+Tailspin 3 Posted January 7, 2007 EmlD...What I did was copy all the SE5a values for the wings, elevators, control surfaces, and such over to the N28 Data.ini. I didn't change the data specfic to the N28 like Flight Control, Aircraft Data, Engine, Crew, guns, landing gear, etc. In other words I cheated. I came up with an N28 that flies like an SE5a...sort of. Its not anything developed on N28 data at all so I wouldn't think it proper to actually use it. I'll send you the file if you want, though. BTW...the pilot position in your latest file is OK externally but using those coordinates for the cockpit view doesn't allow you to see the instrument panel. I think a good compromise postition is 0.0,-1.02,0.57. Anything closer than -1.02 causes the instrument panel to start to disappear and any thing higher than 0.57 allows you to see under the cockpit padding, its too high. Here's some screens. You know, you gotta get that vid card fixed... The first two are with the coordinates in your last file. These two are with the coordinates I gave. It is possible to mix the coordinates to give you the outside view you want with the cockpit view that works best too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 7, 2007 Hi ....... 7. Slow and Fast Prop nodes with Textures (Taken from SPAD :) added 8. Pilot position edited (than you Tailspin) 9. N28.out files added to modpack for info Thanx, and good night! EmlD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 8, 2007 Question on the FM is it ballanced for Normal or Hard? Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 8, 2007 I edited the FM data.ini from SPAD.... when i extracted it from objects.cat the geame was set to hard... FM for N28 dismatches the SPADs FM in: 1. [FlightControl] 2. [AircraftData] including EmptyInertia 3. [Engine] including SLPowerDry And i have a quastion to you mates... comes still the light (fier) from the gun barrels out? I am afraid, i used the fire animation IDs (GunFireAnimationID=7,8) for MG mooving animation... or is the fire animation produced in other way? Thanx! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 8, 2007 I edited the FM data.ini from SPAD.... when i extracted it from objects.cat the geame was set to hard...FM for N28 dismatches the SPADs FM in: 1. [FlightControl] 2. [AircraftData] including EmptyInertia 3. [Engine] including SLPowerDry I guess that explains the very strange stall behaviours I was getting. Have you or anyone else read any references on how the plane behaved?? Was it similar to the N28?? I have no idea personally, hence Im asking. I dont mind drastic unrecoverable spins and stalls if it was similar to the SPAD XIII. I it wasnt or we dont know then I do think it should be changed for gameplay purpose. For me feel is the most important thing and its nice when planes have their own distinct feeling, ofcourse within reasonably historical bounderies. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 8, 2007 N28 was more manouverable but not as fast. N28 top speed of @123mph vs the SPAD's 138mph. I have a different data.ini based on the post patch SE5a. Maybe a little too much but it sure is fun to fly. I can post it but like I said in the earlier post its pure "fantasy" made by crossing the N28 data with the SE5a FM. edit...On second thought, I'm not going to post it. I think its better to get a good solid FM based on the data so everybody that uses the model will be on the same page. edit...On third thought, I'll give the file to EmlD and let him decide if he wants to use it until something better comes along. Who knows, he may still prefer his instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) OK, i strted to dig me in the finetuning of the FM. Do this values declare or influe the Climb Rate? CLa Lift coefficient due to AOA CD0 Zero-lift drag coefficient CDL Drag coefficient due to lift (induced drag effect) CL0 Lift coefficient at zero angle of attack (AOA) Let us speak about CR This values i have found: N28 = 500 or 370 m/min SPADXIII = 460 m/min S.E.5a = 235 m/min Fokker Dr.1 = 220 m/min But i am not sure about them (most of all about N28 and SPAD) Which climb rates did you know about? Maybe are thease rate unrelevant in this game? so why: on [Top Wing Left] for example ******* Spad ** S.E.5a ** Fokker DVII CLa= ** 0.3098 ** 0.1117 ** 0.1320 CD0= ** 0.0017 ** 0.0009 ** 0.0014 CDL= ** 0.0008 ** 0.0003 ** 0.0006 CL0= ****** ** - ** - ** 0.0023 Any ideas....INI tweaking gurus? Edited January 8, 2007 by EmlD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 8, 2007 The numbers I find are more like: Dr 1 1130ft./min. or 342m/min. N28 855ft./min. or 258m/min. SPAD 394ft./min. or 120m/min. (Wow very slow! That can't be correct) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 8, 2007 This have you seen.... climb rate on too between 1356 and 475 ft/min http://www.airminded.net/n28/n28.html (cheking your FM, done in a while) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 8, 2007 Yes, I've seen that. This is the problem sometimes with Internet information. Some of it is DRASTICALLY different. The 2m/s climb rate for the SPAD taken from a couple of sites seems completely ridiculous. By all accounts the N28 was an excellent performer, hampered only by its tendency to shed its upper wing skin when pulling out of a dive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 8, 2007 Climb rate is accelleration... hence relationship between thrust and mass... where trust is the effect you get out of your prop... Once the plane is flying lift has nothing to do with climb rate... lift is only needed to get it flying and to keep it flying when speed decreases... Tex Yes, I've seen that. This is the problem sometimes with Internet information. Some of it is DRASTICALLY different. The 2m/s climb rate for the SPAD taken from a couple of sites seems completely ridiculous. By all accounts the N28 was an excellent performer, hampered only by its tendency to shed its upper wing skin when pulling out of a dive. Speakin of which... is it possible to rip wings in FE???