Arrow

Never mind, figured it out. I had indeed incorrectly assumed my boresight center was lower on the CF-105 Arrow cockpit windshield than it is. I'm locking up those Frescos and picking them off with ease now. Unfortunately the bear fighter jocks in them can really get on your tail and shoot accurately. Had to bail out once - at least I ejected over land! I'm going to have to do some experimenting with getting the right speed/acceleration on closure while painting them. In my 1st encounters, I'm bleeding off too much speed and can't accelerate out fast enough to shake any Mig that jumps on my tail. Fun stuff!

Well I knew it was going to be a challenge using the F4-Ds with the CF-105 with it not having an aiming sight, but I've only gotten a boresight radar lock twice. Meanwhile my wingmen can shoot down the Frescos with them like fish in a barrel; 2nd time I obtained a lock, one of my pilots had that Mig going down in flames before I could launch! The only thing I can think of is that maybe what I think is my boresight radar center might not be correct; hard to be certain with the CF-105's funky cockpit design. So I guess there's the possibility I'm not painting those Migs very effectively. Meanwhile the growl for the AIM-4 Falcons, never seems to reach the right pitch. I'd post a screenshot to show what I think should be the correct location of the Arrow's boresight radar center, but I'm returning to Strike Fighters after a long absence and I'm not even sure how to do a screen capture - doh! Anyhow...if anyone here's had experience using the AIM 7 Sparrow F4-Ds in the Arrow, I'd appreciate any feedback as to what the correct technique is. [Edit] BTW I'm loving flying the Avro Arrow. Really a dream come true, so thanks to all the modders here who put some work into it!

I saw in the SF2 file download section, that NF5 has a requirement of SF2 Euro, SF2 Israel, SF2 Exp1 and SF2 Exp2. I was under the impression that like NF4 for the SF 1 series, the only requirement for the series 2 equivalent was SF2 Euro? I don't plan on getting SF2 Israel and Exp1 for some time and will likely never buy Exp2. So my question is; is it possible to use NF5 with a reduced feature set (i.e. less available aircraft) with a bit of file editing/modding if you only have SF2 Euro installed?

Thanks for the reply Menrva. That's good to know and nice that support for alternates was added to SF. I can't recall; were AlternateTypes there for the WoX series?

A CF-100 Canuck would be great to have in the game! That said, I'd personally choose a Canadair Sabre, or a what-if CF-105 Avro Arrow or CF-105 Thunderchief over it, for the respective era. Would definitely fly a Canuck over a CF-104 zipper though - any day of the week.

I don't know how I missed its release, but being a Canuck I've always wanted to fly a CF-105 Avro Arrow and seeing how someone brought this wonderful jet to Strike Fighters 2 really excites me! I missed the 90's Janes flight sim that a fan created one for, so I've never had the pleasure of sitting in that cockpit. Other than of course the fruit crates with umbrella handle and lawn mower lever my brother and I bolted to some cheesy space-age-styled fiberglass chair back in the 70's. :) I've been hemming and hawing about getting Striker Fighters 2 Israel, but this changes things. Knowing that the CF-105 is available, if I fly in any SF 2 game it'll be belted in the seat of an Arrow; hey its my avatar name after all. ;) I'm in Canuckistan with the falling Canuck-loon for currency and all the SF 2 games cost about $55 CDN right now, so I can't afford to casually buy the lot; or even more than 1 right now. I was set on SF 2 Israel, but I can't think of a way to fit the CF-105 into that theater. I can see SF2 Vietnam as a possibility, because I've already did a what-if for WoV where I flew as lead in a CAF wing of CAF CF-5A Freedom Fighters. Of course the Arrow's paint scheme is all wrong for that and I lack the knowledge to create skins. SF2 Europe is the most likely fit, as it would have been the theater that the CF-105 was deployed to in the early 60's. That said, what about SF2 North Atlantic? That's the one theater that was never available for the SF1 series so it would be fresh, but it's also the entry in the series I know next to nothing about. I can't imagine ever landing an Arrow -or even taking off- from the deck of an aircraft carrier (damn that jet was huge!) so I don't even know if it could work in NA. I've never seen so much as a screenshot of NA's map, so I'm not sure what's there. I got the impression from something I read ages ago, that its map only consists of Iceland with and the surrounding Atlantic. I'd probably only be interested in it if it's possible to take off from airbases in Canada or at least Greenland or Norway; whether from the included map or a fan-made expansion. A lot of consideration in the design of the CF-105 was for Arctic defense, so flying in such a theater somehow seems more appropriate than others. I remember back in the day there being a fan-made Danger Bearing Straight campaign for SF 1 which would be cool to fly the Arrow in, but was it ever updated for SF2? I also got the impression that SF2 NA wasn't well received, so I'm cautious and wonder if there were any issues with it? Anyhow...I currently don't own any of the SF2 games, so I'm inviting some feedback from anyone who has NA as to whether it could work for my interests?

