Fortiesboy

If I could add to earlier, it may add to the clarity ( or confusion -LOL ) of what damage is in OFF. If it is wrong I hope Winder etall will correct it, or others may have different views on it, but this thread seems as good a place to put it. This is my understanding of how the damage works in OFF. First, what is damage- in computer terms in OFF? I think it is in essentially two parts. When your bullets hit the enemy plane, it hits certain parts called Damage Boxes. The values which those damage boxes have, determines the "probability" of the hit registering, and the amount of points needed to make the damage. Those values are entered by the programmer into a section of the xdp files of each plane. Now the "damage" here is defined by the computer as that which makes the part stop working. So, the plane may start to fly as if a wing isn't working, or an aileron or engine or pilot or whatever. Thus we see the plane wallowing or spiralling or sinking etc. - this is what the computer makes the plane do, until it hits the ground of course. BUT, so far, the computer has not made the image, ( which you see on your monitor,) show the plane as having any damage effects, ie broken wings, fire, smoke trails explosions etc. because this is made to happen by the Threshold values section of the xdp file. These are figures entered in that part, by the programmer, to make those effects occur. Theoretically, those figures are percentages of the Damage Box figures? So that when there is 100 per cent of the figures reached ( in the damage boxes ) to down the plane, there should be an appearance of all the effects in the TVs section, because 100 is the figure at the end of each plane part, that the devs have programmed to be reached . I know that is logical, and I thought it was like that, but my observations lead me to believe that it isn't as simple as that, otherwise there would be many times, if not every time, a plane was damaged enough to fall from the sky, when we would see these effects come in, But we don't - many( most ) of the time the planes go down with no major effects showing. From what I have read on the forum, this is what most players are seeing most of the time. Putting the logic to one side for a while, I played around with the TVs of some planes, and I found that by lowering the values, that these damage effects could and would be seen. And I found that I could make these figures as low as 50-30 ( instead of 100 ) in a lot of cases. The frustrating bit ( and the good bit, too ) was that these effects didn't always occur when you thought they would. There is a lovely element of randomness. Which means that quite low values still did not mean it was necessarily arcade. Some may think it is - but maybe the AI was Rookie and all visual aids were on, and Workshop settings had "strongest" bullets and Normal DM- but the arcadeness is down to those things I've just mentioned - not necessarily the Threshold values. I'm pretty sure it can be made NOT easy, yet still have damage seen. The xdp files i submitted for evaluation were using Prop Wasche's Intermediate DM file, but there is no reason why the Threshold values "section" can't be pasted into the xdp file of a Hardcore DM. or a Normal DM. I reckon it would work. ( If you are thinking on doing this, please refer to my thread where it tells you "how to" ) Then see if it's arcade, using the Hardcore file, on Normal bullets against Ace AI with NO visual aids apart from trackir. You would do well to survive against two AI like that- and that scenario, I suggest, is more like it was in RL and would be like conditions were in " campaign " in OFF. cheers

Well, I've voted for Prop Wasches DM. I see one or two chaps have referred to it as mine, so perhaps I should make the situation a little clearer ( I hope ) Prop wasche altered the Damage boxes in the xdp files which made the planes succumb to hits and go in at a point easier than hardcore and later than Normal. And then submitted it as a third choice DM to change around in the same way as you could the Normal and hardcore DMs Using that as a base, we both then adjusted the threshold values to give varying degrees of damage effects, ie wings coming off, fire, explosions etc. We don't agree ( amicably, I would add ) on the level of damage to be seen. If you look at my thread where test samples were put up, you will see my thinking on this. - which basically is that if a plane goes down damaged, it should ( mostly ) look damaged. So we each submitted for testing some modded xdp files for you chaps to try. ( And we actually haven't had any feedback on those! ) I am still testing and altering, but I'm of the mind that whichever DM you use - Normal, Hardcore or Prop wasches Intermediate, you can still use in those installs, different xdp files where only the Threshold values have been modded. And that one Hardcore DM with xxxx TVs could still play online against another Hardcore DM with vvvv TVs ?? This is still to be tested.