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 8, 2007 I don't think so. I've tried to rip the wings off the planes in FE without doing so. It one of the things I liked about RB3D...you couldn't just yank your plane around any old way without damaging it. I would also think that factors like CLift at AoA and CDrag at AoA combined with thrust and weight would affect overall clime rate. A poor design that lacked sufficient lift or had high drag at increased AoA wouldn't climb as well as a more efficient wing, IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFM 18 Posted January 8, 2007 TexSpeakin of which... is it possible to rip wings in FE???? I've tried a few times with the Albatros. However, at just over 200 kmh in a vertical dive she'll start to nose up despite full-forward elevators. So, next I went into a vertical spiral dive and that let me keep the nose down and get the airspeed up over 250kmh, then centered ailerons and yanked full aft elevators. There was a lot of "groaning" noise from the wings but I could never get them to depart the airplane. I only experimented with four or five dives, so my "data" are nowhere complete. Still, I've beat the hell out of that airplane and have had no compromise of structural integrity--other than Lewis or Vickers induced! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 9, 2007 There is one thing. There are two nieuports 1. Nieuport 28, Wing area 16qm, empty mass 435 kg 2. Nieuport 28 C.1 Wing area 20qm, empty mass 533 kg am i right? I saw different datas around in internet.... as here, here and here If it is right, number 2 is the one we are working on lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 9, 2007 News! N28.rar updated with additions: 10. Edited FM to N28 native one, need your opinion about it. (Edited with several SE5a Aero Coefficients, i like it!) => thanx Tailspin! 11.Reworked the [FlightControl] section. Nice flight! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 9, 2007 feels VERY nice now... thanks for removig that nasty SPAD stall characteristics.... Now one can feel one of the SE5 characteristics but that is ok.. its the sideways power... so when you barrell roll you actually keep going sideways aafter you have let go of the controlls... No worries though... it is a joy to fly the plane... Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 10, 2007 Tex, I see what you mean by the sideways power comments. Reaction in the yaw axis is a pretty loose. Skids and slips quite a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 10, 2007 Tex, I see what you mean by the sideways power comments. Reaction in the yaw axis is a pretty loose. Skids and slips quite a bit. Ive flown it a bit more and Im still not decided wether I like the side sliping or not. I do guess it is the Cyb (Side force due to sideslip) and Cyp (Side force due to roll rate) ratings that need adjustment and possibly Clb (Side force due to roll rate). Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexander51 3 Posted January 11, 2007 With the latest bitmaps installed in the skin folder, only one side of this aeroplane is showing up textured. How do I fix this, or is this a thing thats yet to be sortted ourt? Keep up the excellent work. I love this plane, EmlD! Well done so far Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 12, 2007 Almost done : All textures done and UVW coordinates applied (LOD 1&2) coming soon 1. Damage nodes with textures 2. third level of detail Thanx! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Tailspin 3 Posted January 12, 2007 Good news EmlD. I'm looking forward to seeing her in all her glory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Flamer50 3 Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Great model EmlD, ,can't wait to fly the finished version! Edited January 12, 2007 by Bwf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hitech1 0 Posted January 12, 2007 Great Plane, Looks Good, Flys Good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 12, 2007 For the first time I actually fought against it and I noticed a HUUUUGE FPS DROP when you get close to it!!!!! Its something you might wana look into. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 12, 2007 (edited) Ive made a few adjustments to the FM... The controll surfaces ARE big on the N28 but imho the controlls are too extream in your FM. Especially the rudder... it has insane rudder effect and virtually no rudder induced drag... roll rate is a bit too wild as well imho... and when you use your rudder to induce roll then its even more insane... So what I did was I calmed down the inputs a bit and increased the drag from use of inputs. Still its a VERY manouverable plane just not THAT insane.. ;) Tex EDIT: Couldnt attach ini file so here it comes as a txt, rename it when you dl it. N28_data.txt Edited January 12, 2007 by TexMurphy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
