Winder

OBD has outdone themselves yet again with this latest Superpatch. The new look and feel of the menus is spot on for making the sim feel even more immersive and getting me excited and in the mood to do some WWI dogfighting. I absolutely LOVE the look! The new air field clutter and extra details make home base feel even more alive instead of just a place to take off from too.

 

The flak sounds are perfect. Flying over enemy lines, the flak burst sounds (and visuals!) really makes me feel like I am flying over a war. I can already attest to the fact that the AA fire has become more accurate. As I flew along straight and level admiring the new scenery and terrain details, archie was hard at work getting a bead on me. My triplane took a direct hit and was turned into a bi-plane instantly. Ha. No hard feelings, archie.

 

The sim is definately more fluid, without any stutter even when the skies are full of a/c and the colors appear more vivid. The Air Start button for faster campaigns is a wonderful idea. We can't all fly DiD standard due to time restrictions so before alot of us were QC junkies just due to time constraints alone. The Air Start option, being able to be chosen on the fly during the Briefing is an outstanding solution to getting everyone into the campaign. Now the excitement and variety of the campaign is open to everyone.

 

While I have always thought OBD patches were excellent in terms of both game improvement and additional content, I must say this Superpatch is the best patch yet. I feel like I'm flying OFF BHaH V3.5. With new flyable planes, completely integrated into the campaign, also on the way it's like Christmas in August. Wonderful, wonderful work OBD! Thank you.

 

Hellshade

You are most welcome - more coming in the next month or so...craft packs will be a focal point.

WM

Winder,

 

You got me all wrong in the first place. I don't waggle my rudder madly back and forth, it is calculated and cool as I can be when I'm about to fly into the ground. I DO apply opposite rudder only, and not left, right, left, right. I only swap them over when your rotational direction alters. I find the Sopwith 1 1/2 strutter a good example of this. If you're climbing as hard as you can in her, keeping her just above stall speed, when she does go, she will wallow to the left, then right, then left etc until her speed comes up again. I apply opposite rudder each cycle, and the amount that she yaws left and right gradually lessens, and her speed increases, and you're OK.

 

uncleal,

 

If you had read the thread, you'd find out that Les Holden did not fly an all red SE5a to "pretend" he was as good as the Rittmeister, nor to mock him. He was a combat instructor, not a flight instructor. He taught rookies how to fight aerial combat and needed a brightly coloured aircraft so that he was more visible to the rookies, and to distinguish himself as an eenemy, and not part of their flight. It was primarily so they didn't crash into him.

My response was to the thread starter BuB so maybe just relax - if you know how to get out of a spin that's fine but consider that the thread starter BuB does not?

As usual YMMV but I am not trying to help you I am trying to help BuB.

WM

Quite a few planes in OFF do a tail-low, nose-high spin. Almost all the others will still fall out of the sky vertically tail-low, nose-high, even if they don't spin while doing it. Prior to the superpatch, the Spad XIII was the easiest to make spin this way, but that might now have changed--haven't had time to check.

 

The cause of this seems to be a "hole" in the flight model where a lot of the normal aerodynamic forces suddenly disappear. For instance, despite the plane falling vertically and accelerating due to gravity, the wind coming up from below appears to have no effect, not even to weathervane the plane into a nose-down attitude. My theory here is that because you're falling tail-low, you're effectively going in reverse, and the FM just doesn't know how to deal with that--airplanes usually don't move backwards. Anyway, aileron and rudder are pretty much useless, but fortunately the elevators still work OK, although at reduced efficiency. You enter this "hole" in the flight model when you're very, very slow in a slightly nose-high attitude. If you enter a spin just before falling into the "hole", the spin will continue, apparently under your angular momentum, and seemingly ignoring the way the wind is blowing by your plane up from under your tail.

 

This all sounds pretty bad, but it's actually fairly easy to get out of. All you have to do is get out of the "hole". Once you do that, your plane suddenly assumes a proper attitude and your controls start to work again. And the key attribute for being in the "hole" is having your nose high.