lol That's quite the what-if! Interesting enough, in my Avro Arrow book I noted that one of the early designs really resembled a Fishbed. I read somewhere on the Internet a few years ago, that some in the Intelligence community of the 50s suspected spying by either side as cause for the similarity; I just put that down to wacko/weird conspiracy theorist stuff. Still, there's no denying that an early Arrow prototype did look like what would become the MiG-21. Anyhow....nice work on that - always like seeing jets in RCAF liveries.

Wow, I never would have thought of a Central America Vs Mexico what-if set in the Gulf, but that terrain looks terrific and the idea has a lot of intrigue. Will there be a possibility in the scenarios to treat it more as a proxy war, with the possibility of mercenary pilots from the USA and Russia. Personally, I'd love to have some Canadian mercs flying decommissioned CF-105 Arrows, CF-5A Freedom Fighters or CF-188 Hornets; depending on the historical era. What editions of SF2 will be required to play it?

Note that the 2 examples I gave of modders working with source code, do not constitute public releases of the source code. In both cases owners of the IP have released the code exclusively to a specific team of volunteers. In both cases, you must buy product in order to use that modded code. In the case of Falcon BMS, you must own or purchase the original Falcon 4 as the modded game queries for it whenever it launches. In the case of IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover, the modded game which includes Team Fusions work up too patch 4.5, is now titled IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover Blitz and is sold as a full retail product with 1C Software (publisher) reaping the profits. Soon there will be another retail game in the series set in North Africa that will include Team Fusion work up to patch 5.0. Those teams of volunteers never own the source code outright either, but are granted a license to develop it. That certainly seems like a win-win situation to me, in that volunteers do the programming, art and other work for free, while the original publisher of the IP makes money on sales they probably wouldn't have made without the enhancements. I wouldn't expect TK to do a public release of the source code the way Interplay/Volition did with the FreeSpace 2 code.

My problem with Third Wire pricing and policy, is that it bucks the trends. Prices for older combat simulations typically decrease, yet Third Wire's have inflated. Even worse; the series is no longer supported, yet there's no source code release to fans that could improve upon it. There is another exception with Lockheed Martin's Prepar3D which has the extremely steep price of $200 US (a vast increase over FSX pricing), but it's definitely more the exception than the norm and really in a different class as it's used professionally for training and certification. The Strike Fighter series prices look particularly dubious when compared to a few other combat sims that have seen significant enhancements. Note: I can only quote prices from my 2 common retail sources in Canadian currency. Those prices are slightly short of a 1/4 less for US gamers - sorry, can't quote the difference between the UK pound and CDN dollar off the top of my head. So that a comparison can be made between the prices of the other sims I'm listing and Third Wire's; The Strike Fighters 1 series at $29.99 US each equates to $39.16 CDN, while the SF 2 series at $39.99 each is $52.24 CDN. Here's an example of 3 combat flight simulations that have had significant modding activity. Falcon 4 [release 1998]: GOG $12.89 (Falcon Collection, version 1-4), Steam $7.79 Source code released to Benchmark Sims (Team BMS): 64 bit recompile, addition of DirectX 11 support, complete terrain update, multiple bug squashing, online play improvements, addition of cockpits, support for other aircraft, support for fan-made terrains and campaigns IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover [release 2011]: Steam $28.99, GOG n/a Source code released to Team Fusion; 64 bit recompile, addition of DirectX 11 support, 3D object enhancements, ground object improvements, multiple bug squashing, online play improvements, new campaigns, addition of a playable Bristol Beufighter, support for fan-made campaigns. IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 [release 2006]: GOG $12.89, Steam $10.99 Significant overhaul now managed by the BAT (Battlefield-Airborne-Tactical) Team; enhancement of ground objects, shipping fleets, aircraft, addition of new terrains, enhancement of the Command & Control system No doubt there's more combat sims that have seen lots of modding, but those are the ones I currently fly; maybe someone else can list other examples. Those are significantly lower prices and in the case of Falcon 4 and IL-2 ClOD (thanks to official fan development teams), a much more current gen sim with a significantly richer feature set. It's unarguable that the Strike Fighters series has some outstanding modders and for me personally that lessens the pain of the much steeper price. That doesn't change my impression though, that Third Wire seems to be way out there on another planet in terms of their pricing.

