Cliff7600

Hi guys! Derk, my Dutch F-104 is now fitted with ECM, thanks to you and Wrench. I tried to fix that droptanks issue, it didn't work for now but there's still things to try. I added specific fuel tank/IRM weapons stations, and I think it's the key. I've got to find proper locations and angles... Lt. I do agree with you about MiG-25 recce over Desert Storm. I'm trying to fly as low as I can and I often put the MiG in the sand because I didn't really take the time to do that seriously, I'll try again later. Each time I climbed to avoid real stressing flying I got shot. Or it's my wingie that just doesn't follow, staying +1000 ft, I'll fly by myself by now. I didn't try very low flying and roundabout route yet. Take good shots!

Hi guys! I'm not skilled to answer that, but i guess, as ShrikeHawk said, that it's normal stalling effect. If you increase G-level you will decrease lift level (I've read that in a real aeronautics book) Have you fly the F-106? ;)

Hello Search for the "Worst mission you managed to survive" thread. I don't know where it is (General discussion) but I found it with keyword search. There's stories about (almost) failed missions. Hope you'll like it.

ASRAAM, I back. To me, your 2 cents worth 2 bucks. And yes you're right, decisions I made during this flight were only to deal with current situation. Other way they're more dangerous than anything. And I tried another time, to check if I can do it again. And it worked once again, Recce Finback by night over Italy and, this time, there was F-15A/C, F-22 and mighty mighty Hawk T1/127 (w IRIS-T). So I delayed the take off (no more than 10', longer and I feel I'm cheating), and set a course to Greece while the target was Sicilia (Gela). I did take a wingman with me so I fly ~1200 ft to let him follow me. Throttle set to 20% we were heading to nowhere, in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. As I saw that all CAP were RTB, we went to target and there were no problem achieving this mission (almost 2 hours long). I'd say that this success is due to the external fuel carried (5 droptanks, it's a "what-if") and the no-threat zone provided by the terrain. Lt., roundabout route is an option, in this case I was flying 1200 ft low from the begining. That was said earlier in this topic, roundabout routes and no-threat zone, it's getting good. Now I have to deal with AAA and SAM, cause they didn't fire at me don't mean there's no problem. Caesar, I was thinking to the F-14 TARPS, I have to try it.

Thanks Derk, I'll do some recce missions over KB to find that post :) I have a dutch F-104G folder on my WOE because there's quiet good RNLAF skins for the Starfighter. I just miss the ALQ-126 improvement, I hope I'll find it. I got to tell you what I just did. Just one flight with the Finback, no crash, no intercepts, just decisions to make and to realize, over my "nightmare terrain" Wrench's Lybia/Italy. Yes, a bit of luck, there were no F-15. Just a pair of pakistani F-7G, it was a sort of chinese night... So, take off and no altitude 'till the shore (~450 ft), 120ft over the sea and 23% throttle to save fuel (MiG-29 engines). Then, at waypoint 3 I turned on the radar to detect where was the CAP. I kept it on between point 3 and 4 and changed my course to get their six, not to shoot them but to avoid detection. And I slowed down to 350 knots because I was catching them. Took the waypoint 4 course after they turned and followed them 'till waypoint 5 (17% throttle). Turned off the radar, reached 120 ft above the ground but still strolling at 350 knots. The pass at 1200 ft and still 350 knots over waypoint 5, what a target for the AAA! Then military power and turned 180° to CAP course, I get down to 300 ft at 650 knots over the mountains (that was the waypoint 6 course). I got 120 ft over the sea and kept 650 knots, because there were much fuel left, for I didn't punch the tanks :) Then mission was over and I applied myself to make a decent landing. A successfull mission on the first attempt, by night and over a difficult terrain. I took great advantage for there were no "Big" fighters but I did three things that no-one could advise to : - radar turned on while flying an hostile zone - no speed while entering the hostile zone, because of the CAP ahead of me - didn't punch the drop tanks The fact is that it worked well. So let's define recce tactics but don't let's them kill us :)