 

Therefore, your FIRST priority MUST be to get the nose down. Once you do that, things go back to normal. If you're spinning, just ignore that for the moment.

 

So, #1, apply full power and full DOWN elevator. The more power you use, the more elevator authority you have. Again, this points to a "hole" in the FM, because it's like the only wind blowing by your elevator is coming from your prop. If the wind coming up from below was being considered, down elevator should actually make your nose go higher because you're moving in reverse. But trust me, DOWN elevator is what works here.

 

Once you get the nose below the horizon, you're home free. The FM starts working again, and the spin usually stops automatically. What appears to happen is that all your reverse airspeed which you gained while accelerating downwards under gravity tail-low, was all ignored by the FM. But once the nose is down, this suddenly switches to being regular forward airspeed, which the FM knows how to handle. Odds are, by the time you get the nose down, your vertical speed will be well above your stall speed. This stops the spin because 1 wing has to be stalled for a spin to continue. If for some reason you're still spinning at this point, the usual opposite control routine works, because suddenly the aileron and rudder are functional again.

 

It's a very abrupt transition from falling helplessly tail-first to flying and maneuvering normally in a forward direction. You'll see 0 airspeed and your aileron and rudder are useless, and then BOOM, you're doing 60 knots with full control like it never happened.

 

Once you get the hang of getting the nose down quickly, you'll find that you lose only a few dozen feet of altitude in one of these tail-low falls. And because you can get out of them easily and with no lingering ill effects, you'll be tempted to exploit the "hole" in the FM to your advantage. No pursuer can follow you through this process, and you can switch direction very quickly doing this to attack somebody else or turn the tables on your pursuer. I don't recommend doing this, however, because IMHO it's cheating (and don't get me started on folks in MMOFS games exploiting similar FM "holes" in other games). So when I fly, I try hard to avoid getting into this situation and if it does happen, I try to disengage from the fight so as not to "cheat".

 

Unfortuantely, the AI never seems to get the hang of recoverying from a tail-first fall. I've seen dozens of Albatri stall at 500-1000 feet and fall straight down without spinning, all the while with their noses pointed up about 30-45^. They just fall faster and faster, accelerating under gravity, but with apparently zero aerodynamics involved.

Yes we are aware that the AI sometimes pull up too steeply and do not recover from a tail slide - whereas the player can.

It varies from craft to craft they are better in the craft in the later war years..

It was quite bad in the N11 but we have improved the AI handling of N11 recently and it was patched a few versions back

I don't believe there is a combat sim out there without AI foibles (Il-2 and yes I have ROF too) but we are working steadily on new AI code for P4.

But we believe OFF offers a good balance of play - Campaign, Graphics, FM, DM and AI for an immersive WW1 experience and that is and will remain our goal - balance.

Perfect? ....not possible yet.... we are playing on a PC with finite GPU and CPU.

WM

I suppose you people have seen this type of thread many times. I know I have. The sim won't recognize my CFS3 disc anymore. All I did since last time was to remove the CFS3 disc to play another game (Arma II - great BTW). So today I thought I'd get back in the air. I installed v 1.32 and then the mini patch 1.32a, looked at the new interface (nice!).

 

Now it won't run at all. I thought I might be able to get by with just a CFS3 reset in Workshop, but sadly that didn't fix it. I only had Lt Test Pilot as an active pilot, so I didn't mind losing all my pilots (they had all previously "gone west"). Really didn't even mind having to tweak it up again. Thought it would be good to start from scratch and tweak one thing at a time and monitor my FPS rate.

 

I have seen everyone saying how good the new patch is, and no-one complaining that it killed their sim, so I guess it's just me. Is there any more quick fixes I can try before I am forced to uninstall/reinstall?

 

IF I do need to uninstall/reinstall (first time BTW, though I did a fresh install on this new computer), where do the little files hide that I need to completely remove? You know the ones...you use the uninstall feature, but some files linger around to harrass you and prevent a successful installation.

Very strange - yes we have been testing this patch for quite a while now with no install issues and we note many are up and running too.

I would do the Add/Remove in Control Panel - then delete OBDSoftware folder and all sub folders.

