Hellshade

There is also the option of uninstalling the patch and putting 1.30c back on which will put you right back to the game you loved, Sir. Hellshade

I guess this means that somebody is "outta here". As for the rest of us, thanks. Great work as always. and No, Olham. You should just be able to install the game, the superpatch and then 1.32C minipatch according to Winders explanation of patches. Hellshade

No need, please. 1. If the campaign is too hard, use workshop settings to reduce AI gun skill, etc to make it easier or else fly Missions or QC to get your skills up. 2. If you are out numbered, running away is a tactical option that the real pilots and Aces employed to fight another day (except maybe Voss) 3. The latest patch (OFF 3.5 as I call it) is fabulous. It's like a whole new game. There's plenty for me to do to keep me happy with a ton of options. Thank you for all of them. 4. You have a plane pak to finish, P4 to build and (last time you looked) families and jobs to attend to. You have enough on your plate. 1.32C is outstanding as is. Please know that IMHO and in the opinion of many others, you folks have crafted the finest, most historically accurate and option laden WWI flight sim ever developed. You may certainly move forward on other projects knowing that nothing is perfect, but nothing else comes close either. Hellshade

No sweat. For what it's worth, the autopilot is funky. That's a valid criticism of OFF in it's current form. I'm sure if it can be changed, OBD will address it either in a future patch or in P4. As great as OFF is, it's never going to be perfect and there's three basic things I try to keep in mind when I come across stuff that isn't my interpretation of what it should be like (and thus might make me frustrated). 1. It takes time to make improvements on software, and these guys are adding patches, creating a plane add on pak and developing P4 all in their spare time. They are humans, not Genies or Borg. 2. Not all improvements will come in the order of importance that we would like them too, but that doesn't mean the Devs aren't concerned or trying to make it better. 3. Maybe I'm staying up too late or just already had a bad day or week and that's causing me to blow something way out of proportion with the game. I'm human too, just like the folks at OBD. Sometimes I need to just walk away and do something else for awhile so I can come back and see things in a more reasonable perspective. Thanks for everything you do for the community Homeboy. Your contributions are greatly appreciated and it takes a mature adult to apologize for their behavior. For those who say to "never apologize for what you are thinking", well...I guess they are saying that they are never, ever wrong. Kinda tells me something about them right there. Hellshade

That seems like a reasonable suggestion. Perhaps the Devs could, if they so choose, put up a seperate link to "previous patchs" that are not required if you plan to install the Super patch. I personally save every patch into a directory called OFF Patches (oddly enough) so that if I ever have to re-install, they are all right there for my use. Hellshade

Someone made a post about how they aren't pleased with the patches and feel they are ruining their experience of the game. By all means, he has every right to his opinion and I respect it completely. But that just made me realize yet one more thing about Over Flanders Fields Between Heaven and Hell that makes me enjoy it more than the business model of another flight sim that shall not be named. In OFF, you can simply choose to install only the version of patches that you enjoy or none at all, if you so choose. In the sim that shall not be named, you are forced to patch up to that devs latest patch version before you are even allowed to play, even if you don't want or like the "improvements" they have offered. A bad patch there can ruin your enjoyment of the game completely. A patch you don't agree with in OFF simply need not be installed and you can enjoy it as you always have. Yet again, the foresight and flexibility of OFF BHaH serves it's customers well. If the latest patch isn't for you, just don't use it. That option just doesn't exist in a different business model. Thanks OBD. Great job as always. Hellshade By the way, if the Devs feel this particular thread might incite a flamewar, please remove it. You won't hurt my feelings a bit as I have no desire to cause one. I just wanted to point out something that I felt was of benefit to all OFF customers.

I'm sorry, but the more I re-read Winstons post, the less sense it makes. If you don't like the patchs (updates, enhancements, whatever) then simply don't install them. The latest superpatch has recieved overwhelming positive responses, along with every other patch that has been put out by OBD. But if for any reason you don't like them, just don't install them. The answer is child-like in it's simplicity. If OBD required you to install the patches in order to play the game, then frustration with patches you didn't like would make perfect sense, but that isn't the case here at all. The fact that this monumentally simple answer to the rather vague criticisms of patches such as "fixing things that don't need to be fixed" kinda makes me wonder at the real intention of the post. Seriously, if you don't like the patches, nobody is forcing you to install them. There are some valid criticisms of OFF that can be frustrating, like the autopilot issue. Yep, it's annoying, although now with the option to start "in the air" near your target it's not as much of an issue as it once was, thankfully. Believe me, I get that OFF isn't perfect, just like the Devs do. But this is one complaint that literally makes no sense to me at all. Why discourage a developer from improving their product with optional updates you don't need to install? Again, to me it begs the question of the intent of the post. Sorry Winston, but it doesn't add up. Hellshade