I quiet think the same. But I don't think going roundabout isn't a option, could be usefull. As delayed take off, sometimes it's an advantage. They're flying, I don't, they're going this way, I don't, as long as I got fuel. "As a matter of fact I was detected and tracked almost from wheels up" I had the same thought. So I don't exceed 200 ft altitude between take off and approach, when I fly the Foxbat or the Finback. It makes the flight really intense from the beginning. In my opinion, the flight must be carefully planned, but there's still options that will be decided in time, depending on what's going on. The fact is no mistake is allowed. I realised too that in RL, a pass should be done before a strike and also after, when they're really mad at you, not knowing if every threats has been neutralized. The aim is also to gain safety when back in a Phantom , not just flying MiG.

:) Man, it seems to me that you have taken the red pill... Don't forget to tell us what you'll discover, I'd be happy to try it! (Starfighter landing ain't a joke!!!)

Amazing! I did a mission with a F-104G w/orpheus pod (RNLAF) over Germany 1986, and it was real piece of cake! MiG-25 on CAP were late and Shilkas didn't shoot (?). Why? No ECM, no flare, no decoy, no radar altimeter, 38' long, the difficult part of the mission was the landing... I think that the short mission radius of the F-104 data.ini does limit the exposure to threats. Short missions are safer than long mission, but it might be wrong during a campaign, during a declared conflict. I wish I could do the same with another plane. But tonight F-104 rules!

I tried the MiG-25R (Indian Air Force) too. I find it very difficult to handle at low altitude and most of the time I had to fly by IFR (and I don't know how to [altimètre-radar, horizon artificiel, bille-aiguille, variomètre et tachymètre, et le compas aussi peut-être? Quelqu'un peut-il m'aider à traduire tout ça en anglais?], pretending to do so as the bird keep flying). Over Salomons V3 by night it's pure fun, as long as I follow the "safety recce rules" (MiG-25 isn't faster than IRM). There were a F-14 CAP, so I delayed the take off for one hour, using the time compression. I don't think that it's cheating because flight delays happen everyday in every airport... :) That MiG-25R is very impressive, in a different way than the RA-5C. I should say that Foxbat, Vigilante and Phantom are planes providing power and safety, even with a lousy pilot like me. I would compare the Finback to the Starfighter, both are fast and efficient, but don't mess with them, they won't forgive. I don't talk about quality, I mean that recce requires fastness, endurance, discretion and flexibility. That's a amount of things, just for the plane.

Interesting flights today. I've decided to let the Shenyang cool down and fly a recce mission as described by you, flying "friendly alignment". I chose the mighty RA-5C Vigilante and Vietnam terrain by 1972 period of time. Nightflight of course. Fully loaded (4 droptanks and 1 fuelpack), I realised that the job is more simple, but still not easy (I was hoping). It took me three attempts before I really get serious. Trying to turn Vigilante to submarine (X1) and not following the safety advices about altitude (shot by SAM on the way back X2). Then there's my fourth attempt, the successfull one, when I get hit by a MiG-21F's Atoll... no rudder left! So, the basis is working, the thing is to adapt the flight to "where I go", "when", "which opponents" and "what plane I fly". Vigilante is not fastest than Finback, but is sure more solid. Navy designed plane I guess :) _

Please Lt., go ahead! I'll be your first reader !!! !!!, a success over Wrench's South California. Hidden by the mountains from the beggining 'till the target (Los Angeles). The point was not to hit the mountain, my Recce challenge is by night... Still F-15s on CAP.