Very nice - great job! I plan on flying a Thud at some point, so it's good to know that skin is available. Very few combat aviation fans are aware of how close the RCAF was to selecting it as their next gen aircraft. From what I've read, the Thud topped the selection list, but Lockheed sweetened the pot for the Starfighter by getting it in a US government sponsored program that lowered its price tag. Do I think the RCAF made a mistake choosing the F-104 over the Thud - hell yes. I now the Starfighter has its fans (it is a bit faster, with a better climb rate), but that funky quick turning technique of flipping it over is something I could never grow to like. IIRC the F-105D had a better combat radius, which when you're tasked with defending a vast Arctic coastline is a nice trait. As I mentioned earlier, I tried the CF-104 in WoE+NF, but they just felt a bit too unwieldy too me - Thud for me all the way! Of course I'd take the original CF-105 / Avro Arrow over either of those 2.

Excellent - looking forward to them.

Very nice, with an enhanced DIANE too! Some arctic permafrost is going to be movin!

Yup, I was thinking I would need it if I wanted to fly the Canadair Sabre again, but then I noticed the Super Sabre is included with SF2 Euro. I'll probably get Euro and the Mission Editor from the start and then get SF2 NA next. Unless of course my question in my last post proves to be an affirmative; that I need SF2 NA for Alaska Bering Strait and Sweden Baltic Rim.

Good to know and thanks for your efforts on those mods. Do either Sweden Baltic Rim or Alaska Bering Strait require SF2 NA? I saw the mention in the Bering Strait file description about the terrain being improved from a 500m mesh resolution to 250m. Mesh in that resolution always throws me for a few seconds, as I'm used to my 10m mesh in Flight Simulator X and X-Plane 11. Then I remember in Strike Fighters I'm usually hurling over these terrains at close to Mach 1 or better and often at very high altitudes. As well, much of my need for finite terrain mesh in those General Aviation sims is so my seaplanes don't end up landing on the equivalent of a coastline waterfall, where my passengers can disembark and then swim and claw their way up to the dock. Not to mention I'm rarely flying those seaplanes above an altitude of 6,000' or faster than 125nm / hr, so that landscape ought to look good and correct. BTW What happened to the A-6 Intruder in SF2 Vietnam - my all time favorite SF mud mover? I noticed the A-6E is there in SF2 NA, but it's only AI and IIRC that's a later variant than what was in WoV.

I'm becoming more sold on SF2 Euro every time I read something else about it. :) Doesn't the Nato Fighters 5 mod improve the terrain similar to how Green Hells did and does for WoV and SF2 Vietnam? At least that's what I seem to recall from running the NF mod for WoE, but it's been some time. I was wondering about the campaign editor, as there's little info on the 3rd Wire store page. IIRC NF will allow me to run a campaign in different eras as a RCAF or later CAF pilot, whereas stock SF2 Euro won't. I certainly remember running a NF campaign set around 1960 with my wing of Canadair Sabre Mk IVs - even modded AIM 9B's on to hardpoints. :) I also seem to recall running a late 60's (maybe 68 or 69) campaign with a wing of CF-104; memories foggier with that, as I believe I abandoned it due to liking little about the Starfighter. I remember looking into the possibility of an early 80's campaign with a wing of CF-18/A Hornets. So yeah, if memory serves me correctly I don't need to worry about campaign options for my nation, so thanks for bringing that up about the Campaign Editor. I can see where buying SF2 EP 2 from the start would save me some money -about $13 CDN- with its inclusion of the Mission Editor. But...but...that means waiting to the end of the month to buy both, because this month's simming budget is almost entirely shot. Oh well, best to be patient and stay frugal - my glory as a RCAF CF-105 pilot will have to wait just a wee bit longer. Unless of course I'm wrong about the need for the Mission Editor and could run a RCAF campaign with CF-105 set in the early 60s in the Arctic with just SF2 Euro + Swedish Baltic Rim or Alaska Bering Straight mods?

