Couple of questions about Nieuports

[+peter01 2]

Thanks to Monty, EmID and TexMurphy who have given me permission to do this, I'll be posting alternative FMs for the Nieuports 11, 16, 17 (and a,b,c), 24, 24bis and 28. Thanks guys.

 

Well, "alternative" is probably inaccurate, as they are largely based on Tex's original superb work, just some changes in varying degress to performance, feel, and ai. N28 the least changes, N17 the most.

 

It'll be a few days at least to finish (I started a while ago....its not that easy ), but have a couple of questions.

 

Firstly, with Availability and Start/End Dates for nie.11/16 on one hand and variations of nie.17s on the other. If I set all to "Common" then there will be a lot of Nieups around in missions!! Thought maybe for Nie.17's to make variations same date as basic (mid 1916-late 1917), but set to "Rare". Not sure what to do with nie.11/16.

 

Secondly, now that some of us are skilled at gun variations, are there any more? Eg, variations on the nie.24 (tho not sure this really saw much or any action) or a nie.27 from the nie.24? Is there a difference in the nie.27 to nie.24 model other than guns - my understanding is yes, slightly, perhaps undercarriage, but that shouldn't stop us . If yes, can someone specify how guns be modded - like the nie.17?

Edited October 17, 2007 by peter01

[WarlordATF 1]

Great News!

I have been using your flight models for awhile now and i kinda hoped you would do a set for the Nieuports!

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

the N27 is nearly a N17

with the chanfe that you say

the RFC use in majority with uper gun nieuport

 

hope it can help you

[+christian59 8]

i forgot

 

scan from special Nieuport fighters p2 Windsock

 

and the N27 has always 130hp engine and N17 early (like data we use) have 110hp

 

christian

[gambit168 27]

this might help you peter

[/img]

[+Tailspin 3]

The N27, I believe, had rounded horizontal stabs like the N28's.

 

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_27.html

 

Better description of the differences between 24 and 27.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieuport_27

[+EmlD 3]

Hi, i will try to help you

 

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...amp;#entry70819

 

Check this discussion....

 

Actually N27 looks as N24 (non bis) as Tailspin said - with rounded rudder like N28

 

So, that is only a loadout question, i tried it that time... it didnt work...that time it was a bug with loadouds....

 

or decide, which armament N27 should have, and i will export new LOD for N27,...

 

oh, i remember what was the problem that time....i have no single Levis gun modelled by myself, thatswhy i tried to use one, taken from Montys Nieuports

....tried to install it through loadout, like a 'gunpod'..... i failed....

 

so...i have to model a Levis, if N27 needs it... and export new LOD

 

 

 

 

EmlD

[+Tailspin 3]

Hello EmlD. Thanks for your help. The horizontal stabs are rounded too.

 

"The aircraft was based on the Nieuport 17 and 24 fighters. The 27 incorporated a large plywood vertical tail and a redesigned, rounded horizontal tail to improve stability. Delage additionally rounded the 27's wingtips and ailerons to improve roll rate."

[+EmlD 3]

Ok, Here Images of actual N24 and N24bis.

 

 

 

Should Horiz. Stabs by N27 be rounded as they are by N24 (non bis)?

 

Could you Paint...or show me how should the wing tips be rounded by N27?

 

EmlD

 

EDIT: due to Post #5, wing span and wing area are equal by N24 and N27

Edited October 17, 2007 by EmlD

[+Tailspin 3]

Yes it has the same tail as that N24. I'll see if I can find a profile of the wings.

[+Tailspin 3]

Here you go EmlD.

 

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_27d.html

 

Is there a different N24 model out? Then N24 in my install has the squared horizontal stabs?

[+EmlD 3]

There were 2 from the beginning...

 

N24bis and N24(rounded Horiz. Stab, Rounded Rudder, other FM)

 

 

I, see...tips are not rounded by N27..they are even sharper....

 

EmlD

 

EDIT: I will model N27 wings exactly as on the pic.

And tell me : how should we solve the armament question, there were many different types.... to avoid 100 different N24's and N27's packs in download section, we should try to solve it through loadout as gunpods....

Edited October 17, 2007 by EmlD

[+Tailspin 3]

Hmmmmm....Okie dokie. Apparently the N24 I have installed is not your final version. It looks just like the bis. Sorry about that.

 

I picked a heck of a day to stop sniffing glue.

[+Tailspin 3]

Just saw your edit. My 2 cents. For the 27, one with a Vickers and one with a Lewis for the RFC would be sufficient. Whichever whay that gets done is fine with me.

[+p10ppy 2]

I, see...tips are not rounded by N27..they are even sharper....

 

hmmm may not be that simple

'Nieuport Aces of WW1" (osprey) shows it with rounded (same as the 24)

 

 

tho it appears from this discussion (rather long but with a few pics) to be a different airfoil atleast to the 24...

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft...7-airfoils.html

 

a photo of a 27 showing the tips would be nice... :yes:

 

good to see some old names back :)

Edited October 18, 2007 by p10ppy

[+peter01 2]

There were 2 from the beginning...

 

N24bis and N24(rounded Horiz. Stab, Rounded Rudder, other FM)

I, see...tips are not rounded by N27..they are even sharper....

