baffmeister

For the UK general purpose bombs used in WW2 all I found regarding CEP was a reference to "groupings within 20yds" when dropped from 10,000ft. I will guess that the TW entry CEP=20.00 represents groupings within 20meters so will just stay with that.

Thanks, I think I read something about that when researching the RAF bombs. Will stay with the TW number for now and see if I can find more bomb specific info.

Could someone tell me what the CEP= entry in the bomb data ini's represents? I noticed all the TW dumb bombs I've looked at have CEP=20 for that entry while all the "aftermarket" dumb bombs have CEP=0. The very last entry: [WeaponData001] TypeName=Mk81 FullName=Mk.81 250-lb Bomb ModelName=mk81 Mass=113.400002 Diameter=0.230000 Length=1.880000 SubsonicDragCoeff=0.092000 SupersonicDragCoeff=0.357000 AttachmentType=NATO SpecificStationCode= NationName=USAF StartYear=1957 EndYear=0 Availability=3 BaseQuantity=24 Exported=TRUE ExportStartYear=1957 ExportEndYear=0 ExportAvailability=3 WeaponDataType=0 RailLaunched=FALSE Retarded=FALSE FinStabilized=TRUE SpinStabilized=FALSE EffectClassName=SmallBombEffects DragAreaMultiplier=1.000000 WarheadType=0 Explosives=44.000000 FusingDistance=0.000000 ClusterBomblets=0 ClusterDispersion=0.000000 GuidanceType=0 Accuracy=0 MaxTurnRate=0.000000 MaxLaunchG=0.000000 LockonChance=0 LaunchReliability=0 ArmingTime=0.000000 SeekerFOV=0.000000 SeekerGimbleLimit=0.000000 SeekerTrackRate=0.000000 SeekerRange=0.000000 LiftDragRatio=4.000000 ReleaseAnimationID=-1 EODisplayFlags=0 CEP=20.000000....................................................THIS?

After doing a bit of research I'm just going to leave the "RAF" bomb series alone for now. They are probably being used quite a bit for the WW2 bombers and I don't want to mess with them at this point. I did have a look at the lods and they don't seem to resemble the early WW2 RAF bombs all that well except for the ring around the tail fins. Some of them look more like the later MC [medium capacity] types that entered service in 1943. I will include a couple of bombs with the Typhoon FM. The lod for the RAF500[kg!] makes a good 1000lb-MC so will include that. I also found a nice 500lb-MC in my regular SF-2 install but don't know where it came from. Both will get checked over and re-packaged for "Bulge" use. I also checked over ThirdWires UK250lb, UK500lb and UK1000lb. The 500 and 1000 look like newer bombs but the UK250lb looks exactly like the 250lb GP used in WW2 so I might re-package that one at some point. Here's a pic of the ThirdWire 250lb GP. In game it shows up as "250-lb Bomb" .

Thanks for the tips and thanks again for the document, which has all the weights, explosive percentages and various types the Brits used during WW2. The date range for the various bombs seems to be covered reasonably well by assorted websites.

