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So does that mean because of their inclusion in previous NF campaigns, they'll also be included in NF3? And do the wingmen go by the callsign Canuck and append an "eh" on then end of every command they acknowledge?

I admittedly know little or nothing about the NF1 & NF2 campaigns, so this may have already been covered. Anyhow...what about the possibility of a Canadian squadron of CF-104's or CF-5A's? Personally I'd love to see any squadron of F-5As as I'm not nearly as big a fan of the Zipper, but if it had to be a Zipper to get a Canadian squadron in I'd be more than cool with that. Another question I have is, will the NF1 and NF2 campaigns work with WoE after the September 08 patch?

The response and link are much appreciated comrpnt. Annotated mission files are a good thing and I'll definitely be downloading them. I'm still going to stick with KMD because I really like the map and the ease of waypoint placement. As well having a built in reference for friendly and target location coordinates is a real plus for me as I really don't know my way around NAM. As I soon discovered, knowing the structure of mission files is a must for QA'ing/proofing missions, so those annotated mission files should really help. Based on yours and Kreelin's posts I recognized my mistake in the creation of flights. What I was really wanting to do was give Flight001 a size of 4, so I'll be making that change today.

The version of KMD is v 1.07 and the installations of Wings Over Vietnam and Wings Over Europe have been updated with the September 2008 patch. The problem I'm having isn't with the 'Player' checkbox for Flight001 becoming unchecked, but with the 'Take Off' checkbox becoming unchecked when I click the [Apply] button or [save All] button. However if I set 'StartOnGround' to 'True' in the mission file, when I load the mission again in KMD both checkboxes are checked. When I do choose the 'Take Off' checkbox from within KMD I am correctly notified that my aircraft will take off from Hue Air Base, it's just that the above mentioned mission file entry isn't changed to 'True'. Perhaps it's occurring because I've errantly included a 2nd Flight002 that's taking off from the same airbase at the same time. I can now see where I made my error with the 2nd flight and will change my mission accordingly. Other than that one problem, the KMD tool has been excellent and all the ground object entries I created came off like clockwork. It was amazing for me -remember I said I was a noob- to use the [F7] view to watch my column of M48A3s roll out to the jungle edge near Khe Sanh and for column of enemy T-55's to across the coastal plain there to engage them. Many thanks for your response Kreelin.

Well the F-15E actually had 3 MPD's, but I guess you could argue the RWR is the equivalent of one for display purposes. This is the reason why I think TK's idea of doing the Suez and then Korea -at least that's the rumor I've heard - is a good decision. There's nothing in those time periods that the WO engine can't currently accomodate. That factor should allow him to focus on other areas like terrain and heli avionics / flight models. I think it's unfortunate that the ability to host additional MPD's hasn't been added yet as it would really help someone trying to make Gulf War era aircraft, but it's all good with me. I still look forward to and appreciate whatever the mod community can come up with in a Desert Storm campaign. Since I posted earlier I fired up WOE and jumped into a F-15A strike mission and I had a blast with it. I even managed to take out a SAM launcher with my Vulcan and land on road when I went bingo on fuel. This sim has plenty enough to offer in it's current state for what the asking price is. It's just that if it went a few extra steps I'd never need to fire up F4AF or torture myself trying to get my Janes sims flying again. TK may refer to this as a "sim lite", but considering that people who would have been flying liter sims on PC's a decade ago our now flying them on Xboxes and PS3's now, I wouldn't classify this sim with that term. Games like Blazing Angels and Air Combat 6 are what sim lites have become.

I wasn't very clear, I was actually thinking more weapon targeting systems than weapons. From the little time I've spent in WoE, from what I've seen most of the weapons used in Desert Storm are there or at least their earlier incarnations. The targeting systems I'm thinking of are the DIANE on the A-6E, and the the A-G MPD's in the F-15E. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the radar modeled in WoE is the APG-63 in the F-15A, whereas the newer F-15E's in Desert storm had the APG-70. As well the absense of at least a 2nd MPD in the cockpit seems a bit too limitting just for the immersion factor alone. And I can't see how this sim in it's current state would support a HRM or GMT display in a MPD. Also, the Apache was a huge part of that war and it seems to me the current engine wouldn't allow for an accurate modelling of it, let alone it's advanced targeting systems. Now if you were to correct me and say, "but clever modders have added those extra sytems", I wouldn't be surprised and I'd stand to be corrected.

