting to get the hang of configuring it. I am flying WOE. Unfortunately I can't solve my situation with MF's MiG-23s. I am using their "SFP1_WOV_WOE_Weapon_Pack_01_02_08" and the WOE Sep2008 patch. I have re-saved the "WEAPONDATA.INI" and all other plane's weapons work fairly well. I then suspected the LOADOUT.INI. Sure enough it was referencing AA-7R and their pack only has up to AA-7D. I then edited the loadout to carry AA-7Cs and still no luck. Ingame the "Loadout" "Stores Available" doesn't even show any AA-7(R-23/R-24) missiles available. I then checked the DATA.INI and the "WEAPON_STATION" do support "SAHM". I have also checked the service dates of both the plane and missiles. The AA-7C dates are 1978 to 0. I understand this to mean the missile doesn't go out of production ever. The Mig-23ML is from 1978 to 1990 and the Mig-23MLD is from 1984 to 1998. Even MF's own Pack and Planes don't match each other! I am stumped! As if that wasn't bad enough the Mig-23MLD's LOADOUT.INI references "Tank800_MiG23" which is not even included in their WepPack. I edited both the LOADOUT.ini and DATA.ini to the available "Tank790_MiG23" and the tank does add the extra fuel but it is not visible on the plane! AAHHH!!! These technicalities are whipping my butt! I must have missed something somewhere. Can someone please help me? Please?!?!? On a related side note. Shouldn't MF's 8-30-2008 WOI Only pack work with WOV and WOE with the Sep2008 patch? Am I using the correct WepPack for WOE?

Thanks for pointing me to those tank models and telling me to look in the stock ".INI". There is still a problem however. Those MIG23 fuel tank models are not the 790 model. They are in fact the missing 800 model. The stock "WEAPONDATA.INI" has entries for two different C and W "Tank800_MiG23". Both of which reference the "MIG23_FUELTANK_BODY". The MF WEAPONDATA.INI "Tank790_MiG23" entry is not calling for those models you highlighted in that screenshot. It IS calling for models that as far as I can tell don't exist. Also as far as I can tell the stock "WEAPONDATA.INI" inside the objects.cat does not have an entry for "Tank790_MiG23". I just checked. It seems the WepPack does not modify the objects.cat(I could be wrong). I don't see how your "WEAPONDATA.INI" inside the objects.cat has a "Tank790_MiG23". Perhaps the Sep2008 patch removes it? Anyway, as it stands the The MF WEAPONDATA.INI "Tank790_MiG23" entry is in someway incorrect. It either needs the 790 model it calls for or could be pointed to the Tank800 models in your screenshot. I have taken a simpler route for my multiplayer friends. I extracted "MIG23_FUELTANK_BODY.LOD" and renamed it to "Tank790_MiG23" as the ".INI" calls for. That way they can just copy my shared MiG-23s over without editing anything. Do you have an official solution for the Tank 790/800 debacle? Perhaps I missed it somewhere. As for multiplayer online, yes I know I need a stock install for regular use. The friends I am playing with are close friends and we are keeping our WOE install synchronized.

Yes Jarhead1 that did work. Thankyou. However you have highlighted yet another problem with MF's coordination between pack and planes. Their WEAPONDATA.INI references "ModelName=Tank790_MiG23" which they don't include a 3D model for in their pack. Their plane referenced "Tank800_MiG23" which isn't even included in the WepPack. Now that you have shared your "P" tank I simply renamed it to match the missing "Tank790_MiG23.lod" and dropped the ".LOD" and ".BMP" into the weapons folder. See I fly with friends in multiplayer and adding your tank means they too would have to edit their installs/INI for the new tank. It was already complicated enough getting our installs to match with just a few minor addons/mods. I want to keep things simple. With the file rename I can just share the fixed airplane without need to edit the .INI and re-save with editor. Much simpler. Thanks again.

Like I said, all the AA-7s needed was the "AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET" to become available. I didn't need "StationSpecificCode=AA-7". To be honest I am a little too new at this to know how to "pull a clean copy of the 23s" or to know what I would be looking for exactly. They are finally working so I am happy. As for the tank, in my first post is said I edited the LOADOUT.INI and DATA.INI so yes the "Tank790_MiG23" is already added to both. By default the Mig-23MLD [CenterFuselageStation] has "LoadLimit=760.0" and the tank only weighs 439kg. Once edited in it becomes available, selectable, and gives extra fuel but is completely invisible when flying ingame. As for the weapons editor, in my first post is stated I already re-saved the "WEAPONDATA.INI". If I had used the old editor I would have already fried the ".INI" and would expect way more problems than an invisible tank. Just to be safe I can verify by saying I am using "WeaponEditor_022008". Thats the right one correct? EDIT: In your example above the [CenterlineStation] has StationID=5 but your loadout has the tank on station7 "Loadout[07].WeaponType=Tank790_MiG23". How does that work? Ideas?

I skimmed through the TMF pak link you gave and throughly read the sections about the MiG-23s. I honestly did not see any points you stressed about fixing the droptanks that I did not already try. I already did the Tank790_MiG23 edit. As I said the tank is attached and adds fuel but is still invisible. I thought perhaps the pylon Position/Angles are off so I tried the values listed on your MiG-23s for the [CenterFuselageStation] but the tank is still invisible. I am still stumped! As for the lack of AA-7s. I found a fix myself just before reading your post. I was digging into other working Soviet aircraft and looking at their pylons and found the cure. In a couple of your aircraft specific guides you stated to "to use Soviet Weapons" "double check the AttachmentType= is set for "WP". This seems like an older method and only offers some of the Soviet Weapon Availability. The key to get the other Soviet Weapons is to make the AttachmentType=WP,SOVIET. The extra "SOVIET" addition added the R-23/R-24 missiles in the loadout screen for me. Thanks for trying to help but that is shed loads of reading and much of it was over my head. I am still looking for the invisible tank fix. Perhaps you or someone else could point out a specif method to enabling the Tank790_MiG23 on MF's stock "SFP1_Mig-23MLD_V1.0.exe". I should be able to work my way from there. Thanks

PM sent hope to hear from you soon!