Hate to say it but rock solid 60 FPS here. Runs faster and smoother than ever, but I also did a complete wipe and reload of my PC for other reasons. Hellshade

They fight to win, or at least to survive...don't they? In my original review when OFF BHaH first came out I posted that I wasn't suprised that I found myself fighting for my life in this sim. What amazed me was, looking out into the sky, I could see other men desperately fighting for their lives as well. Your post is but one example of how OBD weaves that incredible illusion so masterfully. Hellshade

Then install the sim fresh and don't patch. Does it get any simpler? Seriously. How would that solution not solve every single complaint that you have? Hellshade

If you lost 2 pilots to AA when they were attacking a balloon, thats about as dangerous a duty in the air as there is, short of attacking an airfield. Balloons = observation which helps the enemy direct artillery fire and even check for changes in enemy strength and position. All that kind of stuff being extremely important to helping win the war, both sides usually put a very nasty amount of AA protection around their balloons to discourage exactly the kind of attacks you were making. If you flew in without jinking your plane around so you could get a bead on the balloon, then you just made it that much easier for AA to peg you too. Besides, the enemy below knows the height of their balloon which makes determining your height relative to their observation balloon that much easier. It's all working against you on a balloon attack. War is hell precisely because it isn't fair. May I suggest the PND (Pilot Never Dies) option that was so thoughtfully put forth by Broadside earlier in another post. As for the EIIIs, I couldn't say really because I rarely fly that early in the war. I'm a 1917 - 1918 kinda guy myself. Anyways, sorry to hear of your AI troubles with both games. Hellshade

Well said BuB. I think the PND is an excellent concept upon which to experience more of OFF. I'm quite sure I will try it. That said, I believe the DiD standard also offers certain experiences - namely fear, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat (if I may steal that phrase) more intensely because of the genuine fear of loss. With DiD, the highs are higher and the lows are lower but with PND the variety is wider. If I can, I think I should make one of each type of pilot. The real beauty of it all of course is how those clever Devs gave us the ability to do both and anything in between. Now that's a sim you gotta love. Hellshade

I respectfully disagree. While a ground gunner and MvR not following his own rules may have been the cause of his death (as opposed to a certain Canadian pilot), please remember that he WAS shot down after recieving a bullet wound to the head from an enemey aircraft earlier in his career. He suffered migraines for the rest of his short life as a result of the wound and there is ample speculation that the wound itself contributed to MvR forgetting to follow his own rules of flying too close to the front lines. None of this detracts from his spectacular ability to choose targets who were most vulnerable to his excellent gunnery skills, or his wisdom of knowing when to avoid a fight he couldn't win. It was often noted that he was merely an average flyer (as opposed to someone like Voss who appeared to be a master at air combat manuevers), but an excellent shot and a good judge of when to engage. An awful lot happens in war though and it is impossible for anyone to account for every possible variable. Was MvR killed by a Canadian in a Camel? Probably not. Was he ever shot down by an enemy aircraft? Yes, indeed he was. Regardless, he had won the respect and admiration of BOTH sides of the war. That is a feat few men ever accomplish and he is duely recognized for it. Hellshade

Excellent work guys. Just amazing! Hellshade

I've been hit by Archie flying solo. I've seen at least two AA hits on other craft since I installed the superpatch. It isn't as deadly as the enemy a/c in the skies with you, but it is a concern, as it should be. BuB, what is PND? Hellshade

BuB, I'm running pretty close to the same rig, but with a GTX280. Did you know that that i7 920 CPU you have that runs stock at 2.67 Ghz can be overlocked with a good air cooling fan to run at 4Ghz? Mine runs steady at 4 ghz and OFF loves it. At 1680 x 1050, 16xQ I get rock solid 60 FPS no matter where I am or what's in the air. Check into a Zalman cooling fan for about $80 and get a lot more power out of your rig. There are some good FAQs on the web about exactly how to OverClock i7 920. It's about the best chip on the market for OCing. I'm also running 6GB RAM but I have Vista 64 bit edition so I can see it all. My settings are a 4s except for Clouds and Effects are both 5s. It is also extremely rare I get white triangle jaggies at the edge of my screen even when I'm looking around quickly with TrackIR 4. Try bumping your settings down to all 4s except for Clouds & Effects. That might help a bit too. Hellshade

Indeed the CP sounds in RoF are excellent. Fortunately in the OFF Workshop you can adjust the individual volume settings for engine, effects, etc. So I don't see why with a little tinkering we couldn't get it to be the same or better. Might be a project worth looking into. Hellshade