I'm not aware of any limitations regarding the resolution of the data but how much is too much? Here's a stall table from one of the old AvHistory WW2 FM's, circa 2009. I think these were made for SF1 at the final patch level. StallDragTableNumData=255 StallDragTableDeltaX=1.41732283464567 StallDragTableStartX=-180 // StallDragTableData=1,1.192,1.389,1.597,1.821,2.065,2.336,2.638,2.976,3.357,3.784,4.264,4.789,5.345,5.915,6.484,7.036,7.555,8.026,8.435,8.783,9.073,9.307,9.487,9.616,9.696,9.73,9.72,9.669,9.579,9.452,9.291,9.099,8.878,8.63,8.357,8.064,7.75,7.42,7.076,6.72,6.354,5.982,5.604,5.225,4.846,4.47,4.1,3.737,3.384,3.044,2.72,2.413,2.127,1.864,1.627,1.417,1.238,1.093,0.983,0.912,0.881,0.894,0.953,1.06,1.214,1.413,1.651,1.924,2.229,2.562,2.918,3.293,3.683,4.085,4.494,4.905,5.316,5.722,6.119,6.503,6.869,7.214,7.534,7.825,8.082,8.303,8.488,8.637,8.751,8.829,8.871,8.878,8.85,8.786,8.687,8.554,8.385,8.182,7.944,7.672,7.369,7.037,6.678,6.295,5.89,5.467,5.026,4.571,4.105,3.635,3.167,2.666,2.18,0.869,1.015,0.979,1.007,1.001,0.996,0.998,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,0.999,0.999,1.001,1.001,0.995,1.004,0.973,1.244,1.665,2.083,2.498,2.914,3.331,3.75,4.197,4.666,5.148,5.631,6.104,6.557,6.979,7.359,7.687,7.951,8.143,8.263,8.32,8.319,8.268,8.173,8.042,7.881,7.693,7.482,7.249,6.996,6.727,6.442,6.145,5.837,5.522,5.2,4.875,4.549,4.223,3.901,3.584,3.274,2.975,2.688,2.415,2.159,1.922,1.706,1.514,1.348,1.209,1.101,1.025,0.984,0.978,1.006,1.066,1.156,1.276,1.423,1.597,1.795,2.017,2.261,2.524,2.807,3.106,3.422,3.752,4.094,4.448,4.81,5.178,5.549,5.92,6.289,6.654,7.011,7.359,7.694,8.013,8.315,8.597,8.855,9.088,9.292,9.466,9.606,9.71,9.775,9.799,9.778,9.712,9.595,9.428,9.205,8.926,8.587,8.185,7.719,7.198,6.637,6.055,5.467,4.892,4.346,3.847,3.402,3.008,2.659,2.349,2.072,1.824,1.599,1.39,1.192,1 StallXacShiftTableNumData=255 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=1.41732283464567 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180 StallXacShiftTableData=-2.539,-2.517,-2.495,-2.474,-2.452,-2.43,-2.408,-2.386,-2.364,-2.342,-2.32,-2.298,-2.276,-2.254,-2.232,-2.21,-2.188,-2.166,-2.144,-2.122,-2.1,-2.078,-2.056,-2.034,-2.012,-1.99,-1.968,-1.946,-1.924,-1.902,-1.88,-1.858,-1.836,-1.815,-1.793,-1.771,-1.749,-1.727,-1.705,-1.683,-1.661,-1.639,-1.617,-1.595,-1.573,-1.551,-1.529,-1.507,-1.485,-1.463,-1.441,-1.419,-1.397,-1.375,-1.353,-1.331,-1.309,-1.287,-1.265,-1.243,-1.221,-1.199,-1.177,-1.155,-1.134,-1.112,-1.09,-1.068,-1.046,-1.024,-1.002,-0.98,-0.958,-0.936,-0.914,-0.892,-0.87,-0.848,-0.826,-0.804,-0.782,-0.76,-0.738,-0.716,-0.694,-0.672,-0.65,-0.628,-0.606,-0.584,-0.562,-0.54,-0.518,-0.496,-0.474,-0.453,-0.431,-0.409,-0.387,-0.365,-0.343,-0.321,-0.299,-0.277,-0.255,-0.233,-0.211,-0.189,-0.167,-0.145,-0.123,-0.101,-0.078,-0.055,0.006,-0.001,0.001,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.001,-0.013,-0.035,-0.057,-0.079,-0.101,-0.123,-0.145,-0.167,-0.189,-0.211,-0.233,-0.255,-0.277,-0.299,-0.321,-0.343,-0.365,-0.387,-0.409,-0.431,-0.453,-0.475,-0.496,-0.518,-0.54,-0.562,-0.584,-0.606,-0.628,-0.65,-0.672,-0.694,-0.716,-0.738,-0.76,-0.782,-0.804,-0.826,-0.848,-0.87,-0.892,-0.914,-0.936,-0.958,-0.98,-1.002,-1.024,-1.046,-1.068,-1.09,-1.112,-1.134,-1.155,-1.177,-1.199,-1.221,-1.243,-1.265,-1.287,-1.309,-1.331,-1.353,-1.375,-1.397,-1.419,-1.441,-1.463,-1.485,-1.507,-1.529,-1.551,-1.573,-1.595,-1.617,-1.639,-1.661,-1.683,-1.705,-1.727,-1.749,-1.771,-1.793,-1.815,-1.836,-1.858,-1.88,-1.902,-1.924,-1.946,-1.968,-1.99,-2.012,-2.034,-2.056,-2.078,-2.1,-2.122,-2.144,-2.166,-2.188,-2.21,-2.232,-2.254,-2.276,-2.298,-2.32,-2.342,-2.364,-2.386,-2.408,-2.43,-2.452,-2.474,-2.495,-2.517,-2.539 I have to wonder what affect a large engagement of WW2 planes with data inis like this would have on game play.