Then install from DVD , patch to 1.32 then mini patch

PCs are weird things...

WM

I have one question: how do I get access to my 'old' missions. The 'missions' button seems to be gone; there only is the 'scenario' button. Do I have to move my missions into the 'scenarios' subfolder within the mission folder? Or is there a way to access the missions separately?

As per the help button ... move them and also put them in the correct \nation subfolder.

WM

 

 

Winder,

 

HOLD the rudder??? OK, that's not what I've been doing in any stall. I was of the opinion that you swap it over if, say for instance, you are in a "falling leaf" type of situation where you oscillate from spinning one way then the other. Interesting. Hopefully, I'll never have to use it (I know I'll be using it soon - sigh).

 

Broadside,

 

I don't know the answer to that. I'm guessing it individualised the aircraft, and therefore was not "uniform" and therefore, not "service-like". We all know how the Germans respected and promoted their Aces (in the media I mean), and allowed them some measure of slack, and hence the ability to individualise one's aircraft...hell, they even allowed them to use those new-fangled parachute things. Just not cricket, wot? I heard somewhere (it may be just a rumour or a story) that Richthofen was ordered to paint his Jasta's aircraft "different colours" (meaning I guess to camoflage them in browns and greens etc), and he took it to the extreme.

 

I understand the reasoning behind the (dare I say it?) GAILY coloured aircraft (OK guys...get off my back. Gay meant something different way back then). Easy to recognise who shot down who, who saved your ass, who to look at for signals/directions etc. Erich Hartmann, the highest scoring ace of all time, painted a black tulip design on the nose of his Messerschmitt, and eventually, the Russians would understandably avoid this aircraft at all costs. This prompted him to lend it to a rookie every now and then. This may save the rookie's life, and allow Hartmann further opportunities to add to his VERY impressive tally (352 aircraft over a year and a half for a 22 yo...not a bad effort).

 

There were of course, instances of aircraft being named (Little named his "Blymp" after the nickname he gave his son, and he had previously flown "Maud" [or was it "Lady Maud"?]). Collishaw's flight were named as well, but that's hardly what you're asking here. Maybe shredward knows.

 

There was an Australian (Les Holden) who flew an all-red SE5a...(see above - hope Cam doesn't mind me posting that here)

 

"Captain L.H. Holden was a fighting instructor for No.6 Training Squadron Australian Flying Corps. The fighting instructors conducted dogfights against the cadets so they had training in the modern fighting tactics. The instructors found it tiring, as cadets are less predictable than the experienced German pilots they faced on the Western Front - the instructors were constantly in danger of being flown into. As a result they painted their aircraft bright colours so they could be easily seen."

 

Australian Flying Corps highest scoring Ace, A H Cobby had a large cariacature of Charlie Chaplin on the side of his aircraft.

 

Collishaw's flight flew all black tripes. I can't think of any more instances off hand.

Hold the rudder to opposite direction of spin - do not frantically move it from one side to the other if it does not respond immediately (many people do just this) - keep cool...

If spin direction does change then of course you have to change direction... the trick is to hold rudder to opposite direction of spin - practice it take the Camel up and give it a go.

HTH

WM

That was exactly my point, what's to become of the Scramble Mission. I was relieved when I couldn't find it . .

If you do decide to select air start on a scramble mission you simply start nearer the enemy in the air... no difference.

The reason its in the briefing room is that the user can decide when he needs to use it - on the fly..

If you hate the idea.... then don't (do not) tick the box - some people asked for it and so we have provided it for folks that want it.

And we did it for P3 and not have everyone wait for P4.

HTH

WM

You give me the idea of us OFF fliers maybe sending a little wav file of ourselves and that be mixed/ combined to provide the din during briefings. Probably stupid, maybe too much trouble. Just a thought, but you are right. Sounds like a resteraunt with females in the mix.