OBD has outdone themselves yet again with this latest Superpatch. The new look and feel of the menus is spot on for making the sim feel even more immersive and getting me excited and in the mood to do some WWI dogfighting. I absolutely LOVE the look! The new air field clutter and extra details make home base feel even more alive instead of just a place to take off from too. The flak sounds are perfect. Flying over enemy lines, the flak burst sounds (and visuals!) really makes me feel like I am flying over a war. I can already attest to the fact that the AA fire has become more accurate. As I flew along straight and level admiring the new scenery and terrain details, archie was hard at work getting a bead on me. My triplane took a direct hit and was turned into a bi-plane instantly. Ha. No hard feelings, archie. The sim is definately more fluid, without any stutter even when the skies are full of a/c and the colors appear more vivid. The Air Start button for faster campaigns is a wonderful idea. We can't all fly DiD standard due to time restrictions so before alot of us were QC junkies just due to time constraints alone. The Air Start option, being able to be chosen on the fly during the Briefing is an outstanding solution to getting everyone into the campaign. Now the excitement and variety of the campaign is open to everyone. While I have always thought OBD patches were excellent in terms of both game improvement and additional content, I must say this Superpatch is the best patch yet. I feel like I'm flying OFF BHaH V3.5. With new flyable planes, completely integrated into the campaign, also on the way it's like Christmas in August. Wonderful, wonderful work OBD! Thank you. Hellshade

I'm glad they (AA) hurt guys. Archie is back in the war again! He's somebody to be feared and that you have to think about. He's not overly deadly, but he CAN hit and given the chance at a straight and level target, he probably will. AA was too accurate initially, then got nerfed into being nothing more than scenery really because he stopped hitting anything at all. Although for the last two weeks or so he did have a bunch of near misses and one or two hits by chance, it seems. I haven't played long enough to be sure but since the last superpatch AA now it feels just right. I've seen several EA go down over the course of the past 20 or so flights due to AA and a lot of it is in the area of where the planes actually are. Am I a little scared to patrol near the front lines and around enemy airfields? Yep! That's immersion boys. Kudos to the OBD crowd. Hellshade

I didn't think for one moment that you were trying to start one. You were just asking an honest question about comparing the two. No worries at all. I just figured you can get all of your OFF facts & impressions here and your RoF facts & impressions there. Best for everyone. Hellshade

I agree with Check Six. No point in starting a "them vs us" flamewar. However I can say that, especially with the latest 1.32 superpatch, OFF has raised it's bar on quality and immersion to amazing new heights. The interface is more immersive and the options on how you want to fly range from "arcade" to hardcore "Dead is Dead". No matter what your skill level or play style you can configure OFF to support it. As for starting aircraft, OFF has 39 to begin with (all flyable in Quick Combat and in the Dynamic Campaign) and Winder and Crew are promising an add-on plane pak in the near future. So between OFF and CFS3, you are essentially paying less than $1 per plane and getting a free, HUGE historically accurate (including weather, moving front lines, 3,200+ paint jobs, missions, etc) dynamic campaign. I can also attest to the support of OFF from OBD as being the best I have ever seen in any game. Seriously. Yes, when P4 finally ships you will need to pay for that. I imagine that will be awhile though. The fact that they keep giving such excellent support to P3, while working on an add-on pak while developing P4 should tell you something about their dedication to creating the best WWI flight sim experience available today. Check out the P3 pre-view movies. Check out the screen shots and talk to the folks around here about their experiences with OFF. Then do the same over at RoF forums regarding that flight sim. They are the best people to talk to regarding RoF and we are your best resource for Over Flanders Fields. I own them both and for my own personal tastes, I found OFF gives me the best experience. Check both sides, ask around and decide for yourself though. I hope you'll join us here at the OFF BHaH forums, but I wish you the best of luck no matter which sim you feel will best serve your needs. All I can add is that if "Immersion" is one of your top priority, OFF BHaH has it in spades. Hellshade

Outstanding patch guys. I'm downloading it now. Will put it to use tonight. Once again you prove your dedication and passion for making Over Flanders Fields the best that you possibly can. I'm very excited by alot of the new features, but especially the Quick Start air campaign option and the ability to make your pilots immortal in QC. Oh and I see flak accuracy has been brought up again abit too. Can't wait to try it all out! Thanks! Hellshade

I've never done that. It certainly sounds like fun though. Probably be the only "mission" I don't get my arse handed to me by Olhams brothers in arms. Hellshade

Welcome to "Six Feet Under Flanders Fields". It's where I spend most of my time, so don't feel bad. Hellshade

Respectfully, I see no reason to make degrading comments about other flight sims. I far prefer OFF BHaH myself. But our beloved Devs have requested that we keep any comparisons between OFF and other sims respectful because of how quick and easy it can be to start "flame wars" on the forums. I'm not saying I disagree with your opinion, but it might be fairer to say that OFF has gotten a lot of new sales because folks who tried one of the other WWI flight sims felt they didn't really get the kind of game they were expecting. And yes, I also agree you can just turn off the claim forms in the workshop. Hellshade