No - it seems to be a thing about the dynamic weather beloved of campaign players that the weather is a lot of rain. If you remember the videos of phase 3 when it was near to release, they nearly all had rain! Just use the CFS3 QC in workshops as described above- You can choose your weather, including the historical weather you are now experiencing. Which brings me to a query. Although the history and weather has been researched, and no doubt the weather was like it is portrayed on the day in question, I cannot see how any sensible pilot/squadron commander would have flown in some of this weather. Do the records show that the WWl pilots actually flew in this stuff?

Some guy flying the Russian release, about which he enthuses, says it pixellates a bit when near the ground. Then I think of OFF - which doesn't! Must say that some of the ROF videos are good - especially the guns in the fokker DVll in the dogfight video. I wish i didn't have to be online at all times to fly it - then I'd buy it, no doubt.! Would be nice to have two outstanding WWl flight sims.

Having watched the video, several things come to mind. I am with Cameljockey= I want to buy and play this sim, but not while there is an online requirement. I think the river water is brilliantly done. I think the player's aircraft crashing Dm is well done. However, I think the terrain is not a good as OFF's. Much more bland in comparison ( sliders at 4 in OFF ) I have just as good DM manifested in OFF as far as the shot down AI is concerned, having modded the xdps as explained in my relevant threads on the subject. ( see elsewhere in the forum ) So, nothing new there. If you don't have that, you know what to do- :yes: The cockpit has moving parts to guns - very nice, but overall the cockpit is no better than OFF. So, again - I would like to fly it, but please Neoqb, remove the barrier.

Welcome to Over flanders field. Seriously, this day and age, the only way to play flight ims, with any degree of realism , is with trackir. If you are unaware of its capabilites, please google it and you will find youtube videos showing it in action. It is an almost unassailable statement ot say that anyone who has used trackir cannot go back to flying sims without it. With it , " view commands " become totally irrelevant.

I use the flak settings in CFS3 QC mostly, where they are gradable. So I like 'em as they are. Are they not so in campaign?

Can't agree on this. Surely, ( you don't mind me calling you shirley, do you ? ) leaning forward in the cockpit in RL only gives you two or so feet nearer to what you are looking at? It can't ,in RL , give you more!! So, in the sim, what you are asking for has got to be unrealistic.!

That may not be correct. I agree that piracy is a problem in the gaming industry, but I do not think there are hordes of true flight simmers out there, waiting for a pirated version. The ones who do use the pirated versions ( of flight sims ) are not guys who would otherwise have bought it if the pirated version didn't exist. Flight simmers are not like that. Flight simmers want a good flight/campaign experience and are almost all undoubtedly willing to pay for the products they want to play. IMHO, It's because it is such a niche pastime, that that is the case. Blackdog says it better over on Simhq.

WF2 S! I'm sorry, but I don't think that's correct. As you know, your simhq thread has asked for clarification from the devs on this. All that's happened is that someone has referred folks to a thread which says, if i read it correctly, that you have to have a constant online connection to play single play.! Why is it that the devs or their Reps don't answer on this important ( and now confused ) question?