Well I did some browsing and found the Sweden Baltic Rim (1952-1994) and Alaska Bering Strait (1955-2018) mods which are both for SF2 Europe. While Baltic Rim only has a small portion of Norway and no Norwegian bases, both of those theaters present Arctic regions. I could see flying an Avro Arrow for NATO in either or those and the dates would allow for my era of interest. And yes to the fan-made Nato Fighters mod - remember having that for WoE and it was an awesome addition! Both of those terrain mods state; "Recommended Full-5 Merged." So I'm guessing that means the mod creator recommends having a merged install of SF2 , SF2 Vietnam, SF2 Europe, SF2 Israel and SF2 NA? If so, at a total cost of almost $275 CDN that wouldn't happen any time soon for me; if ever. At this point, I'm thinking of starting with SF2 Europe and eventually adding SF2 NA and maybe SF2 Europe EP 2. [Edit] Oh and for sure the Mission Editor and Campaign Editor.

Yes and I'll add that's a very nice shot of a Tomcat on the front cover - better than any of the other covers IMO. :) Thanks for the reply Migbuster Hmm...so the NA scenario is more of a the 1st shots fired in a series of battles, than say a Tom Clancy Red Storm Rising situation where Iceland experiences a sort of an auto-overrun day 1? IIRC in the late 70's Canada's primary NATO obligation was the support and defense of Norway, so it definitely makes sense some CAF could end up dukeing it out with the USSR in Iceland. My bigger concern is the 1979 time frame, as the Arrow would be close to being retired by then and I'm guessing the fan-made model of it wouldn't allow for upgraded avionics? So ideally an earlier 60's campaign date would be better for my interests. Is doing something like that with the addition of fan-made aircraft and maybe the SF2 mission and campaign editor even doable with NA? [Edit] I'm guessing that the SF2 Europe Expansion Pack 2 can't be used with this, so other official, pertinent content would likely have to come from the full SF2 Europe product? Oh, and is it true that the NA theater map is restricted to Iceland and the surrounding Atlantic?

Well a fully merged install is something I'd never work up to, for the basic reason it costs in excess of $200 CDN for the 4, SF2 core products alone! I mean, I own a lot of addons for FSX:SE (and I do mean a LOT, as addons like Accu-Feel, Active Sky, corrected/detailed scenery for float plane bases and high rez terrain mesh are must haves if you want full simulation) and I've spent no where near $200 for them. IIRC I managed to merge my WoX installs, so I know the wonderful smorgasbord it provides. If I was to dabble in SF2, I do it for the history and Vietnam and Israel would probably be as deep as I'd dip. Sorry for the late reply MigBuster. My biggest problem with AI was enemy flights not showing up at all in missions I built. I got quite fluent with the fan-made mission builder (sorry, don't recall the name or creator) and was certain I built my missions correctly, yet sometimes flights would be completely absent. If enemy AI not showing up is part of the design, it's not a feature I care for. I also found that AI wasn't particularly good at situational awareness and it was quite easily get the jump on them if I attacked from certain positions. I also don't recall AI ever using counter measures in the later simulated years, but TBH I can't even remember if that was a feature of WoX for players or AI. Ground -to- Air AI and gunner position AI almost always seemed competent though. In comparison, the AI in Falcon BMS and DCS seems positively lethal. I have equivalent AI problems in IL-2 CloD Blitz though, with even veterans being quite lame at hitting me with many shots. Somehow Blitz being WW II and the Battle of Britain, makes it less of a problem for me. That's probably also because it takes more of a study sim approach with very detailed aircraft, so a big part of my play time with it is an experience more comparable to FSX:SE or X-Plane 11.