It was a development placeholder that never got revisited (so much to do so little time situation) and yes if you turn the volume up you will hear that its a school hall - but yes all sounds are user changeable in:

CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields\campaigns\CampaignData\ShellMusic

HTH

WM

Ah yeah, I should have mentioned that I was talking about the new "campaign air start" feature that was added in the latest patch. Sorry for the confusion there.

 

Anyway, its a nice feature to have although, like many here, I prefer to go ahead and take-off manually for most missions like before.

 

I did just do a Airfield Defense mission and opting for an Air Start did place me and my jasta mates right into the heat of action, so that was cool!

 

By the way, I REALLY like the new Damage Model as well. While I never had a problem seeing damage on my own plane (more so than I would have preferred), I definitely notice an increase in visible damage now more in line with what one would expect. Seems the basic bullet damage *decals* appear more often now so you can ID damage to your own craft (and others) easier than before.

 

Very impressive!

 

Madmatt

 

p.s. Thanks HPW, when I get back from vacation (going to the Caribbean!) I will have a look at that sound and see what I can whip up for everyone.

Pleased you found it!

Guys all the new 'invincible' and 'air start' options are on the fly tick boxes - there will not be settings in the workshops for these as it something that you select as you feel it and depending on time pressures for that flight or if you want to simply practice - so no need to go to workshops or pilot dossiers to change your pilot... you can make the decision just before you click Fly!!

Finally if you do select invincible the flight is never logged - ever.

Cheers

WM

I just lost my favorite pilot (again) trying to take out a flight of two seaters. Flying a sop. camel, I dove under pulled up and fired as loong a burst as I could before the plane got his gunner into firing position. Got him smoking after a while, but was shot up pretty good, then I go into a crazy spin, like a top:

tail down, wings and prop up, spinning clockwise.

I tried everything to recover but couldnt: cut gas, cut engine, restart engine, full gas, full rudder both ways.

Is there any way out of a spin like this?

 

This isnt the first time I've spun like that in a camel...it happens now and then, but I never recover.

Its easy to recover if you use the standard procedure:

1) You must chop the throttle.

2) Apply opposite aileron and rudder and HOLD it do not oscillate it every few seconds.

You will exit the spin after about two to three turns - if you have no height .... well thats it.

Sometimes on chopping the throttle the engine may die (rotary) and you may need to restart - exhilarating experience.

Winston - I will get to look at MP as promised - no need to come across so negative all the time after all there is always ROF as an alternative... so life is good?

WM

??

I went to bed....

Its a hotfix so no version change... its about 288kb.

HTH

WM

I'm not so vain to think Winder did it for me. But in a thread "what would you like to see?" I had said that I would like to see people, crewmen etc, and to have buildings you can enter and see/do things in there. The new patch gives us that now at least to a degree and it is one of those immersion things that I appreciate. I'm rather glad to be the first to report it. Thanks so much Winder. It may be a somewhat minor aspect of the new patch but it took a lot of work and time and is very good.

Well there is capacity in the game for a lot more immersive details like this - yes just takes time - pleased u are enjoying it.

Cheers

WM

Guys,

Sadly there is a small/ minor glitch in the Matrix but rather than recall the super patch I have prepared a mini hotfix - and we wanted to avoid this although I guess its inevitability - but maybe I did not expect to do this so soon lol.

What we will be doing from now on then is maintaining only one hotfix patch that will have to be installed on top of the main Super Patch i.e 1.32.

We will update this hotfix as required from now on.

You will thus never need more than the OFF BH&H DVD, Super Patch 1.32..... and the latest hotfix (fixes a missing winter terrain tile that fortunately is outside of the main OFF arena).

It will be up shortly.

WM

I've been flying for all sides in the flat lands, and looking for a squadron (Germany, Britain, or France) that is flying in the forested and hilly regions that will stay in those areas. I found a Sopwith Strutter squad that was South of Nancy I believe but looking to fly in a scout squad. I know many of you have been there. What are your recommendations? Thank you

When you select a squad the location is shown on the map.

The hilliest region is Alsace - Eastern most region next to Switzerland and then Verdun.

Marne and Somme are relatively flat.