Madmatt S! Yes, i reckon you have it right.. That's the way I'm thinking on this. Though, I tend to go as well on what I observe. The DMs - Normal; Hardcore and PW's Intermediate, IMHO , change the point at which damage occurs according to the number and place of the bullet hits. Theoretically, the threshold values (TVs) cause the damage to be effected when that percentage of damage is reached. However- I am not so sure that it works like that in practice. This is why I think that. I have fired bullets into EA planes and the EA have gone in ( augered, spiralled, wallowed etc ) and crashed but have still been intact. I have seen that, and i think most everyone else has. It seems that the computer has decided that the bullet hits have caused damage so that the thing "damaged" does not work any more. - The wing, or the pilot, or the tail or the engine etc. If the plane has a wing damaged so that it has reached its points total, then the plane will be made to no longer fly, i.e crash, by the computer. So the plane goes in. But to show the "effects" of this damage the TVs, also, have to be satisfied to a certain level, and those "effects" ( if you look at the TVs ) graduate from debris coming off, through fabric ripping sound, through other effects to, finally, "break". The file says that will happen when I reach certain percentages ( of the damage points?), but my observations have shown that 100 per cent is rarely reached, which would show the wing coming off- or the engine explode. The plane has usually gone in long before that. I have got the wing to come off or the engine explode etc by reducing the TVs to around 45. Prop Wasche doesn't reduce that far, thinking possibly that to do so will make the damage too easy. I have found that to stay at PWs' values still means that the damage effects are not seen. My conclusion is that I am not so sure that the TV figures are percentages, because they are not acting like percentages. If the planes are going down, then there should be TV percentages of 100 being reached. ? ( the damage points are being reached, aren't they?) -But they are not, apparently. IMHO, the TVs seem to be the same in any of the three above DMs -Hard, Normal or PW Intermediate. - the 100 values don't seem to get reached in any of them. Which means that the lowering of the TV values would work in any of them as well. If anyone thinks that lowering the Tvs as i have done will make the damage too arcade, then let me re iterate what I have experienced. If you fly against Rookie EA, ( let alone with labels on, strongest guns, padlock etc ), then you will easily get damage because it seems to sit there and let you fill him with lead etc.. But, if you fly against the Ace EA without those aids ( especially if there are more than one of'em ) and which i suggest is more like the RL scenario would be, then there is no way that the damage is too easy. In fact, you do well to survive against two or more Ace EA. This AI now is good at Ace level and it's only right that if you get a five second burst ( that's long ) into the EA then you should expect to see some damage. Not all the time, but more often than not. So, may I suggest that you can put my modded Tvs of my xdp files in any of the three DMs and you will see a difference. As it happens, I don't think PWs Intermediate Dm is too easy at all, and in that my xdp files will give a fun and visually satisfying combat. HTH

Last night i had my first experience of multiplay head to head since EAW. UK Widowmaker led me through the setting up and we had a couple of sessions of one on one. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant - No stutters or slow FPS at all. The only thing I noticed was that he was shooting me when it looked to me as if he was facing well to one side of me. IOW, it looked as if he was firing at 10 o'clock and hitting me at 1 o'clock. From his perspective, he had me in his sights. Is this caused by lag? Does it make any difference if you change settings in workshop re bullet spread for example - or if we play the hardcore damage ? - We were on Normal 1.30c But this a a minor thing compared to the fun and enjoyment I had. I loved it and hope to do some more. Thanks again, Widowmaker and the Devs.

Creaghorn S! Glad you got it sorted re your voice control. I don't use it a lot in OFF, apart from starting the aircraft. You could use it for Attack - A; Rejoin for R ? But in other sims it is good - flaps, landing gear In BOB WoV,and Il2 there are commands for surfarce wind; Asking tower for vectors etc etc. Don't understand why it hasn't apparently been used more. Same as trackir as well. I'm constantly surprised at how many simmers don't use, nor have heard of, trackir.

Although I started this thread, I didn't want nor intend it to become a "My sim is better than your sim" thing. And ( so far) it hasn't.Which is good. Referring to what OVS has said, he will have a hard time loving OFF more than me , but a lot of what makes a WW1 sim good for him, makes it lukewarm for me. Personally, I am not too bothered about the accuracy, timelines, squadrons, campaigns, statistics etc etc of which he speaks. That it is there and has meant a lot of work for some guys (who love that sort of thing - and I know a lot do ) is very much appreciated: but I like dogfights in scenarios ( scenery, AI, FMs, Dms, weather, etc ) where I can escape into those "dangerous" moments, and almost feel as if I'm in danger myself. (Of course, I'm not in the least danger, and I'm not belittling what the guys who did it for real went through, but I'm just trying to describe my preferred type of immersion ). That is why my flying is mostly in QC. And if I trusted the internet more, I suppose I would like ROF, which is plainly an online sim . But, like OVS, having to be hooked up to somewhere servers for all the time i wish to play a sim, is not for me. ROF would be ideal for me if i could play against AI offline, and against one or two mates ( IP to IP etc) online. Like EAW did, -and like I'm going to try with OFF! Different sims offer different priorities for folks, better or worse than others.. It all boils down to that. Sometimes you can like something/somewhere etc too much in that other things and places can become easily attacked. I'm sure this forum strives to be more objective than that. I sum it up in my signature Enjoy your sim! FB