 

EmlD

 

EDIT: I will model N27 wings exactly as on the pic.

And tell me : how should we solve the armament question, there were many different types.... to avoid 100 different N24's and N27's packs in download section, we should try to solve it through loadout as gunpods....

 

Hey EmID. Welcome back!!

 

That'd be great - everyone loves Nieuports, and yours and Monty's are superb.

 

The Nieuport 27 is a definite must have, and if you can model it from the existing work you have done, all the better. Christian also is good at making gunpods work - already has one with Lewis gunpod on nie.24bis. The Nie.27 would just about complete the Nieuport picture. I'd agree with Tailspin, 2 versions as he described would be sufficient for me....but maybe others have different views?

 

Now what would really complete the picture are the nie.10 (nie.12 similar?), but shouldn't get too greedy , its probably a new project? The only reason I mention this, is that Bort and Laton especially have done a fantastic job with the early war period, and its a strength of FE - no games have had as many early ones, and these would be excellent additions.

 

But, if you have some time, the nie.27 alone is great - and very pleased you are looking at it.

Edited October 18, 2007 by peter01

[+peter01 2]

Thanks WarlordATF, Christian, Gambit. Encouragement and info (usually hard to get) are always welcome.

 

But info does raise some other questions: Should nie.27 have bigger engine (not according to gambit's reference)? Should nie.17bis have a bigger engine than nie.17? And according to gambit's reference, climb for nie.16 is very good - does this seem correct?

 

Not burning issues, but if anyone has views, prefer to get them right or at least using engines that were actually commonly used - many wwi planes were fitted with different engines in various theatres and times, but not going to do different FMs with different versions of engines as well - it'll become too complex, slower to load the game with probably really little benefit. A different model, especially with modelling differences is a different thing, and a couple of different arms combinations for Nieups is good too.......

 

So, any views or preferences?

 

Cheers

Edited October 18, 2007 by peter01

[+Tailspin 3]

hmmm may not be that simple

'Nieuport Aces of WW1" (osprey) shows it with rounded (same as the 24)

 

 

tho it appears from this discussion (rather long but with a few pics) to be a different airfoil atleast to the 24...

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft...7-airfoils.html

 

a photo of a 27 showing the tips would be nice... :yes:

 

good to see some old names back :)

 

 

Just Google Nieuport 27. You will find a few pics of the wing tips although nothing from directly above. They look a little more square to me more than anything. They don't really look like the profile from the drawings in the "mars" link, though.

[+p10ppy 2]

Just Google Nieuport 27. You will find a few pics of the wing tips although nothing from directly above. They look a little more square to me more than anything. They don't really look like the profile from the drawings in the "mars" link, though.

agreed :yes:

 

i note this from the "mars" link also

"Nieuport 27 parts catalog. Not all drawings may be appropriate to the 27." (great catalog )

 

see this pic and info

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/npt27.htm

 

i think some of this is terminolgy too

they are squarer then the Nie17 (that has a dramatic slope/slant)

but more rounded at the back especially

 

anyway any Nie27 will be welcome :yes:

[+Tailspin 3]

Yep. When I saw the page, complete with detailed "period drawings", I thought "Ya can't beat that". Then after your post I looked at the pictures. The drawing shure doesn't seem to be the same as the pictures. Regardless this will be another great addition. Its been a good couple of days. Big thanks to the original modders for taking these projects on.

[+EmlD 3]

Hi, here we go...

 

Nieport 27 is ready... it has wings like here

 

And it has one Vickers on the right side.

 

Texture and damage texture updated....

 

Waiting for FM (TexMurphy or peter01)

 

The loadout (gunpod) question left...

 

EmlD

[Guest Alligator Devil]

I've been working on the N24 cockpit textures.

I drawed a shadow in the windscreen/cockpit glass and it looks better (deeper 3D effect)

I can't upload it since i used Deutschmark skin as basis (some of the cockpit textures are a part of the external textures) and he's not online lately (waiting for his permission)

 

 

Emid can you export again the cockpit lod ? I was trying to get a wood texture for the ammo box but it uses the same metal texture that the struts.

 

Edited October 25, 2007 by Alligator Devil

[+peter01 2]

Good stuff EmID, many thanks for this.

 

I had done an alternative Nieuport FM set, but for pre-Expansion Set Flight Model. Was just waiting for this plane before releasing. But now, the way forward seems to go with the expansion pack.

 

But as i said, not sure, may wait a bit. At least till patch.

 

However, since you have been so great with this, did make the effort to convert the N27 FM (using N24bis 3D model) to the the new flight model - its attached as a N24bis, for feedback.

 

Its a conversion but also using some of the new stuff, and works out quite well, tho different than version it was based on for previous release. Its all so different, this new Flight Model!

 

Stall/spins work well, and you will lose wings and other bits under high Gs.

 

So comments appreciated.

 

If okay, I'll convert to Emid's N27 model.

 

N24bis_data.zip

 

Christian, you did a N24bis with gunpod? Could you post this for me to do in data.ini - may include if EmID can get rid of the Vickers.

Edited October 25, 2007 by peter01

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

here it is

 

hope we can convert this with the pach later

[+peter01 2]

Thanks christian.