Hun Scout Squad in Alsace: Jasta 14

Allied Scout Squad in Alsace : Esc 49 (French)

To name but one of each.

You can simply scroll through the squads and the location is always displayed on the map.

HTH

WM

In the texture info setting of the graphics menu, there is an option for

"Water Detail Texture Size:"

I have mine set to 3 as per HBs setup.

 

What does this do? Would putting it up a few notches give better

water reflections, texture, etc?

 

BuB

Shaders in CFS3 are DX7.0 so nothing changes that.

Water Detail texture size affects the scale/size of the 'waves'

HTH

WM

I reverted back to my old drivers, 18- something, as I too found the 190.38 to be crap. I did this with a system restore, and although it's better, it is not perfect. I get slowdowns in combat that I never had before, and more CTD's.

I'm assuming this might be due to residual data from the 190.38 drivers. does anyone know of a good FREE driver cleaner?

Your best bet is to go add/remove and remove the Nvidia Drivers - reboot - you will end up with a crappy VGA display res etc and ignore the windows auto detect on your card.

Then install the driver version that you want.

OFF is very stable and should not CTD nor slowdown FPS wise.

HTH

WM

I've decided to try different graphics drivers to get better results in OFF.

Which nvidia driver seems to work the best for you?

 

Also, when you target your nvidia control panel to "select a program to customize", which exe do you target? offmanager.exe or cfs3.exe?

 

Thanks!

 

BuB

I normally set up the global Nvidia settings to what suits OFF, and then only make exe profiles (if needed) for other apps.

So far I have never had to make a customised rule set for a specific exe but I have a limited range of 3D apps and most are Combat flight sims that all require 16x AA and Aniso.

HTH

WM

I reverted back to the 181.22 drivers I had before the 190.38s, and with 16xAA and 16x Aniso and multisampling, 6 pre rendered frames, clamped texture filtering and high quality texture filtering, FPS are pretty good and solid at around 40+, image is clear, with only a hint of shimmering in trees at certain altitudes.

Wondering about newer drivers...nHancer, or specific graphic settings to get NO shimmering (I am not sure that's even possible with so much detail in OFF).

I think I'm about to call it excellent enough. :)

any other specifics in your graphics setup Winder?

I am pleased you are sorted - the only thing that will improve it from there is SuperSampling but that is quite an FPS hit depending on how many spare frames you have of course.

Yes there is something amiss with the 190.38 - there are quite a few users who have now rolled back and all is well with earlier versions.

Hopefully Nvidia will sort this out.

If you want a 'cleaner' picture than what you are seeing now (and really compared to ROF OFF is crystal), then its ATI I am afraid.

But there are issues with ATI (or there were issues on my ATI 9800Pro) with reflections - for example instrument dial glass and mirrors did not work -with ATI drivers.

Pol and I wil be testing a new ATI card soon to see if that has been sorted since the ATI 9800Pro days (some time back lol).

WM

I changed the settings to 8x AA and 16x AF and got less shimmering, but it's still there.

Has anyone got OFF working with no shimmering/swimming landscape?

AA And Aniso is not working with OFF on some rigs with 190.38 - no matter how many reboots you do.

I had to roll back to 182.something.

With 182 16xAA and 16x Aniso and Multisampling the image is crisp and clear and no shimmering all the way to the horizon.

Badgerboy set AA to 4x or 8x in CFS3 config - whatever is max on your rig.

To do this go workshops, Graphics Config, File Change display options and the AA is a setting below the screen res.

Then set up whatever you want in your GPU config ensuring that you have overrides application on.

HTH

WM

I could be very wrong here, but I think the Germain air superiority in 1917 which peaked in Bloody April wasn't numerical supremacy in the air, but more like numerical supremacy in kills. The German pilots and especially aircraft were better, with most allied aircraft being obsolete. Sopwith Camels, Se5a's, Spads and Brisfits won the advantage back in late 1917, but I think the allies were always superior in numbers. Happy to be corrected in this. I'm not that well read on WW1. I've read it somewhere, but couldn't tell you where...