Eraser_tr, you're right about "home on jam", my ECM is OFF now. I didn't know that... ASRAAM, that's good news. Are you flying "friendly alignment"? Because "enemy alignment" doesn't bring much concern about SAM, on my install (WOE/V). It will worth a try, a recce over Hanoi, near 1972... Low and fast, that's what I like! About the Finback over Lybia (or Italy), I've got bad news : +1200 kmph (~650 knt) at 50m (~150 ft), a Hawk 127 just shot me with an IRIS-T :/ Forget what I said about F-15, the Real Threat is that Air Superiority Monster, the Hawk (...the trainer). I'd rather be alone, but that happened 10 miles to target. Was I supposed to "wait" out of range of that Hawk (that I didn't notice anyway), while I was speeding, trying to escape F-106s on my tail? Once again, is "flares party" an option? Let me introduce to you an enemy of mine, that I praise a lot, a "what-if" F-106G (this one is Italian), thanks to Pasko and Column5 for the F-106A. The little oil stain at sea was me... "Quel boulet!" _

I did a new attempt, but I crashed into the Mediterranean Sea while I was turning. 20 ft is not enough altitude. Practise and practise... Special courtesy of Dhimari Intelligence : _

. You'll stay with us in our memory, and in our heart. RIP

Hello guys :) Well, first part is to try tactics and, yes you're right, performing gonna be the toughest part. I really need to improve the tactical side of my flying, low and fast is not enough even if I really want to fly (a little bit) lower. "Know your enemy" the only way to win a war I guess... But the research won't be hard as I know which folders to look at (that's unfair). Getting an escort, yeah, sure. Tasking wingmen to A2A or SEAD is clever and should be done for every Recce mission. I'm gonna try that when I'll give up the Shenyang and try my new Recce tactics knowledge with others planes. But... for the moment I'm flying a "what-if", a F-8IIPR. R stands for Recce (reco in my language) and P stands for ...Paran. The Finback I fly is a Parani one, it's a part of my challenge. And, if you look at the Paran entry nation, you will find that the PilotTrainingStandard is "Poor". So my wingies will do their job but I don't think that they'll win any victory in a dogfight against anyone (No offence to Parani, I fly in your airforce guys...) And that "what-if" status is very usefull to change anything I want, while I keep some limits. So I'll try anyway, I like company :) But I won't change the PilotTrainingStandard. About the fuel capacity of a Finback, I found 8805 ib internal (3995 kg) and 3095 ib external (1405 kg). I found also that it could carry (in RL) three droptanks : 1 X 1400 L and 2 X 800 L, which means (weeeell..., mmmm...,) 3000 liters of fuel in external. ??? Does 3000 L of jet engine fuel correspond to 3095 ib??? I really don't know... Anyway, in the Data.ini file, there's 3400 kg (~7494 ib), so it means that I can pump +500 kg of fuel more (if the internet datas I read are right). In the data.ini file of the RF-4C Phantom, there is 5890 kg of fuel (internal). I know I didn't choose efficiency when I started Recce with Parani Finback, that's the way I am. Doesn't mean that I don't like USAF RF-4C or USN RA-5C, and many many others. Sims allow tough things to try :) Thanks for your advices, they may save my (virtual) life :)

Lt. Well, now it's obvious I was missing a capital point just thinking about "how can I get out of here after the pass?" Planning a navigation seems to be the key for the first part of the mission and should be too very usefull to RTB. I like that, I made some big maps of the GermanyCE and Vietnam terrains and I use them when I really want to do the job. Funny part is that I made reco flights to draw them :) So, first : "make a map" Then, there's two tasks that come to my mind. Find bigger droptanks for the plane (I got to check the load limits), and maybe a smaller reconpod to let the center station available for a big tank. Then, I read in an aeronautics book that you can find the lower RPM or EPR to fly the longest possible and the farthest possible. You got to test the plane and make a curve with the results of the tests. The two entries are speed (x) and RPM (y) and the plane must not gain or lose altitude. The lower point gives you the RPM for the longest flight, and the tangent from zero gives you the RPM for the farthest flight. (If I got it right, I am no mathematician or pilot myself...) Then, second : "test the plane" I won't make an attempt that soon! But there's also stuff I didn't realise : "If or when you figure they are onto you hit burners and go for the deck". I may use the radar to avoid to be close to them, so I may "hide" full power on the deck before they lock on me. Can be smart, uh? I read a topic about turning on/off radar and ECM, and there wasn't really one way to do that. Another answer to find... Third : "you're not done with it" So Lt., you've never been hunted by F-15? You're missing something, it's most challenging. Give it a try with aggressors F-16 or F-5. With the Shenyang F-8II, I've only escaped once. I was testing the HUD sight and I shot both of them with guns, that's weird... a bug maybe? Fourth : "avoid F-15 or start a topic about how to escape F-15" Thanks for your help! I got a lot of things to try, next attempt within... two weeks? :)