I guess I'm a noob because I'm returning to this sim, but I did play Striker Fighters and WoV in their 1st year. I'll ditto all that Icarus999 stated; great suggestions. What I'd like to see most is a Korean war theatre from 3rd Wire, but I suspect that's already eventually coming. If we do indeed roll back to an earlier time frame where prop aircraft were more common, I'd really like to see trim controls added with at least elevator trim at a bare minimum. Having to auto level the Skyraider in WoV kills the immersion for me. And while we're on the topic of control I'd really like to see improvements in rudder control. If a Korean theatre does indeed materialize, I'd like the terrain to finally be done right by 3rd Wire and for TK not to rely on 3rd parties for it. The korea terrain is spectacular and poses some challenges as anyone who's played F4 or Mig Alley knows, and it'd be nice if 3rd Wire finally put some focus on that aspect, especially since there won't need to be many new avionic and weapon systems. I'd also love to see helicopters properly introduced to the engine starting with the Korean War era Sikorsky H-19/HRS-1, hopefully doing it well enough so that 3rd parties can more easily build more modern helis for the current Wings Over.. sims. I'd also love to see RECON/rescue missions added to enhance helicopters. I don't just want the past though, I'd also really like the SF engine to support more sophisticated targeting systems, i.e. I'd really like a DIANE for the A-6 in WoV. I'm not saying make it a 100% accurate, but add enough so that at least the viusal aspect can be created. I know that 3rd parties are currenlty working on a Desert Storm theatre, but I don't see how it'll be possible to do it realistically with the current status of the weapon system. And last but not least, but I suspect it's the least likely to ever happen, I'd like much better multiplay, especially Team vs Team and co-op campaign play.

I've noticed that when I apply rudder pedals it causes the jets to roll instead of yaw in the correct direction. Whereas I noticed that rudders seem to work correctly in Razbam's Skyraider. I did a search in this forum and the Knowledgebase forum for rudders. I found many topics but the only one that seemed of any use was one referring to the MIG 23. That thread referred to the aircraft_DATA.INI file and the ReverseModelOrientation and RotationAxis settings. So....I extracted the F-4D_DATA.INI file and compared it with the A-1D_DATA.INI file. And low and behold I noticed the following entries were different. So noting the difference here it brings up the following questions: 1. Are the F-4D_DATA.INI settings incorrect, i.e. should 'ReverseModelOrientation=TRUE' and does a 'RotationAxis=Z-AXIS' entry need to be added? 2. Do these edits need to be made for EVERY FREAKING plane in the game!?

I'm using CH Products Pro Pedals, as well one of my joysticks -Logitech Wingman Force- has a twist rudder. Just of of curiosity I tried the Logi sticks twist rudder and got the same result.

I've read what everyone has said here and I can understand why there'd be some roll on aircraft like the F-4. However, the fact is that I get a significant amount of roll and virtually no yaw. Even in the Skyraider where I do get some yaw, the movement is minimal. I really only planned on using rudder control during landing and taxing, but the way it's modelled here I'd be afraid it might cause me to crash. It's true my more recent stick time with a military jet has been in FS2004. but I can say that even for jets that were supposed to have poor yaw rate, the rudder control in FS2004 is worlds away from this sim. The same is true if I contrast the rudder control with F4AF. I don't want to mix apples and oranges amongst sims, but the rudder movement just seems off in this game; almost broken.

Excellent information Southernap; much appreciated. Looks like I haven't been getting up to enough altitude as I usually do a bob up to about 8K ft before I roll over. I've been going too low before pull out too; somewhere around 4K. I'll try what you suggests and see how it goes. Now that you describe all the inner workings of the DIANE system I only want it even more in this sim. It maks me appreciate what they did in Flight of the Intruder because some of which you mentioned occurred in the movie, including Tiger kicking the AYK-10. Haven't we all done something similar with are fists when the sleeve bearing starts to wear out on a PC's power supply fan... I know I have.

Aha, now something like this was what I was looking for! My speakers as set under Sound and Audio devices are correct. In fact the Creative Audio Console has a feature that allows you to auto link the Windows speaker selection with the CMSS (Creative Media Surround Sound) 3D setting menu. Such that when you turn off all CMSS features the speakers selected will be 2 desktop speakers and if you enable the highest CMSS2 setting, the speakers selected will be 5.1, etc... I checked to confirm it each time and the corresponding speaker setting was correct. I'm well aware that my sound card isn't capable of processing a sampling frequency of less than 44.1 Khz. I remember this being an issue in Flight Simulator 2002 -fixed in FS2004 and FSX- where you needed to change a setting in a CFG file from 22000 to 44100. Hopefully this will do the trick; I'll try it as soon as I can.