 

Even in the dark days of German superiority, I seem to recall reading somewhere the losses never prevented the allied air forces from fulfilling their overall objectives -successful up to date reconnaissance, bombing raids etc. Indeed, the first official 'close air support' sorties flown by the RFC were flown in May 1917 during the Arrass offensive. The German Jastas were typically deployed in defensive rolls, and while successful in that roll for periods, they could never sieze the offensive initiative and take the war to the allies. In brutal arithmetic, the allies could sustain their losses, whereas a blockaded Germany couldn't afford them to anything like the same extent.

The OOB does not really specify 'numbers', but aggressiveness, effectiveness, morale and whether on offensive defensive or neutral.

I am simplifying things a lot in my description I guess because the code is extensive and complex.

The main issue we really have is that we are lacking CPU and GPU to effectively put the war into the perspective we require - but it will change.

What we have here is not a canned campaign and that is all I am trying to emphasise.

HTH

WM

Olham thanks looks good but date is exceedingly important as the supremeacy and frequency of flights and density thereof of the opponents changes over time (OOB).

So to put this in context one must know the month and year... may I suggest:

1914; 1915 ; 1916 (1st half) 1;916 (2nd half) ; 1917 (1st half); 1917 (2nd half); 1918 (up til April) ;1918 (Post April)

Bloody April for an example is tough for the Brits and easeir for the Hun.

But lets examine that statement.

This does not necesarrily mean that if you are flying Hun during Bloody April in '16 that you will easily make 17 hours and make lots of kills and the reason is simple - attrition always happens no matter the time period and you can easily become a statistic even in the easiest time periods.

Balance therefore in the OOB means average over the two opposing sides - the player in OFF is but one member of the side he fights for.

OFF is not about the player winning the war - it will never happen that way.

Yes pick your fights and engage only when odds are in your favour - without using TAC - and you will fly longer live longer no matter what period or location or nationality of your pilot. In a nutshell self preservation is the key.

HTH

WM

I understand your thought, Dej, but on the other hand, you might want to meet MvR, and you could.

I like that as it is - rather historical.

Yes you can and do meet MvR as the system stands right now if you are near his squad/field range...and he is historically still alive i.e up til XX April 1918. 21st? cannot recall

HTH

WM

Or one could state without trying to use diplomacy, 'When most of the Developers are born in the fatherland, things might be different, until then live with it' . .

I will say this once and for all there is no bias in OFF other than the historcally based aspect of the OOB in terms of air activity and supremacy at the period of time of the mission.

Ditto any feelings of uber craft etc - we just dont approach the sim this way at all - we are too factually biased for this and by now I would hope that is clearly evident in OFF.

Our team is about 50/50 Crumpet and Hun and yeah that includes our leading Hun supporter.... OVS he counts for 3 Crumpet fans I think with his sheer fanaticism of Hun craft.

HTH

WM

This is a problem with the way the missions are written. Fly for the Allies and you'll see the same thing. You'll be outnumbered there as well. It just doesn't make sense to create adversaries in these quantities. Mostly, I just run away.

This should not be happening all the time based on the system function - it may happen and I guess could happen for a spell of missions based on random events within the system context and this is actually a good thing.

It might be worth starting a poll - are you always outnumbered in missions....

Yes running away if outnumbered is alwasy a good plan - one needs to pursue self preservation if you want to acheive 17 hours - pick your fights well and if at a disadvantage bug out!

I remember with my longest surviving Pilot in RB3d I followed this action plan carefully and often theer were enemies approaching that outnumbered me or my flight and we would not engage....

But clearly we are all seeing different things as even in this post the response varies from yes I am always outnumbered to no I am not so from that POV the system is working well.

I'll keep an eye on this issue nothing is ever perfect and war certainly is not either.

WM

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Winder. I was worried when you said it was your ultimate goal... or at least I read it that way.

No sorry the ultimate goal is to have enough CPU/GPU power to generate flights in the whole theatre in keeping with ethe actual scale of events in WW1 - then I will be happy.

The system is powerful and can grow in effectiveness (sheer weight of air activity) or down to micro management on a per day basis.

WM