RAF_Louvert

. HEE HAW! Fun thread WM, and I'm back just in time to claim my Royal Wedding moniker before the big event. I shall be Lord Lewis Bella Argonne, (it's true, the lane I grew up on in Minnesota was called 'Argonne Road' and it ran through an area that was plotted in the 1920's and named 'Argonne Woods' in honour of the famed WWI battle sight). Cheers! Lou .

. No Lewie, I think you did quite well in that very brief summary of a rather complex interplay of different forces as regards an aeroplane in flight. And yes, you may also have confused the discussion somewhat, but I don't know how you could avoid all confusion when getting into this discussion. It can get rather thorny trying to explain just how this all works together. Let me give a go at outlining what was happening when one of our WWI counterparts attempted to simply lift off in his trusty Camel: The engine is ticking over nicely, all warmed up and ready to go, so our brave flyer gives the Clerget full power and the Camel starts to move down field. Because it is quite tail heavy, the pilot is pushing forward on the stick to try and get the skid off the ground as soon as possible, and as he does so gyroscopic precession begins to take affect and twists the plane to the left, so the pilot applies right rudder to compensate. By now the kite leaves the field becasue of its large wing surface, even though it's air speed is still rather slow. The pilot at this point starts to ease back on the stick slightly which causes the bird to not only nose up but to twist instead towards the right, (again due to gyroscopic precession), so left rudder is applied. Also, the torque of that monsterous prop, (and a bit from the spinning engine), is now wanting to roll the Camel to the left, so the pilot must contend with that by giving a bit of opposite aileron input to correct for the roll. Unfortunately, right about now, (around 200' off the ground), the Clerget starts to get bucky because it needs the mixture readjusted slightly, and if our pilot is not familiar with the controls he has to duck his head into the cockpit long enough to locate the lever and fiddle with it, and in that amount of time the Camel has again started to roll to the left due to the pilot's preoccupation with the engine settings. At this point, due to the climb angle, and the roll, and the application of left rudder, there is a bit of yawing to the left as well, which in turn increases lift on the right wing tip while decreasing it on the left wing tip and accelerating the rate of roll, as well as causing gyroscopic precession to the pull the nose higher, and...if the pilot does not catch all of this mad cycle very quickly, he stalls and drops into a spin and his career as an RFC flyer is over. This whole process is made even more tricky by the small control surfaces the Camel was blessed with, (which provided less stability and feedback to the pilot), as well as it's lack of top wing dihedral, (which added further to it's twitchiness), and the aforementioned concentration of its mass at or near its center of gravity, (which allowed it to change attitudes very quickly with little effort). Suffice it to say, it could be a beast to fly because of all these things, but also a beauty. It really depended on the pilot. . Oh Crikey! Just realized I forgot to mention P-Factor as pointed out by Lewie. This would have been playing it's part in the above scenario as well until the tail skid got off the ground and sufficient forward speed was built up, requiring the pilot to give rudder input to compensate for that too. See, this can all get confusing even if you do have an idea of what the hell's going on. .

. Actually, it isn't just engine torque Olham, but 102" prop torque as well. And torque is not at all like the gyroscopic precession you've already mentioned. Torque is indeed the other factor I was looking for that, in the right hands, makes the Camel just that much more agile and lethal a fighter, and in the wrong hands makes it's own pilot dead just that much quicker. Your turn Sir. .

. Very good, B6313 was the one. But no Olham, not the blip switch, (though again, it is sort of related). I am actually looking for another dynamic force, one that can change with the RPM's. .

. Olham, you are spot on with your number one answer. You have two factors correctly ID in number two: that of gyroscopic precession; and the fact that the vast majority of the Camel's overall weight, (i.e. engine, petrol tank, guns and ammo, and pilot), were all located at or very near the aeroplane's center of gravity. However, while the Clerget's sensitive control mixture did contribute to many of the crashes at take-off, (beacuse at about 200 feet or so off the ground it had to be fiddled with, and the inexperienced pilot would look down into the cockpit to find the control, and thus was not noticing that gyroscopic precession was helping to push him into a nose-high left roll, which left unchecked for very long would cause the beast to stall and spin into the dirt), it was not precisely one of the major factors that allowed for the kite's fantastic agility in the hands of a veteran pilot, though it was interconnected in a lesser way with the third factor...hint, hint. You have everything correct in your number three answer, however you have not given the unit number of Barker's Camel. Very good Sir, keep trying. Lou .

. Olham, I bet I'm correct too. So, at your prompting Sir, here is the next P4 screenshot to work on. Considered by many to be the most successful fighter aeroplane of the Great War, answer the following questions about this fine kite: 1. What firm designed and built this aeroplane, and how did it get it's name? 2. What were the three critical factors involved that gave this kite its incredible agility when flown by a gifted pilot, as well as its deadly spin characteristics when flown improperly? 3. What was the unit number of the most famous single example of this aeroplane, who was the ace that flew her for almost one full year in combat, and how many victories were scored in this one kite alone, (the Great War record BTW). Good Luck! Lou .