I've gone through all the motions of patching WoV including adding the latest patch and essential 3rd party addons. Every things works great, however I'm encountering a problem with sound. My problem is when positioned forward in any jet cockpit I don't get any engines sounds. The engine sounds don't kick in untill I pan to the 4 or 8 O'clock positions, even when I have afterburners lit. As well, a sound like movement through air I do get when facing forward, sometimes just cuts out and later cuts in. I can hear all of the radio chatter and radar / avionic warnings just fine. I've tried changing the number of sound channels in WoV, but it's made no difference. The only aircraft that does give me engine sounds while forward facing is Razbams Skyraider, but even for it I get cut outs as I pan my view. I know the engine sound shouldn't be as loud when facing forward in a jet, but no sound can't be right. I've tried every conceivable configuration for my Sound Blaster Audigy II card to no avail. I do have a bit of an uncommon sound setup in that I use the SB Daughter IO card to connect my PC's audigy card to my home theatre via a fiber optic TOS-Link cable. I've tried switching my home theatre to all of the available sound modes -Dolby PL Music, Dolby PL Movie and standard stereo, but I still get incorrect sound. This is really baffling me because I get perfect sounds with FS 2004 in virtually any sound configuration. Other PC games seem to work fine too. My system specs: AMD 64 3200+ Sound Blaster Audigy II Nividia GS 7600 PCIX w/256 MB 1 Gb DDR2 RAM 200 GB SATA HD WinXP w/SP2 w/DirectX 9.0c

I guess like me, a number of folks here want to recreate Cool Hand and Tigers' better moments from Flight of the Intruder. I'm with others here that aren't thrilled about having to dive bomb in the Intruder, mostly because it can be a nasty bird sometimes to pull out of a dive. I also can't level bomb worth a damn. I appreciate the fact that TK added Iron hand missions in WoV because IIRC they weren't there in the original Strike Fighters. A fullly funtioning DIANE would make WoV the definitive combat sim in my books. Doesn't Razbam's A6 have a more sophisticated targeting system, or is it just some additional visual enhancement? I'm really liking the Razbam Skyraider I just bought and was considering the Intruder, but I probably won't go with it unless it has more sophisticated targeting.

Hoping someone could clarify what's meant by the references in this thread to opening and saving the weapons file(s) with the Feb 2008 Weapons Editor. Is the proper procedure to just open the WEAPONDATA.INI file in the Weapons editor and then click the [save] button? Or do you need to further open each weapon 1 -by- 1, then click [OK] and then finally click the [save] button? I'm praying it's the former and not the latter, because this update has already eaten enough of my time. Not that I'm complaining about the final results or anything.

Oh cool! You mean the next patch will be a multiplayer server edition that will run on Windows 2008 Server. Come to think of it, isn't what you've listed here the minimum requirements for Windows 2008 server anyways?

I did the following steps for updating WOE that Dave originally listed in the main patch thread. I now have a good working install of WOE with some nice 3rd party addons; many thanks Dave. Now I'm wondering what would be different for WOV; i.e which tile set and can I use the same runway tiles? If anyone could give me any feedback on how these steps would be different for WOV, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I've been meaning to get back into WoV and WoE, but I've been awaiting a new patch. Since the 1st patch for WoI was released in April and now the 2nd in August, I assumed there'd be new patches forthcoming for the earlier games as was the case in the past. Maybe I missed something, is 3rd Wire planning on bringing the recent upgrades and enhancements to the earlier SF series games, or will they only be patching WoI from here on in?

I went thru the multiplay sticky again and refreshed my memory on all the settings. I remember going thru it all many moons ago to get in some dogfighting action with a friend via Hyperlobby; router still has all the necessary ports enabled . Something I can't seem to recall or find in the sticky is whether 2 - 4 players can go up against the AI as a wing/flight while online. Is this currenlty supported, and if not is it something that will be enabled in the next WoV or WoE patch?

Great stuff, sounds like the co-op multiplay has had some significant ehancements since I last tried it. I wasn't aware of the ability to participate in it solo, so I'll be giving a go. Too bad about still having to start in the air, of course some of my friends find the enroute flight to be boring so I guess it's a matter or opinion whether that's a limitation or not.

I probably should have been more specific n my question. I'm really hoping to get 2 -to- 4 friends together and fly a co-op mission such as a bridge or airfield bombing mission. What would be ideal is if there was a chance to come up against an AI flight flying CAP. I remember when I looked into this before that it really wasn't possible in WoV, but that was before the last patch.

Single core Athlon 64 @ 3.2 Ghz. I'd like to chuck my mobo and go with an Athlon X2, but there's lots of things to spend my $ on; like a new HOTAS for example. :)

Hey NH2112, I still occasionally fly F-15. It looks amazing on my older system with AXP 1.6 Ghz and a Voodo5 running @ 4xAA. The best tutorials I ever saw for this sim were some articles that appeared in the now defunct Debrief magazine and Computer Gaming World. There used to be tutorials on a few sites but I think the sites are long shut down. I trust you've flown the training missions that are included; they're quite good. The trick to landing is learning how to use the air brake just right. Make sure you cover all of the training missions before you attempt any real missions. This flight sims just a bit too hard core to be approached any other way.