" the game out of box may not seem worth it, but the wealth of add ons is (that is presuming by the phrasing of your post that you dont own any of the titles)" Correct, I don't own a single title in the SF2 series. That wasn't the case for Strike Fighters 1/WoX though, as I owned every title released with the exception of WoI. I understand about the series being a survey sim, that delivers a lot of aircraft to fly and much more due to the excellent efforts of the modders. The high water mark for my time with WoX, was flying missions I created for my WoV what-if, whereby Canada had entered Nam and had squadrons flying the CF-5A Freedom fighter (aircraft courtesy of a modder) in close air support and strike. I also really liked flying my WoE Canadair Sabre with AIM 9Bs strapped to my custom hardpoints under the wings, which again was a what-if too as the RCAF only field tested those in the late 50's. So yeah I really get the survey thing and had some fun with it. That said, my fun was somewhat diminished by the WoX series, as I seemed to encounter a lot of shortcomings via the design. I can live without the checklists and realism of a study sim, but I'd have to say SF2 would have had to alleviate some of the rough edges in the SF1 series (especially around AI), for me to feel I got my moneys worth. [Edit] Actually, now that I've popped my WoX thumb drive in and browsed, I did own WoI. I believe I acquired it though when my enthusiasm for WoX was waning though, thus much less stick time with it and my mistaken sense I don't even own it.

Recently all my air time has been spent with DCS World, IL2-CoD (Team Fusion patches to the the max) and BMS Falcon 4. I own all of 3rd Wires Wings Over series, but never did make the upgrade to SF2. The thing I miss most is flying those legendary birds of the IAF. But now that I check back in on this combatsim, I see that there hasn't been any updates since 2012. If memory serves me correctly, the Wings Over series never got beyond 3rd gen avionics, with the most advanced being in the F-18A and F-15A. I'm enjoying the more recent gen in DCS and BMS Falcon and always wanted to see that come to WO. I'm considering purchasing SF2 Israel for my IAF fix, but I'm not that enthused about flying jet aircraft that haven't even made it to the 4th gen. As well, I remember being quite frustrated with kludges in WO campaigns that I at times had to edit files to work round. So did the avionics in the SF2 series ever advanced beyond what was in WO? As well, in the past few years I've noted 3rd Wire arcade sims showing up on Android store - installed a few, but TBH they paled in comparison to the more realistic combatsims on Android like Gun Ship 3. Now I see that one of those has been brought to the the PC. So is SF2 pretty much abandoned now, with TK and 3rd Wire now just focused on arcade sims?

Yeah I hear you, ED certainly seem to plod along at a snails pace. My bigger concern though is the amount of bugs and kludges in DCSW that don't get fixed and worse; new ones errantly intro'd by patches that don't get fixed. Don't get me wrong - I bought FC3 in a sale for the same price as SF2 Israel and I've had a fun time and good experience with it, but have definitely had to make a few compromises with how I play. I also think it's very impressive what the WO and SF2 fanbase of modders was able to do for the sim. When I'm feeling I need a break from DCS and BMS Falcon, I might just buy SF2 IAF and Vietnam to relive some of the fun. Many thanks for the link Do335 - looks like I've got some IAF possibilities after all. ;)

You know, TBH I'm not even sure. I just got it installed a few months back when I was finally able to dig my old F4 CD-ROM out of storage. I've still got my nose stuck in the Training and Flight manuals, barely have gotten my wheels off the runway. ;) I will do some checking into that though.

Thanks for the reply and info MigBuster. Yikes, talk about a facebook post that gives a guilt slap to others like me who didn't upgrade! Heh, heh. I didn't make the update to SF2 because I didn't think I had a good enough PC, as I was still running WinXP until 2013 for resource reasons and SF2 was targeted at Vista and Win7. A Buddy recently told me I could have run it on WinXP though. lol, guess I should have upgraded, but I'll take my slaps like a good fighter jockey now. So I'm taking it's a yes too to my question about not advancing SF2 to 4th gen avionics? I really wish the manufacturer of DCS and those wonderful BMS Falcon modders would start thinking about an Israel theater. But BMS efforts are free for fans, so who's to complain. The manufacturer of DCS is bringing part of the Desert storm theater to their sim, but from my understanding there's no allowance for any mods to reskin it to Israel - not to mention hardly any of the appropriate jets are available.

There's too much happening in the world politically and militarily to stay out of discussions, so please opt me in.