. 1. That would be a Sopwith Pup of 66 Squadron, RFC, and it was piloted by 2Lt Patrick O'Brien. 2. The Sopwith Scout was given it's "Pup" nickname by it's pilots who considered it the "pup" of the two-seat Sopwith Strutter. 3. "Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out, 'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning!" (sung to the tune of "John Peel"). And here is that entire wonderful little ditty, entitled "We Haven't Got A Hope in the Morning": When you soar into the air on a Sopwith Scout, And you're scrapping with a Hun and your gun cuts out, Well, you stuff down your nose till your plugs fall out, 'Cos you haven't got a hope in the morning. Chorus For a batman woke me from my bed; I'd had a thick night and a very sore head, And I said to myself, to myself I said, "Oh, we haven't got a hope in the morning !" So I went to the sheds and examined my gun, Then, my engine I tried to run; And the revs that it gave were a thousand and one, 'Cos it hadn't got a hope in the morning. Chorus - We were escorting Twenty-two, Hadn't a notion what to do, So we shot down a Hun and an F.E. too, 'Cos they hadn't got a hope in the morning. Chorus - We went to Cambrai, all in vain, The F.E.'s said, "we must explain; Our cameras broke, we must do it again; Oh, we haven't got a hope in the morning!" Chorus - Great stuff, that. .

. Happy Easter to You and Yours! Here's wishing everyone the best of times with your families, your friends, and your faith. Remember all the miracles that abound each day throughout this wonderful old world. Lou .

. Dej, that is wonderful! Glad you were able to claim that book for your very own and at the low starting price. Plus, it won't have to travel too far to find you. Javito, that must be a new eBay listing, and nice to see that you've found it, (you were the next one on my list to start watching for a bargain-priced copy of HITEB). I see the seller will only ship to the US so that may keep the price down. However, while it is a very low starting number, it's unfortunate that someone has already bid on it. That usually results in a much higher final price. But I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Sir. .

. Carrick, I want you to know, I just had to clean coffee spit off my monitor because of you. .

. Very kind of you Mien Freund, but you go ahead with the next one. I will be out soon for the rest of the afternoon and most of the day tomorrow so I would not be available to monitor the answers. I can join back up later on in the game. .

. My pleasure to assist you Olham. You are quite right I am sure on the plane type and on the fact that MvR did not score any victories with the DVa variant, but rather with his three DV's; numbers 1177/17, 2059/17, and 4693/17. As to that rod in the upper left of the cockpit, it is an auxiliary throttle control rod, and was to be used in the event that the throttle lever on the port side of the control column failed. My understanding as to how the rod worked is that you pushed it forward until it engaged the throttle plate arm on the top of the carb, at which point it would allow you to control the throttle. .

. Jim and Olham, you will find Biddle's book in set #3 of my WWI books downloads in the OFF DL section. Hellshade: wrong, wrong, and wrong. Alex, pick me, pick MEEEEEEE! .

. OOO, OOO, I know, I know. Can I go again, Mr. Trebek? .

. Outstanding! Spot on with all three Jim. And just as a sidebar: Biddle's book, "The Way of the Eagle", is in my top handful of favorites of the genre. Right up there with AGL's "No Parachute", and Lewis' "Sagittarius Rising". The next one is yours, JFM. .

. Just read through this thread and saw the pictures. Now I need a cigarette.... "So my little Hydro Cooler, was it good for you to ma chéri ?" .

. Alrighty then, here is the photo: And here are your questions: 1. Who was the manufacturing/design firm of the aeroplane shown, and which model is it? 2. What was the Pfalz-built version of this aeroplane called, and what were it's primary differences? 3. Who was the American ace that forced down one of these intact on 16 August 1918, and what unit was he assigned to at the time? Best of Luck. Lou .

. Creaghorn, that is P4 screenshot #5 showing a detail of the new Airco DH-2, and here are your answers: 1. James McCudden 2. Manfred von Richthofen, on December 27, 1916 3. The Brits tried the pusher configuration in order to get a forward-firing machine gun system that would counter the Fokker Scourge, (as the Allies did not make use of an interrupter gear at this time). Cheers! Lou .

. So, our Herr Olham has made a blunder, eh? Then let me try this again... Woo Hoo! Birthday party! Who has the cricket bat? MD gets one whack for each year! Happy Birthday Mike. All the best Sir. Now then, where is our German friend of the Albatros pursuasion? I believe a couple of well-placed whacks of the cricket bat upon his person are in order as well. Lou .

. Hmmm, so I need to take it up a notch further if I want to get full credit? Alright...I will now give the answer again, striking myself repeatedly in the head with blunt instruments, whilst crooning... "Only make believe I love you...OWW! OUCH! It's full name is 'elevator trim control quadrant'...Only make believe that you love me...UGH! UMMF! It's function would be to adjust the neutral angle of incidence of the elevator once in flight...Others find peace of mind in pretending..." .

. Woo Hoo! Birthday party! Who has the cricket bat? WM gets one whack for each year! Happy Birthday Simon. All the best Sir. Lou .

. hee, hee...Lima, I have read both of these before, and they make me chuckle still. Thanks for sharing. Cheers! Lou .

. Well Shredder, in this application, I should think it's full name would be something like 'elevator trim control quadrant', and it's function would be to adjust the neutral angle of incidence of the elevator once in flight, in order to compensate for the DH-2's inherent tail-heavy attitude. .

. Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our four...no... Amongst our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again. .

. Shredder, as Olham noted way back in post #20, that is the elevator trim lever and quadrant on the starboard side of the DH-2 cockpit, (it is very clearly illustrated in Windsock Data File 48). Lou .