Thanks, I will check through that document and revise what I think necessary with the RAF bomb inis and include the new ones with the Typhoon. SF2 WW2 installs are tricky! Lot's of old files to review and update but for anyone looking for an EAW style WW2 sim, I don't see any other options.

I think there have only been a handful of SF players over the years that could actually build what might be considered a HiFi flight model and even they would be limited somewhat by the games flight engine. I'm definitely not an FM guru and what I do is mainly just some basic lift/drag calculations while relying on assorted ThirdWire tables to at least supply some normal behavior. Having said that, I do spend a lot of time trying to track down real world information to build and test the FM's. I don't know of a way to output telemetry from a test flight. If you have a flight manual for the the aircraft, it's relatively easy to test the plane in game to see if it's close to some key numbers. Knowing the proper climb profile from the flight manual, you can check climb time to altitude. With hud in debug, you can check available "G" at various speeds. If you have a sustained "G" chart, you can check that to see if the FM is close to the real plane. Some of the older flight manuals are surprisingly light on information but even checking the take off distance and speed at a specific weight can be a good cross check for an FM. It sounds like you might be interested in a computer program based approach to flight models. I have heard of some people using excel type programs for calculating some coefficients but I'm no help there. There are some software gadgets that can make some basic lift/drag calculations. I used one tool called foilsim to try and generate CDL tables for cambered airfoils but the results always seemed a bit iffy. I'm trying a different math based approach now that seems better but still requires certain "assumptions" on my part that may or may not be correct. I used the new approach on the P-47 and it seemed to work reasonably well. I think an actual HiFi FM should demonstrate aircraft specific handling qualities but that's a whole different realm compared to just hitting the important numbers. ThirdWires FM's are probably quite good at that in a general way but seem to lack the real world behavior when at the limits. It is possible to "tinker" with the headline numbers to generate certain behavior but that's a long way from getting type specific behavior over the entire flight regime. Maybe DCS is getting close to that but I think only an actual pilot who has flown the type would know for sure. Not much help but maybe you could explain your intentions in a bit more detail? Someone else might know of some programs that would be useful when building FM's.

I should have mentioned, no belly landing skids on the "Bulge" FM's yet. Will add some to the final versions.

This FM is for the Cocas/Wrench package available here: https://combatace.com/files/file/16542-sf2-ww2-eto-p-47d-40-late/ This was quite an interesting FM to attempt. I didn't even know the late model P-47's had dive recovery flaps until I downloaded the package. The P-47 had good horsepower, especially with WEP, but it was also heavy with a high wing loading. The Soviet turn time tests put it in the 26-28 sec range. This FM seems to be at the low end of the range. When dog fighting it seems best to keep the speed up above 200kts and avoid turning contests. Any break in the action presents a good opportunity to grab some altitude which will offer some potential energy prior to the next engagement. If you dive down on targets at high speed the plane maneuvers quite well and you may have the option of a turn fight for a limited time. Quite a few changes to power ratings during the P-47's WW2 service. For Battle of the Bulge FM's I'm looking for the best power output when using 100-130 grade fuel as the higher octane 100-150 was restricted to aircraft based in England until early 1945. There was a kit developed in early 1944 that boosted the WEP rating with 100-130 grade from about 2300hp to 2535hp, both ratings using water injection. I got confirmation of this power rating from an RAF Thunderbolt II flight manual. The kit was meant for aircraft operating outside of England so was probably meant mainly for MTO and PTO operations. P-47's in England got a different kit that I think was meant for the transition to 100-150 grade fuel. Interestingly, from the speed charts I've been looking at, the earlier P-47's had higher speeds in the 30000ft range than the later versions. The later versions were faster up to about 25000ft so there may have been some changes to the turbocharger system as the P-47's were assigned more and more low level missions. With this FM you can expect max speeds of about 345mph at sea level and 435mph TAS at 25000ft. NOTES: DIVE RECOVERY FLAPS: Surprise! These were actually built into the model using an animation ID so the animation has been activated. On the real plane they were designed to shift the wings center of pressure forward to aid recovery from high speed dives. I tried to add some aero coefficients to get them to work like the real ones but it didn't work so went with the same approach as the original FM. They just work like airbrakes but are handy if you ever encounter my "Generic Mach Tuck Effect". INTERCOOLER DOORS: Another surprise animation ID, also activated. Not sure yet of the typical positions so I just set them up the same way Wrench did the cowl flaps. WEP TIME: There was a 30gal alcohol/water tank that gave about 14min and 30sec of WEP. The Thunderbolt II manual said this was limited to 5 Min at a time but, like the BF-109G-10, you get the full duration. ROLL RATES: From a couple of sources, max roll rate was about 90deg/sec at about 255 MPH. Still have to tune the low and high speed roll rates. ISSUES: Some of the cowl flaps are visible when viewed from the front but not from the back. A more realistic looking prop hub would be nice! Also, maybe a couple of distance lods? OTHER STUFF: I've been getting a lot of frame rate issues in my WW2 install, some of which is caused by effects. To help the situation the exhaust effect will be default off from now on. If desired, it can be activated by removing the double slash from the ExhaustEmitterName=//, in the engine section. My main intention with these WW2 FM's is to build an EAW style flight sim. After putting up with the MomentOfInertia effects for quite awhile and using the trim work around I've had enough so will go with "default off" for that effect. I will include at least a token number for the inertia effect and will make sure it works in the right direction. Activation is the same as for the exhaust emitter. Flight simmers looking for torque, slip stream and P-factor type effects should buy a different game! I have seen some definite errors in the ammo weights showing up in the load out screen. Occasionally, the weight is double what it should be. On the plus side, the extra weight doesn't show up in game when using the hud de-bug mode so seems to be just a harmless glitch. Here's the FM: P-47D40_DATA0.95.zip