Yeah, sure it helps! I started this topic to have opinion of pilots, real or virtual. The thing is any direction is good to try, it's a sim, so I'd like to try as many ways as possible, except changing the plane and the "enemy" alignment because that's too easy, that's my challenge. If I can do it like that, I will be able to do it with any powerfull plane. My precedent successfull attempt made me think about the "Thud ridge", north of Hanoi, that was a real tactic for F-105 pilots to protect themselves. Using the terrain to "hide" seems to be part of the success. Your post gives me two things to work on, or two answers to search for : "fly as low as possible", do I fly as low as possible or should I practise that further to stick with the ground? I had super fun flying Julhelm's RA-5C (thanks) but I hit the ground too many times it made me more prudent than before. Maybe I should practise that to be more aggressive on low altitude flying? I read that Israeli F-4E pilots flied as low as their skill permit them, even if they were not at the same altitude each other, and also that USAF Invader pilots practised their low flying during the Korean war, for exemples. "planned the mission" of course! I didn't really do that. Every serious pilot knows that every flight must be planned carefully. Joining waypoint 3 or 4 as slow as possible to save fuel maybe a good start, also to let interceptors fly away, but sometimes they scramble at the last time. And sometimes I get shot down between waypoint 3 and 4 :/ For maximum speed, it's logical but it may not be the right plane to count only on that. Very fast plane, 1340 km/h at sea level, that is +720 knots (there's MiG-29 Klimov RD-33s inside ) but F-15 just follow me 2500 ft above (launching AIM-7M). Running away as fast as possible is the key if the "guardian" ain't too strong and too fast... I think that the F-8II is a large plane, which make a large target to shoot at, so if I want to speed, it means that I should not be seen by opponents, flying lower? (more powerfull ECM? Flares and Decoys party? Bird of Prey's cloaking device?) Anyway, thanks for your reply :)

Hello :) I had a success, only one. I post it to wink at Wrench because it was over the Salomons V3 "WW2 install / not designed for jets" terrain :) This terrain is one of the most pleasant of my install and jet flights are terrific (Am i going to take off? Am I going to land? ...before the end of the runway) Well, the stuff was not to exceed 150 ft, except between waypoint 9 and 10. It means that it was at the top of the trees or just above the surface of the water going from island to another island. Get intercepted two times ; the first F-106 stalled twice (too bad) and the second wasn't fast enough to catch me ; no Genie in their weapons bay. It didn't work over Lybia (another Wrench's, I am a fan!) because it's water or desert, no place to hide... A F-15 locked on me and then, "goodbye". It's fast enough, it's not far from his base and it has sharp weaponery. "Cliff, you idiot! Won't you just fly F-15 and take out reco Finback?!" _

Ready for night reco operations over Dhimar _

You're welcome, enjoy your flight

Hi! About the pilot, if your J-7II is Geg's version 2.5, the pilot is already in the plane but the location is wrong. Change the location to : Position=0.0,2.75,0.84 that's a funny issue, the guy is "inside" the seat. Hope it'll help you! Cliff

@ Ultramax and Spinners : a little skirmish maybe? _

Chinese race car :

File Name: A-12 Avenger II Lights (How to add to the data.ini) File Submitter: Cliff11 File Submitted: 10 September 2009 File Category: Ini Edits You will find the few lines you have to add to the A-12_DATA.ini for navigation and landing lights. You will have to add the lines yourself ; it's not practical but the data.ini may have been modified already. Just copy the lines and don't forget to change the XXX to the accurate number. Modify this file as you wish, but don't use it for any payware! Cliff11 Click here to download this file