B Bandy S! No problem mate, most here love WW1 sims and will fly them , if they suit. And most of us who are well into OFF get as frustrated (as you are here ) at the guys who say they have tried OFF but its CFS3 really etc etc. - because we know that it's a fair bet that they haven't got it installed and used to it's best advantage. It could be that many view F.E. as I do. ( it seems it might be good, but can i get it good enough?) E.g. I have F.E and i have tried it on two occasions. OOTB, it is nowhere near enough quality. So, I think, the mods might have made it different enough for me to like it. But getting it to where I imagine you have got your install seems to me to be not so straightforward. First there is the gamble i have to take by buying another add on. ( am i throwing good money after bad ) and ( can i only get it by online purchase, - I don't use my card online ) Then, it seems, there are many downloads and mods to be added, requiring some deft computer knowledge? The patches for OFF have all been straightforward one click installs. And that is a very BIG consideration for most folks ( Thanks Winder ) If Thirdwire want lots more to fly F.E how about presenting a scenario where, having bought the original disc, issuing a single one- click download and install, containing all the mods bringing it to the standard you enjoy? I'd no doubt give it a go then- as I think would many others. (I'm going to have another little crafty look now, as a result of your post ) cheers

Yes - a good 'un. It seems the program is no longer available. I don't know if a search on google for voice commands or such will bring forward any modern programmes, but i find game Commander excellent for years. Any command I make up can be put to any sim key button -- Eg "Flaps" for flap button, " Bombs away" for bomb release button. etc . It will take multiple keys , so was great in IL2 and F4, Shoot 1.6.4 is a similar program - free to download it appears. Google it.

I use Game Commander which allows voice to activate keys. So I say "Start Us up", or is it "Starters Up", -whatever - like George Peppard and key E kicks in And Voila!

Thought you were on leave in Paris ? Time passes so quickly now !

Gaw Reference your difficulty in re naming the files . I had the same problem to start with, so it could be worth checking this re your computer settings. Do you have file extensions enabled? By that I mean, do you have your computer set to show the name of the file after the "."? Go into Control Panel, select Folder Options, click the "View" tab, scroll down some, and uncheck the box that reads "Hide extensions for known file types." You should now be able to read the full file name, including extensions." That was my problem, and after i unchecked the relevant box the changes happened fine . HTH FB

Chaps, I see 12 downloads so far, thanks. Prop wasche is away at the moment but he has asked me to post two of his xdp files for you to try. He asked me to say that" they are not quite final, but pretty much where he wants them to be" Alb_DIII_QC1.txt Se5a_QC1.txt

I'm sorry I don't think this is right! Always, from the start of OFF Phase 1 right thru, when installing, it is necessary to run CFS3 once, i.e fly it once, after installing CFS3 and patching to 3.1, and before installing OFF. The reason is that there are certain files which are put into the registry as a result of making a flight. These files are necessary for OFF. This is still the case, certainly if your CFS3 is the original two disc version. I'm not exactly sure what the position is with the Ubisoft DVD disc version of CFS3, but the install instructions on OFF website no doubt clearly states it.

Hope i'm not missing something here, but I read this that you are using both the clip and the hat? You may mean you are using each one in turn, but if you are saying that you are using both together, then you should NOT BE DOING THAT. Use one or the other. Personally, I prefer the hat.

[quote and as Tamper says, don't want to be the bearer of bad news either but buying a card, then a PSU, then considering RAM...see the downward slope? JJ Yes, I'm afraid that your system is behind far enough that a new card won't give a big enough improvement. You mention Windows 7. I would consider keeping your money and saving towards a new system. The leaps have been so large that upgrading your present system, in gaming/flight sim terms, is, IMHO, throwing away money.

IIRC, I don't think you need the 3.1a patch, but no doubt someone who is certain will clarify this.

Yes, my thoughts too. Personally I've tried my mates pro clip and then discarded it and tried his cap- I use a cap too- and i found it better than the clip. Surely, you are using one or the other? ( You don't mind me calling you shirley, do you )