I found those animations at the last minute. After getting my wing shot off I noticed what looked like a dive flap hanging in mid air. Checked in Mues lod viewer and found the part then checked all the animation ID's. Bonus! Some other stuff I should have mentioned. Due to some crash issues with other aircraft I didn't mess too much with the AI. The original AI seemed to work quite well for this plane and probably helps to keep the speed up. The higher speeds and heavier weights for the late war fighters will probably require some AI adjustments for the previously released Battle of the Bulge FM's. Another "tricky" issue is the strafe AI. With wing mounted guns the AI fighters will miss ground targets with the bullets hitting on either side of the target. With the guns angled in to converge at about 300 meters it's possible to get hits but the planes must get quite close to the target exposing them to more ground fire. The rocket AI I'm using for the P-47 rocket tubes also exposes the plane to a lot of ground fire. I might be able to get the rocket AI to work from longer ranges but I don't think the strafe AI can be adjusted to minimize the AAA threat.

Heavy Metal Thunder

You're welcome! Presently working on a P-47D-40 FM that should be ready in a week or two and I plan on checking the TW P-51D FM similar to what I did with the Spit9's. You can expect some eventual Typhoon and Lightning FM's as well.

A couple more "Battle of the Bulge" era FM's attached. I did some speed checks on the stock ThirdWire FM's and the speeds were too low for a Merlin 66 powered 100 octane version so I made a few changes. The sea level horsepower numbers looked good so the tail wheel drag numbers were adjusted similar to what I used for the Spit1 Battle of Britain FM's and the CD0 values were adjusted slightly to get the proper sea level speeds. Some of the speeds at altitude were still too low so I added some ram air boost to extend the full throttle heights an additional 2000ft for low and high blower and that gave some good numbers. With WEP, you can expect 335-340mph IAS/TAS at sea level and about 405mph TAS in the 19000-21000ft range. The speeds I checked at other altitudes up to 32000ft are all within +/- 5mph of the chart I was using so the engine table is a done deal. There may be some AI crash issues with the later WW2 FM's I've been making so some changes to the AI behavior may be required. For the Spit9's, I added an additional 5deg to the nose up elevator travel and that helped some, but the Spit9's still seem quite "G" limited at higher speeds so some other adjustments may be required. Roll rates and rudder behavior will get a closer look as well. Still have to do some research on the drop tanks but they will get added eventually. I originally planned to use the TW Spit14 for an eventual Battle of the Bulge campaign but the bubble canopy versions may not have been "in theatre" until early 1945 so will probably use one of the Spitfire 9 versions instead. Here are the FM's: Spit9FMs0.95.zip

Stingray77, the approach you are trying can work with objects in terrain folders but not sure about making new pilots. Make sure the folder has the same name as your re-named lod but don't change the name of the BitMap, just include it in the new folder. If it doesn't work that way, then the hex-editor is probably the only option.

Love the plywood!

Yes it did but the causes may have been a bit different than the F-101. To address the issue a stick kicker system was installed that would "kick" the stick forward if the aircraft was approaching a critical alpha range. I think the critical range was around 15-16deg but could vary depending on stick input rates so was a bit more complicated than a simple alpha limiter. There is more info in the F-104 flight manual that can be found online. Wrench made a link somewhere.